Ac issues, pls help

[euroZ06]

Hi,

So its been a hot summer and i decided to get my ac system working.
I went to a shop, and when we started to fill the system, we could hear it leaking from the compressor area. More specifically, when u turn the wheel/clutch assembly, you could hear the hissing sound changing. The shop couldnt tell me what exactly was hissing.

I went to a local oreylleys and they sell the compressor for $160, but the clutches are separate and are another $120.

The question i have is this: do i need to buy both items or would i need just the compressor?

Also, since clutches and compressor are not assembled, is there a specific procedure to assemble them?

[Daytona R/T SE]

It would help the members respond if we knew what kind of car you are working on...

66-74 Dodge Charger?

AMC Gremlin?

Yugo?

Or...

Worst of all possibilities...

A Chevy?  

[euroZ06]

It would help the members respond if we knew what kind of car you are working on...

66-74 Dodge Charger?

AMC Gremlin?

Yugo?

Or...

Worst of all possibilities...

A Chevy?  

Oh sorry, its the best of them all, 68 charger!!!

383 though... if that matters.

[Daytona R/T SE]

It would help the members respond if we knew what kind of car you are working on...

66-74 Dodge Charger?

AMC Gremlin?

Yugo?

Or...

Worst of all possibilities...

A Chevy?  

Oh sorry, its the best of them all, 68 charger!!!

383 though... if that matters.

👍

Clutches rarely go out, but I've replaced a few.

Here goes:

Remove the single bolt in the front center of the clutch pulley.

Remove the belts.

Stuff a pry bar behind the clutch wherever you can get some leverage.

Smack the prybar with the palm of your hand.

Hard.

[euroZ06]

It would help the members respond if we knew what kind of car you are working on...

66-74 Dodge Charger?

AMC Gremlin?

Yugo?

Or...

Worst of all possibilities...

A Chevy?  

Oh sorry, its the best of them all, 68 charger!!!

383 though... if that matters.

👍

Clutches rarely go out, but I've replaced a few.

Here goes:

Remove the single bolt in the front center of the clutch pulley.

Remove the belts.

Stuff a pry bar behind the clutch wherever you can get some leverage.

Smack the prybar with the palm of your hand.

Hard.

Ok, cool, that is to take the clutch off. So if i understand correctly, my problem of leaking/hissing is coming from the compressor? So i should just buy that piece and not buy the clutches?

As far as re-installing the clutches, any special tricks to it?

[Daytona R/T SE]

It would help the members respond if we knew what kind of car you are working on...

66-74 Dodge Charger?

AMC Gremlin?

Yugo?

Or...

Worst of all possibilities...

A Chevy?  

Oh sorry, its the best of them all, 68 charger!!!

383 though... if that matters.

👍

Clutches rarely go out, but I've replaced a few.

Here goes:

Remove the single bolt in the front center of the clutch pulley.

Remove the belts.

Stuff a pry bar behind the clutch wherever you can get some leverage.

Smack the prybar with the palm of your hand.

Hard.

Ok, cool, that is to take the clutch off. So if i understand correctly, my problem of leaking/hissing is coming from the compressor? So i should just buy that piece and not buy the clutches?

As far as re-installing the clutches, any special tricks to it?

Clutches don't leak freon, so as long as it's engaging when you turn the ac on with the engine running, you're good.

As far as putting it back on, line it all back up( I think the shaft is keyed) and carefully draw it back on with the bolt.

Your compressor may just need some new seals, but I've never had one of those apart.

Classic auto air can rebuild it.


And...

I suggest you find a different shop to work on your A/C.

[John_Kunkel]

No need to rebuild the compressor, the seal is fairly easy to replace after the clutch is removed. The FSM will guide you.

https://www.classicindustries.com/product/md646747.html

[euroZ06]

It would help the members respond if we knew what kind of car you are working on...

66-74 Dodge Charger?

AMC Gremlin?

Yugo?

Or...

Worst of all possibilities...

A Chevy?  

Oh sorry, its the best of them all, 68 charger!!!

383 though... if that matters.

👍

Clutches rarely go out, but I've replaced a few.

Here goes:

Remove the single bolt in the front center of the clutch pulley.

