Do you ever think about how different it is to drive our cars vs new cars?

[375instroke]

I can't stand new cars.  If I was to get something more modern, it'd probably be a '70 or '71 Challenger, but that's as new as I'll go for a daily driver.  The race cars are newer, but that's because I'm not about to destroy something I like on the track.  That makes you uncompetitive.

[Kern Dog]

JR is right. I have many upgrades in mine as well and my alignment has over 4 degrees of Caster....But the steering from center is not good. It is surely the weak link.

[GreenMachine]

Yup. I've got fully adjustible SPC upper control arms, a good alignment, nitto 555s, up sized front and rear sway bars, adjustable shocks, fresh steering column coupler, and more.

(Aside from the box) I'm happy with the handling and chassis now. it's predictable, and neutral in corners.

My box has been adjusted to get all the possible slack out, and doesn't leak or anything. It's in good condition.

But there's still that on center dead spot that every old Mopar ive ever driven has, almost no road feel, 16 to 1 gear ratio (?), and lack of communication to the front tires. I know about the modification to reduce power steering pressure, but I don't want to do that since I have alot of caster already and steering effort is already higher than normal.

If the aftermarket would come out with a bolt in subframe that kept the torsion bars, but allowed rack and pinion with no geometry issues,  I'd be perfectly happy.

I think I'm going to swap in a smaller diameter Nardi steering wheel, and weld up the kframe next and see what (perceived) improvement they make.

I had a smaller diameter steering wheel (14"?) with a parts store power steering box and new ball joints/poly bushings, and mine handled pretty good and was enjoyable to drive. I, however, like plenty of steering boost.

[cdr]

Mine drives like a new car 

[John_Kunkel]

A new Yugo?

[Challenger340]

A new Yugo?

Hey John just curious here ?
when was the last time you personally drove a 1968, '69, or 1970 2nd Gen Charger equipped with the R/T S15 Suspension Pkg intact and in good order on the Highway ?

I mean just say'in...
if we are chipping in with our opinions comparing "old vrs new", it's nice to know what we're comparing to for the experiences related ?

I'll go first,
my earlier posts preferring my original Un-restored '69 Charger R/T SE on the Mountain Hwys at 65-70mph(and it's passing capabilities), are compared to my 2014 Silverado 5.3L, and a 2018 Jeep Renegade North Turbo 4 Banger.
Hands down for that terrain the Charger excels, very tight & quiet to drive, comfy, and handles just "tits" with the aforementioned superior passing lane.
That said,
sitting in traffic, bumper to bumper, parking, wouldn't think of anything but A/C and Superior music of both of the newer units.

[cdr]

A new Yugo?

No LMBO !!! my car does have a Rack & pinion set up that works AWESOME.

[JR]

You've got rack and pinion cbr?

What kind? I would like to hear the details on that.

[alfaitalia]

Not all modern (ish) cars have rack and pinion..so a steering box can be made to feel mordern(ish) and handle ok. My Grand Cherokee had a steering box...not that handling really comes in to it in that case but it feels fine. And my wife's 99 SLK 230 also has a steering box...which to be honest I was amazed to find the first time I climbed underneath her! But ultimately an r and p steering system will always have better feel (especially around the centre) than a box..probably the main reason that 99 percent of new cars have them.

As far as the new v old thing....well there is no comparison. Fifty years of developments on cars mean that an old car won't be better to drive (like for like) than any modern equivalent in any measurable way. Just like anything else..time marches on and technology improves. But it's not all about what can be measured....you cant measure that feeling of pride as people stop and point at your classics...especially if you build it up yourself. You cant measure those old car smells and sounds either. So at the end of the day you can't really compare old too new. They both have there advantages....and I want both for that reason.
As for those saying that  you might roll back in to someone if you have a four speeder and they park too close...well I had to laugh. Blaming someone else for your lack of clutch control on a hill start! About 75 percent of all cars sold in the UK are manual transmission and is built down South..I don't even think about rolling back in my manual cars (which is all of them since the Jeep went)...old or new cars. In a congested country like mine there will nearly always be someone stopped 6 inches behind you!

[timmycharger]

Not all modern (ish) cars have rack and pinion..so a steering box can be made to feel mordern(ish) and handle ok. My Grand Cherokee had a steering box...not that handling really comes in to it in that case but it feels fine. And my wife's 99 SLK 230 also has a steering box...which to be honest I was amazed to find the first time I climbed underneath her! But ultimately an r and p steering system will always have better feel (especially around the centre) than a box..probably the main reason that 99 percent of new cars have them.

As far as the new v old thing....well there is no comparison. Fifty years of developments on cars mean that an old car won't be better to drive (like for like) than any modern equivalent in any measurable way. Just like anything else..time marches on and technology improves. But it's not all about what can be measured....you cant measure that feeling of pride as people stop and point at your classics...especially if you build it up yourself. You cant measure those old car smells and sounds either. So at the end of the day you can't really compare old too new. They both have there advantages....and I want both for that reason.
As for those saying that  you might roll back in to someone if you have a four speeder and they park too close...well I had to laugh. Blaming someone else for your lack of clutch control on a hill start! About 75 percent of all cars sold in the UK are manual transmission and is built down South..I don't even think about rolling back in my manual cars (which is all of them since the Jeep went)...old or new cars. In a congested country like mine there will nearly always be someone stopped 6 inches behind you!

