Windage Tray:

[Captain D]

Hello gents,

Looking to replace my oil pan gasket here in a few weeks and install a windage tray gasket kit for my 69' Charger's 383 BB. Just curious what do y'all think about them & do you feel that they help extend engine life, etc.? Any issues with the fitment that you encountered along the way? I realize that this may sound like blasphemy, lol, but I'm not all about horsepower (hey, if it helps to add HP in the process, all the better), but my main goal for this Charger is to do anything that I can to help maximize engine health & extend engine life. If this helps, I'm all ears...  

Thank you for any and all input  ,

[A383Wing]

Yer gonna need two pan gaskets and longer oil pan bolts.

I have one on my black 66, plus I have another one to put on the Daytona before the Aero reunion next year

[Captain D]

Thanks man for the tip re: the bolts. A set from Jegs looks to come complete (minus the bolts):

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/502000/10002/-1

Any feedback on this particular item, by chance? In the meantime, I'll scout for the bolts. Oh, before I forget, unsure if this is even relevant or not - but the oil pan I now use is not factory...it's a 6 quart pan. Make any difference, just out of curiosity?

Thanks again,

[Nacho-RT74]

I have mounted with the stock bolts without problems

[green69rt]

Oh, before I forget, unsure if this is even relevant or not - but the oil pan I now use is not factory...it's a 6 quart pan. Make any difference, just out of curiosity?

Thanks again!

Kind of curious about your setup.  With the 6 qt sump did you have to replace the pickup with the pan, seems likely.Now, if the sump is deeper do you use the same dip stick and fill to the same mark?  If the oil level sets lower, then the windage tray may not help much because the oil level already sets lower and further away from the crank.  I seem to remember in my youth that some guys would run deep sump pans with no tray, and then run them a quart low to get those few HP that the tray was supposed to give, don't know if it was true or maybe they were foolish for doing it.

[68CoronetRT]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g2339

No need for a gasket or a separate tray. It's all in 1. I've read very good things about these, and they come in depths for standard stroke and stroked engines. Use your stock oil pan bolts.

I will be doing one of these the next time I drop the pan.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

I have mounted with the stock bolts without problems

I did as well a few times....no problems with stock length bolts on my 440

[c00nhunterjoe]

Oh, before I forget, unsure if this is even relevant or not - but the oil pan I now use is not factory...it's a 6 quart pan. Make any difference, just out of curiosity?

Thanks again!

Kind of curious about your setup.  With the 6 qt sump did you have to replace the pickup with the pan, seems likely.Now, if the sump is deeper do you use the same dip stick and fill to the same mark?  If the oil level sets lower, then the windage tray may not help much because the oil level already sets lower and further away from the crank.  I seem to remember in my youth that some guys would run deep sump pans with no tray, and then run them a quart low to get those few HP that the tray was supposed to give, don't know if it was true or maybe they were foolish for doing it.

Yes you change pickups as well. Same dipstick running a stock 4 qt pan with 3 qts in it at high rpm is asking for oil starvation.

[Captain D]

Thanks gents for the additional replies,

Yeah, the oil pan is a 6 quart unit (couldn't locate a part #). Although I couldn't find one either, I also checked for a part # on the aftermarket dipstick. In measuring, it came to: 22" (handle included is 25.5"). I've always got really good readings when checking both the dipstick and gauges. If it's a 6 quart unit, and I've certainly been running 6 quarts of course, all should be fine. Question is: would it still be worthwhile to run a windage tray though? With this information being said, what are the thoughts with running a windage tray based on this particular set-up? 

As a side note, I then began to think about my transmission pan and dipstick combo. I initially had a stock pan installed. However, because the dang thing had so many waves in it a local transmission shop was shocked that the restorer decided to still use it so instead they installed a new / after-market pan that also fits the Dodge Ram Trucks. It lined up and fits our 727 Torque-flight perfectly with no leakage whatsoever. Anyhow, I found buried in my notes that the original pan held 10 quarts of fluid. However, this new pan is a little deeper and holds 11.5 quarts of fluid. My question here is - even if this new pan is a little deeper holding more fluid, would that affect the reading on the factory stock transmission dipstick when checking it hot and in neutral? The shop didn't think so and I suppose as long as we don't get a high reading with the transmission fluid, we should be okay seeing how I've always read and have been told that it's always best to be a little below the full mark than above it when it comes to the transmission fluid. I measured the dipstick itself and it came to 18" (21.5" with handle) just to make that info available.