Remove the belts.

Stuff a pry bar behind the clutch wherever you can get some leverage.

Smack the prybar with the palm of your hand.

Hard.

Ok, cool, that is to take the clutch off. So if i understand correctly, my problem of leaking/hissing is coming from the compressor? So i should just buy that piece and not buy the clutches?

As far as re-installing the clutches, any special tricks to it?

Clutches don't leak freon, so as long as it's engaging when you turn the ac on with the engine running, you're good.

As far as putting it back on, line it all back up( I think the shaft is keyed) and carefully draw it back on with the bolt.

Your compressor may just need some new seals, but I've never had one of those apart.

Classic auto air can rebuild it.


And...

I suggest you find a different shop to work on your A/C.

Ok, the replacement is under way! Thank you for ur advices.

I do have a question, so it says i need to add some special oil (which i wasnt aware of). It says it has 3 oucnes and total needs to be 10 (from what i found out). The stucker is on the back port, but i was wondering if i could add it from the front port. Id like to put everything together tonight and just buy the oil and add it tomorrow.

Also, the passenger side bracket seems to be hitting my air cleaner when installed, which prevents it from sitting flush (never knew that until i removed it and saw the cleaner drop half an inch). Can i just forgo that bracket?

[Bronzedodge]

If you're talking about the RV2 compressor, I would not remove any brackets.  The nature of the reciprocating design imparts a lot of motion.  They designed it that way for a reason.  If there's any vibration over the design tolerance, you'll stress o ring seals, belts, the remaining bolts, etc.  Factory air cleaners shouldn't interfere.

Also, as far as removing the pulley and clutch- there's an easy way.  The Pitts Electro-Loc clutch have three rivets on the front hub.  remove the locking bolt and insert a 5/8"-11 x 2 1/2" bolt into the front center of the clutch pulley.  Tighten the bolt untill the clutch is pushed off.  Three small screws hold on the electromagnet, remove those and you should be able to R & R the shaft seal parts John Kunkel referenced.  If I'm remembering correctly.

Bronzedodge
(big fan of the factory A/C)

[euroZ06]

If you're talking about the RV2 compressor, I would not remove any brackets.  The nature of the reciprocating design imparts a lot of motion.  They designed it that way for a reason.  If there's any vibration over the design tolerance, you'll stress o ring seals, belts, the remaining bolts, etc.  Factory air cleaners shouldn't interfere.

Also, as far as removing the pulley and clutch- there's an easy way.  The Pitts Electro-Loc clutch have three rivets on the front hub.  remove the locking bolt and insert a 5/8"-11 x 2 1/2" bolt into the front center of the clutch pulley.  Tighten the bolt untill the clutch is pushed off.  Three small screws hold on the electromagnet, remove those and you should be able to R & R the shaft seal parts John Kunkel referenced.  If I'm remembering correctly.

Bronzedodge
(big fan of the factory A/C)

Tha ks for feedback. The passenger side bracket def interferes with factory air cleaner. Everything seems aligned on the bracket side. Perhaps a wrong bracket? Or wrong carb? All seems tight without that bracket. All the other brackets are tight.

I didnt have problems with the clutch, all went smooth.

What about the oil? Can i feel it from the front? The sticker was on the back port, so it makes me question it.

[Pete in NH]

The oil needed will depend on the refrigerant in the system. If the original R-12 is still in use you need 500-525 mineral A/C oil. if the system has been converted to R-134A the oil can be either PAG or Ester based oil. You would need to know which was used. If you don't know, you would need to flush out and drain out the oil and start fresh with a known oil. When systems are converted to R-134A they are supposed to be labeled with type of refrigerant and oil but, almost no one does that so it leads to this kind of problem. To check oil level there is a plug on the left lower side of the RV-2 compressor. See the factory service manual on making a small dip stick in this plug hole to check oil level. The system must be empty of refrigerant to do this.

[euroZ06]

The system has been converted to r134. The new compressor came with a sticker on the back that says it has 3 ounces in it. On summit i read that it needs 10 ounces total.