  Get over yourself there Sterling Moss, glad you are the master of clutch control.  We also have congested cities in the US, I was just pointing out that people have no common courtesy when you are driving a classic..

[alfaitalia]

Yeah...fair enough , it did come across a bit aggressive when I re-read it. Sorry!

[b5blue]

  Well having just returned from a nice road test after having installed or changed out the last few new parts needed I can say I don't think about it. I don't want or need a newer car. 

[alfaitalia]

I do about 20,000 miles a year....which is nothing for you guys I'm guessing but higher than the UK average of about 12k. I would not want to be doing that in any of the classics I've previously owned....none of which were US cars by the way. I'd rather do those on my 50 plus to the gallon AC equipped 2.0 170 brake diesel 141,000 mile 2009 Alfa 159. A car with real character and sure to be a future classic.

[INTMD8]

As for those saying that  you might roll back in to someone if you have a four speeder and they park too close...well I had to laugh. Blaming someone else for your lack of clutch control on a hill start!

Haha, no problem here as well but can still be annoying.  I like to intentionally roll back a few inches just to freak them out 

https://vimeo.com/83192473#t=1m30s

[John_Kunkel]

Hey John just curious here ?
when was the last time you personally drove a 1968, '69, or 1970 2nd Gen Charger equipped with the R/T S15 Suspension Pkg intact and in good order on the Highway ?

I've had several and, yes, they handle nice compared to a C-barge.

When was the last time you drove a newer LX-body RT or SRT? If you see a comparison, we live on different planets.

[440]

Hill starts in San Francisco with a 4speed Charger  
Throw in a bigger cam and a heavy cluch    

[Challenger340]

Hey John just curious here ?
when was the last time you personally drove a 1968, '69, or 1970 2nd Gen Charger equipped with the R/T S15 Suspension Pkg intact and in good order on the Highway ?

I've had several and, yes, they handle nice compared to a C-barge.

When was the last time you drove a newer LX-body RT or SRT? If you see a comparison, we live on different planets.

You didn't answer my question ?
I didn't ask if you had ever owned or driven one back in 1982 ?

I asked, so we may reference comparisons offered....
"when was the last time you personally drove a 1968, '69, or 1970 2nd Gen Charger equipped with the R/T S15 Suspension Pkg intact and in good repair on the Highway ?"

But to answer your question, a 2011 SRT8 buddy owns 2 weeks ago for me. Passenger, and the I drove.
NEAT car, and a blast to drive   
But it's a completely different genre more akin to a video game experience for me compared to my '69 R/T SE ? The drone of the 4 BBL, the exhaust note, and to tell you the honest truth the entire musclecar genre ? Mine's in REALLY good, solid, No rattles, UN-restored, tight & quiet to drive condition. It's a pleasure to drive and handles just fine on the highway.('60's Mopar steering feel notwithstanding)

And to put it bluntly about the SRT8 ? As Neat as it is....
NOBODY noticed nor cared as we went by in the SRT8 ? And we probably passed a few others along the way ? and we never noticed them either !

[John_Kunkel]

So, your comparison is based on the need to be noticed? Noted.

[charger_fan_4ever]

havent got my charger on the road yet. In meantime bought a 68 beaumont Sd 396.(basically a 68 chevelle ss 396)
It has factory powersteering,manual drum brakes.

Driving down the road im impressed how well the steering is. So much feel of control of the steering. Turns super easy. Easier than the wifes 2012 rav 4 or my old matrix or 2500 ram.

The front suspension is not to stiff not too loose handles corners and bumps great. Has an aftermarket front sway bar seems to really help. The rear has new cargo springs and shocks with oem style shocks. Going over bumps the rear feels kinda all over the place. Need to do something here. MAybe factory control arm bushings are toast or the arms just have give to them.

The brakes. wow we wont talk about those. Lets just say ive gathered almost everything to put on power front disks. Scary stuff lol

My brother has a 71 chevelle wagon with a small block 350. WOW what a ride. Drives better than anything i ever been in. Dont feel any bumps and handles pretty good.

Disclaimer: im talking about driving at 60MPH or less on country roads. Im sure at top end speeds(not in a straight line) id much rather my old foxbody mustang.

[Challenger340]

So, your comparison is based on the need to be noticed? Noted.

Nope, but if that's all you got from my post then so be it.
but I did notice,
your sidestepping because you still can't answer the question ?

So the truth be known,
1.) you do NOT currently own a 2nd Charger
2.) you have NOT owned a 2nd Gen Charger in many decades
3.) you have NOT driven any 2nd Charger of any kind since 1982,
4.) you NEVER did drive an S15 Pkg. equipped 2nd Gen Charger even 35 years ago.