Thank you again for your time and insight...

   

[Nacho-RT74]

I have mounted with the stock bolts without problems

I did as well a few times....no problems with stock length bolts on my 440

Well in fact my car got the windage tray from factory, and bolts are the same lenght than cars without it

[green69rt]

Thanks gents for the additional replies,

Yeah, the oil pan is a 6 quart unit (couldn't locate a part #). Although I couldn't find one either, I also checked for a part # on the aftermarket dipstick. In measuring, it came to: 22" (handle included is 25.5"). I've always got really good readings when checking both the dipstick and gauges. If it's a 6 quart unit, and I've certainly been running 6 quarts of course, all should be fine. Question is: would it still be worthwhile to run a windage tray though? With this information being said, what are the thoughts with running a windage tray based on this particular set-up? 

As a side note, I then began to think about my transmission pan and dipstick combo. I initially had a stock pan installed. However, because the dang thing had so many waves in it a local transmission shop was shocked that the restorer decided to still use it so instead they installed a new / after-market pan that also fits the Dodge Ram Trucks. It lined up and fits our 727 Torque-flight perfectly with no leakage whatsoever. Anyhow, I found buried in my notes that the original pan held 10 quarts of fluid. However, this new pan is a little deeper and holds 11.5 quarts of fluid. My question here is - even if this new pan is a little deeper holding more fluid, would that affect the reading on the factory stock transmission dipstick when checking it hot and in neutral? The shop didn't think so and I suppose as long as we don't get a high reading with the transmission fluid, we should be okay seeing how I've always read and have been told that it's always best to be a little below the full mark than above it when it comes to the transmission fluid. I measured the dipstick itself and it came to 18" (21.5" with handle) just to make that info available.

Thank you again for your time and insight...

   

One of the first things I did to the first Charger I had was to install a deep sump trans pan (and a separate trans oil cooler.)  But I did install an extender so that the trans filter set at the bottom of the pan, so I could take advantage of the total depth.  Did you get an extender?  With the deep pan and the stock dip stick, (and if you didn't put in the filter extender,) I would keep the recommended level.  I wouldn't run low and never have.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Dipsticks are correct no matter what pan you put on. The extra oil sits lower. The fill mark is the same regardless of a 4 , 6, or 10 qt pan. Same with trans. You should run the appropriate pickup or filter extender for the oil or trans pan.

[Captain D]

Dipsticks are correct no matter what pan you put on. The extra oil sits lower. The fill mark is the same regardless of a 4 , 6, or 10 qt pan. Same with trans.

Agreed - However, as for the 'filter extender,' 'cooler,' and 'pickup' terminology I'm actually at a loss...unsure what those functions may be. Are they for race applications only or even relevant to street cruisers? While we're on it, can anyone explain / define those points in a nutshell? I gather than the extender just allows the dipstick to get into the oil for a more accurate reading perhaps. Everything on my transmission unit is stock and complete (minus the pan). It was interesting to learn that the deeper pans (both oil and trans. fluid) may help to keep the fluids somewhat cooler seeing how they're being drawn from the bottom of the pans, etc.

Thanks again as I enjoy learning more about this stuff...

[green69rt]

On my old 727 tranny the filter screwed directly to the underside of the valve body, there is no "pickup" like there is for the engine oil.  The pan was shallow and a full level in the tranny meant that the filter was fully submersed in the fluid so this became the "pickup".  When I put a deep sump pan on the filter was not close to the bottom of the pan.  The deep sump pan came with a flange tube.  Take the filter off, screw that tube on in place of the filter then screw the filter to the tube.  This "extended' filter deeper into the fluid.   Sorry for any confusion.

Just looked at Summit and they call it a "filter extension".  

If you look at the picture of this pan you'll see it came with a "filter extension"  some don't.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-10280/overview/

As for a cooler.  Automatic trans come with an external cooler for the transmisson fluid.  On our cars (2 gen Charger) it consisted of a finned tube mounted inside the bottom tank of the radiator.  The fluid was "cooled" by the hot radiator coolant, you can imagine that this was not very cool.  Fine for granny on the way to the corner grocery  but maybe not the best thing for a high performance car.