My question is whether i can add oil via front port? The sticker was on the back port

[Nacho-RT74]

is just the seal posted by JK. Can be replaced with compressor in car. Just need to loose belts, remove pulley and front cover. This will let you exposed the crank bearing. Fairly easy to install ALTHOUGHT the seal surface is really delicated. NEVER touch the graphite tracks because will get damaged. Better make it a a AC shop just because they know how to handle it

BTW, the seal is the same than the square belly button York compressor ( not the cover O ring thought )

[euroZ06]

Guys, i already replaced the compressor.

Can i add oil through the front port?

[Pete in NH]

You would add oil through the plug hole on the left side that I mentioned for the dip stick measurement of oil level. This puts the oil in the compressor sump where it belongs. What kind of oil are you going to add? Does the new compressor state what oil in in it, PAG or Ester? They really can't be mixed. 10 ounces is the total factory fill for an empty system. It would be best to flush the system of old oil and replace the receiver/drier.

[krops cars]

I wouldn't say flush the system with a seal leak. Receiver drier good idea. A new compressor if it does not come with oil just add what it says on the sticker. If you can come up with a vacuum pump it is a real good idea to pull a vacuum. This lets you know if you have any other leaks and pulls moisture out of system.

[John_Kunkel]

The system has been converted to r134. The new compressor came with a sticker on the back that says it has 3 ounces in it. On summit i read that it needs 10 ounces total.

My question is whether i can add oil via front port? The sticker was on the back port

Yeah, but 3 ounces of what? I'd remove the sump and drain all of the oil and then refill with ester oil.

[euroZ06]

Guys, i added the oil yesterday before responses were posted! I think i did it wrong!!! I added it through the front hole (where the coolant line connects. Only about 4 ounces went in (the sticker said it was prefilled with 3).

Did i add to the wrong place? Do i need to flush it???

[Nacho-RT74]

what about if you wait for the answers before proceed? that's why you are asking... don't you? LOL, just saying

[euroZ06]

Thank u for your response. So did i in fact do something wrong?


I also have another problem: as we were filling ac and got the car started (to get ac to blow), i saw smoke coming out of the clutch area. At first i thought maybe it was the oil that spilled a bit during my oil fill, but even after 5 minutes it was still smoking. After we were done filling up the ac (the temp gauge showing 45f at the went), i turned off the car and again looked at the clutches and they were smoking... i stuck our temp gauge in there and went up to 270f (the compressor was not that hot, just standard temp). Should i take it all apart and see whats going on?

[Nacho-RT74]

I think there is not anything wrong about fill the oil throught that hole, just not the right way to do it having the provision for it. Is just like fill the oil throught the spark plug hole on engine, sooner or later will get the sump.

Can't tell about what's going on with that smoke.

[euroZ06]

Good afternoon, 

Here is an update: the smoke was a gasket that got burned of, it is the gasket that is inside the clutch (i just took the clutch off and noticed it there all burned). I reinstalled the clutch without the gasket, to try and see if ac works. Drove the car around, and ac seemed to work perfectly! I was so excited. However, water was leaking in the pssenger footwell compartment, so i figured its prob evap line, but peft this project to another time and parked the car.

Fast forward two weeks to this weekend, i took the car out in super heat, and was all excited to use my freshly rebuilt ac, but my excitement was very short lived. As soon as i turn on the ac, i hear heavy knocking coming from the compressor. It is almost the same knock u get as from a bad engine. When i turn off ac, no noise, as soon as i engage it, heavy knock...

Please advise   i do recall that the compressor came with 3 ounces of oil (what it said in the manual), and i was only able to add maybe another 4 ounces... but doesnt seem like it should be affected that much by it, but who knows.

[John_Kunkel]

The front refrigerant port on the compressor is the discharge, by pouring the oil in there, none got into the sump where the lubrication is needed and the parts in there are likely destroyed. The aluminum connecting rods in the compressor ride directly on the steel crankshaft, no bearing inserts like an engine, so lubrication is critical.

The compressor clutch is metal-to-metal, there is no conventional friction material. If the clutch got that hot it is because it was slipping, either because it's worn out or the compressor is binding up.

[euroZ06]

The front refrigerant port on the compressor is the discharge, by pouring the oil in there, none got into the sump where the lubrication is needed and the parts in there are likely destroyed. The aluminum connecting rods in the compressor ride directly on the steel crankshaft, no bearing inserts like an engine, so lubrication is critical.