Thank You for your opinion on how 2nd Gen Charger's drive compared to your 2008 Charger... Noted

[c00nhunterjoe]

While i cant speak for john, i had a 69 big block 4 speed charger with factory rt suspension and a 2007 rt charger at the same time. Prior to putting frame connectors in the 69, it was a chore to corner with. Wide wide tires on front and rear you could literally feel the car twist in hard aggressive turns on windy back roads at speed. Adding frame connectors was night and day on the same roads. At that point the car was a blast to abuse. You had to work for it as it is obviously all mechanical and thus all driver.
   The 07 on the same roads was a different car and different style machine. If you left all the stability control on, a beginner could probably outrun the 69. My 07 was not stock, it was a 12 second car and a head turner everywhere i went. It did corner like it was on rails.
    The same roads i had to muscle through in the 69 were taken at higher speeds with 1 hand on the wheel in the 07. They are 2 completely different cars. The way they make power, the way they corner, the way they accerate and brake. They are 2 different machines and rightly so with 50 years between them.
  Now, turn all the bells and whistles off in the 07 and you really go for a ride. Its fun with stability on, but when its off, the real fun began. You quickly forgot it had 4 doors and weighed 4500 lbs. You could walk the ass end through turns on command, the nag1 slapping and holding gears, breaking loose on shifts. It started to feel raw like the 69. You had to work for it then. Its alot of car to muscle but man was it fun to drive. 
   So i guess what im trying to say is i love my 69, i would never give it up for anything. Dodge got it right when they put those cars together. It doesnt take much for them to hug the road and corner like a champ. I drive it everywhere all the time. But 50 years later dodge nailed it with the lx platform. They took a family sedan and gave it teeth. It does everything the 69 does but better. And it should. Its got 50 years of tech in it. I love driving both.


   

[jefferson]

I finally got a chance to sit in my charger today, start her up and just sit in the seat for a good 10 minutes while she was on the hoist, still with no wheels as waiting for new brake parts etc, i can say from driving a modern car to going to my charger, IT FEELS way different,  not sure how to explain it, the charger is big, roomy and feels intimidating if that makes sense, just starting her up and sitting inside, feels intimidating, honestly just feels like pure car, no safety hahaha, i love her, but hey this is going from driving a brand new toyota camry to a 68 charger lol.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Both of my 69s now have subframe connectors, 17x8 fronts and big sway bars.     Previously Betty had 15x7 fronts.

The ride quality suffered a bit going to 17s but the better handling more than made up for it.    Betty has a Firm Feel stage 2 box that doesn't really do anything for me over the stock reman box in Sinnamon.      My opinion is that the subframe connectors and a big front sway bar are the keys to a decent handling car... but the 17s really make it shine.

I'm quite satisfied going wherever in either.    They fit me well.    I'm just not that comfortable going all over because I get panic attacks when around in traffic with them.   

But my daily is now my 14 Cherokee Trailhawk - winner hands down for comfort and all.   I start it up, set the climate control on 69, put on the XM radio and I'm good to go.

[green69rt]

I finally got a chance to sit in my charger today, start her up and just sit in the seat for a good 10 minutes while she was on the hoist, still with no wheels as waiting for new brake parts etc, i can say from driving a modern car to going to my charger, IT FEELS way different,  not sure how to explain it, the charger is big, roomy and feels intimidating if that makes sense, just starting her up and sitting inside, feels intimidating, honestly just feels like pure car, no safety hahaha, i love her, but hey this is going from driving a brand new toyota camry to a 68 charger lol.

When I started this thread, I thought I would get a lot of discussion about handling and reliability and that happened.  That is part of the experience but I was looking for something else.  Jefferson nailed it for me.  Maybe I should call it attitude or expectations or something.     Still looking forward to the day I can take my car on the road for the first time in ten years, then I'll have something to compare.  Anyway, still an interesting discussion and thanks to all for chiming in.  One thing that came out was the wide range of cars you folks own.  Lot's of folks mix it up pretty radically and still like both modern and vintage.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I finally got a chance to sit in my charger today, start her up and just sit in the seat for a good 10 minutes while she was on the hoist, still with no wheels as waiting for new brake parts etc, i can say from driving a modern car to going to my charger, IT FEELS way different,  not sure how to explain it, the charger is big, roomy and feels intimidating if that makes sense, just starting her up and sitting inside, feels intimidating, honestly just feels like pure car, no safety hahaha, i love her, but hey this is going from driving a brand new toyota camry to a 68 charger lol.

When I started this thread, I thought I would get a lot of discussion about handling and reliability and that happened.  That is part of the experience but I was looking for something else.  Jefferson nailed it for me.  Maybe I should call it attitude or expectations or something.     Still looking forward to the day I can take my car on the road for the first time in ten years, then I'll have something to compare.  Anyway, still an interesting discussion and thanks to all for chiming in.  One thing that came out was the wide range of cars you folks own.  Lot's of folks mix it up pretty radically and still like both modern and vintage.

Well my 69 is leaning towards the radical side for most but i still drive it all the time. To make it a true "daily driver" i would have to change alot and i like it the way it is. Slicks, 4.88s and 750 lb spring pressures dont go well with highway driving around here. Other then that its comfortable to drive. Ac would be a nice touch but i dont want the extra weight or hp loss. Thats what my actual daily driver is for. A 2006 2500 chevy.