One of the first things I did on my old car was mount a fully separate finned cooler in from of my radiator.  It looked like a really small AC condenser.  For me I just tubed it in series with the existing cooler.  Some people bypass the existing cooler completely, your choice.  I am of the opinion that anything you can do to help control the temp of the trans fluid is a good thing.  That's why I added the deep sump pan and cooler.

[Captain D]

Many thanks for some info - I checked my trans. pan & there is no drain plug, opening, etc. of any kind whatsoever. If I have to change any filters and/or the fluid, I'll have to drop the pan altogether it would seem. As for the cooling agent, I naturally do have the lines from the trans. unit to the radiator (as you described) on my automatic street cruiser build. Fortunately, my Champion brand aluminum radiator has been phenomenal in keeping stuff cooled. But, I wouldn't mind looking into potential additional methods as you noted to keep the fluid even cooler indeed. One last question (I think, lol) while we're on the topic, how often / many miles would be ideal to change the transmission fluid & internal filters, just out of curiosity?

Thank you again for any and all guidance,

[c00nhunterjoe]

In a stock build with a stock torque converter, the transcooler built into an aluminum radiator should handle the job with no problems. Your package isnt going to build heat to a degree that needs an external cooler. If you do decide to get one, pay the money for a good heavy duty style, not the typical wound tube and fin type. But again, in your case i feel it is wasted money.
  If memory serves, the service manual called for band adjustments every 12,000 miles? John kunkel would be able to rattle the numbers off the top of his head. Pan drops are required for the service. For a street car weekend warrior it could take years to get 12k on them. If you are running a synthetic they could potentially go further as well.
   In all of mine, i run lucas semi synthetic atf. The charger will see annual fluid and band adjustments but i run an 8" converter that will flash at 6,000 rpm and have a kevlar blanket on the tran so i make just a tad more heat then most. In a stock or mild build like the wife's nova, i change trans fluid every other year. Is it overkill? Maybe, but fluid is not that expensive and anything that sits will degrade and collect moisture.

[green69rt]

In a stock build with a stock torque converter, the transcooler built into an aluminum radiator should handle the job with no problems. Your package isnt going to build heat to a degree that needs an external cooler. If you do decide to get one, pay the money for a good heavy duty style, not the typical wound tube and fin type. But again, in your case i feel it is wasted money.
  If memory serves, the service manual called for band adjustments every 12,000 miles? John kunkel would be able to rattle the numbers off the top of his head. Pan drops are required for the service. For a street car weekend warrior it could take years to get 12k on them. If you are running a synthetic they could potentially go further as well.
   In all of mine, i run lucas semi synthetic atf. The charger will see annual fluid and band adjustments but i run an 8" converter that will flash at 6,000 rpm and have a kevlar blanket on the tran so i make just a tad more heat then most. In a stock or mild build like the wife's nova, i change trans fluid every other year. Is it overkill? Maybe, but fluid is not that expensive and anything that sits will degrade and collect moisture.

Probably good advice especially about getting a quality cooler.   And just a last little tidbit, most aftermarket trans pans come with a built-in drain plug. Sure makes it nice to change the fluid and filter rather than just letting it pour out the edges.  You still need to drop the pan to change the filter but it makes the whole process nicer.

[Captain D]

... thanks for the info once more. Sounds like a ATF change + filter change would be ideal at 12k miles for my street / weekend cruiser, you say? Thank you for this info & allowing me to double-check. I'm looking to run it as much as possible before the season is done & it sits all winter, .

[Captain D]

Hi all,

Finally getting around to installing the new windage tray in my 69' Charger. I realize that this is an older post, but before I get after the project, just wanted to double-check a few things if I could:

1.) To remove / re-install the oil pan, is there anything else that should be taken out first to gain easy access other than maybe the steering linkage?
2.) Although it depends on how much scraping of the old gasket, I was just curious about how long (ballpark) would it take to complete this project?

Thank you again for any and all info...

[303 Mopar]

Just remove one side and loosen the other to swing the link out of the way.  Drop the pan, inspect the oil for shiny sparkles, clean it up, flatten the bolt holes,  install the new gaskets/windage tray, button up the new pan by cross tightening the bolts, reattached the steering link, install a new oil filter, drop in some new oil and done. Should oil be a couple hour max.

[Captain D]

Thank you for your tip! Much appreciated, and fantastic - all I needed to know  !