The compressor clutch is metal-to-metal, there is no conventional friction material. If the clutch got that hot it is because it was slipping, either because it's worn out or the compressor is binding up.

Well crap... i do want to clarify: the instructions that came with the compressor were generic and not for that specific compressor. The sticker that said to add oil, was on the back port (which i assumed would be the same thing is putting it in front port). The manual did say the compressor has 3 ounces of oil, the first time i ran the compressor, it was only 30 minutes, and there was no knocking and ac worked. Should i try to take the compressor off, drain all oil out of it and add it in appropriate fill place? Id like

On the clutch part: clutch engages with no problem. The gasket was in the back of the clutch. When u take off that bolt that holds the clutch in, pull out the clutch, and its all the way in the back of the clutch. Not even sure if it is a gasket, but whatever burned off was that and there were leftovers wht what seemed like a gasket. After the initial burning/heating, and my clean up, the clutch seems to work well and there is no extra heat. 

[Pete in NH]

There is little doubt that the compressor has been destroyed internally from lack of oil in the sump. The compressor is very likely beginning to lock up and the clutch has been slipping and over heating, it too needs to be replaced. There is no gasket material in the clutch. What you likely removed was the seal material on the clutch bearing shield. If this material burnt the clutch bearing has been overheated to the point it has been destroyed.

You need to replace both the clutch and compressor. It would be a good idea to take a step back and read the shop manual carefully on how to service these systems. Not to do so will get even more expensive than things already have.

[GT]

Unfortunately i would agree with the above post.  To add, it is also "possible" that crud/debris/metal shavings/etc. have traveled through the system as well.  This means you will need to flush the entire system and replace the dryer in addition to replacing the compressor/clutch, etc.  The crud can get into the evaporator and condenser both...  If it is not properly flushed, evacuated/etc. you'll just be doing it again...

Might be time to consider a complete system replacement with aftermarket...

[John_Kunkel]

Well crap... i do want to clarify: the instructions that came with the compressor were generic and not for that specific compressor. The sticker that said to add oil, was on the back port (which i assumed would be the same thing is putting it in front port).

Another example of mayhem that could be avoided by reading the FSM.

[euroZ06]

Thanks all for ur advices. I took the car to a shop to get some other work done, and ordered new compressor and new clutch. The system was flushed, everything was professionally installed and seems to work fine. Doesnt blow too cold, before it blew colder. But at least it works...

Another issue, that the shop wasnt tagged to do arose. The water (condensate) drips on the passenger floor mat. Like A LOT. It comes from the area of a metal thingy thats above the foot well.. not sure what it is, its like cylindrical. Id be  happy to take the car to the shop again for this (as others have suggested, since my skills are crap), but the last visit took 3 weeks to grt headers installed... i feel like with this issue, id get my car back when the snow is on the ground. One of the reasons i tried to avoid taking it to a shop...

[VegasCharger]

So you're A/C isn't blowing cold and the condensation drips in the cab?? Sounds like the shop is inept and should take responsibility of their work to correct it.

 

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Thanks all for ur advices. I took the car to a shop to get some other work done, and ordered new compressor and new clutch. The system was flushed, everything was professionally installed and seems to work fine. Doesnt blow too cold, before it blew colder. But at least it works...

Another issue, that the shop wasnt tagged to do arose. The water (condensate) drips on the passenger floor mat. Like A LOT. It comes from the area of a metal thingy thats above the foot well.. not sure what it is, its like cylindrical. Id be  happy to take the car to the shop again for this (as others have suggested, since my skills are crap), but the last visit took 3 weeks to grt headers installed... i feel like with this issue, id get my car back when the snow is on the ground. One of the reasons i tried to avoid taking it to a shop...

Did they do any work to the a/c box or just the compressor? Could be that the a/c box is not fully seated to the firewall and the drains are not in the correct place. Loosen the bolts on the firewall and try adjusting the whole a/c box so the drain spouts exit outside the car rather than on the floor.

[euroZ06]

Thanks, will try that.

The components under the dash seem almost new. The ac blows cold air, but not ice cold as i imagined.