Holley Sniper EFI

[303 Mopar]

The 505 stroker in the Charger has been battling vapor lock at times over the past year or so, and I've been watching and researching all of the EFI offerings.  I considered port injection but could not find a set up that would clear the hood since it slopes down toward the front.  I finally pulled the trigger on the Holley Sniper EFI.

All parts including the Holley tank with in-tank pump, new braided lines with AN fittings, Holley EFI distributor with MSD box to be able to have the system adjust the timing and the Sniper unit with touch screen totaled about $2k. Although I think I could have installed it myself, I had a local speed shop who installs these EFI units all the time and has a dyno do it.  He even did a dyno run with the 850 Proform carb before converting it to get a base line number.

The overall HP and TQ difference was minimal which came in around 441 hp and 530 tq at the wheels.  There was also an 20 degree increase in ambient temp when we ran the EFI to near 100 degrees, plus I'm near 5300' elevation.  Since it is a BB stroker, I'm not concerned about MPH but I'm assuming there is some gain.  However the biggest benefit so far beyond a switch of the key and it fires every time, is the instant response from the throttle.

https://youtu.be/R2F_d9_NoZY

[justcruisin]

Nice, always pleasing after laying down the cash to get a great result. I'm a carb man myself but I can't argue about the benefits an EFI can deliver, good vid too, I was waiting for the smoke scene but.

[Dino]

Any fuel smell with the Sniper system? That's my main issue with carbs. Also, any mechanical noise from under the hood?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Any fuel smell with the Sniper system? That's my main issue with carbs. Also, any mechanical noise from under the hood?

You will always have an exhaust smell unless you put cats on it regardless of the fuel delivery type.

[Dino]

Any fuel smell with the Sniper system? That's my main issue with carbs. Also, any mechanical noise from under the hood?

You will always have an exhaust smell unless you put cats on it regardless of the fuel delivery type.

True, but it's the fuel smell coming from under the hood that gets me.

[c00nhunterjoe]

There shouldnt be any raw fuel odor under the hood. 

[green69rt]

I finally pulled the trigger on the Holley Sniper EFI.

All parts including the Holley tank with in-tank pump, new braided lines with AN fittings, Holley EFI distributor with MSD box to be able to have the system adjust the timing and the Sniper unit with touch screen totaled about $2k.

Did the tank come with a new sender?

[cdr]

I finally pulled the trigger on the Holley Sniper EFI.

All parts including the Holley tank with in-tank pump, new braided lines with AN fittings, Holley EFI distributor with MSD box to be able to have the system adjust the timing and the Sniper unit with touch screen totaled about $2k.

Did the tank come with a new sender?

they are different than the stock sender.
you have to order it.

[cdr]

1

[303 Mopar]

Any fuel smell with the Sniper system? That's my main issue with carbs. Also, any mechanical noise from under the hood?

You will always have an exhaust smell unless you put cats on it regardless of the fuel delivery type.

True, but it's the fuel smell coming from under the hood that gets me.

No fuel smell at all.

[303 Mopar]

I finally pulled the trigger on the Holley Sniper EFI.

All parts including the Holley tank with in-tank pump, new braided lines with AN fittings, Holley EFI distributor with MSD box to be able to have the system adjust the timing and the Sniper unit with touch screen totaled about $2k.

Did the tank come with a new sender?

they are different than the stock sender.
you have to order it.

Correct, I ordered the new tank with in-tank pump and new sending unit already installed.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Any fuel smell with the Sniper system? That's my main issue with carbs. Also, any mechanical noise from under the hood?

You will always have an exhaust smell unless you put cats on it regardless of the fuel delivery type.

True, but it's the fuel smell coming from under the hood that gets me.

No fuel smell at all.

Your exhaust has no odor? Thats incredible. Even modern manufactures with direct injection still need cats to eliminate combustion by products.

[Derwud]

My car use to dump 1200 PPM's of HC at idle.. I would assume a lower number would smell much less like gas!!! 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Sounds like a tuning issue. If it wreaks from the tailpipe, something is not setup properly

[303 Mopar]

Any fuel smell with the Sniper system? That's my main issue with carbs. Also, any mechanical noise from under the hood?

You will always have an exhaust smell unless you put cats on it regardless of the fuel delivery type.

True, but it's the fuel smell coming from under the hood that gets me.

No fuel smell at all.

Your exhaust has no odor? Thats incredible. Even modern manufactures with direct injection still need cats to eliminate combustion by products.

His comment was "fuel smell coming from under the hood". There is no fuel smell under my hood at all.  

[c00nhunterjoe]

My mistake. I thought you were referring to the exhaust odor as well. Still, carb or injected, there should not be raw fuel odors.

[Brass]

Any fuel smell with the Sniper system? That's my main issue with carbs. Also, any mechanical noise from under the hood?

You will always have an exhaust smell unless you put cats on it regardless of the fuel delivery type.

True, but it's the fuel smell coming from under the hood that gets me.

No fuel smell at all.

Your exhaust has no odor? Thats incredible. Even modern manufactures with direct injection still need cats to eliminate combustion by products.

His comment was "fuel smell coming from under the hood". There is no fuel smell under my hood at all.  

Was there any before switching to EFI?  I think what people want to know is whether normal for EFI is less than what is normal for a properly tuned 4 barrel carb.

For me, switching to a dual flow PCV valve reduced under-hood fumes significantly.  I wonder how much, if any, improvement switching to a throttle body EFI would net.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Interesting again. I run no pcv on 2 of mine. Both only have screens for air cleaners. There is zero fumes under the hood. Unless of course i stick my face down the carb, but that seems silly.

[Derwud]

Sounds like a tuning issue. If it wreaks from the tailpipe, something is not setup properly

100k motor with the Mopar 484 Purple shaft cam.. tuned best it could be and maybe 1000 PPM, 1200 was it's daily average...

[303 Mopar]

Any fuel smell with the Sniper system? That's my main issue with carbs. Also, any mechanical noise from under the hood?

You will always have an exhaust smell unless you put cats on it regardless of the fuel delivery type.

True, but it's the fuel smell coming from under the hood that gets me.

No fuel smell at all.

Your exhaust has no odor? Thats incredible. Even modern manufactures with direct injection still need cats to eliminate combustion by products.

His comment was "fuel smell coming from under the hood". There is no fuel smell under my hood at all.  

Was there any before switching to EFI?  I think what people want to know is whether normal for EFI is less than what is normal for a properly tuned 4 barrel carb.

For me, switching to a dual flow PCV valve reduced under-hood fumes significantly.  I wonder how much, if any, improvement switching to a throttle body EFI would net.

There was a little fuel smell but not any different than the other carbureted cars I have owned or been around.  I would say there was a small improvement since there is zero smell now. I would say if you have a strong fuel smell for whatever reason, an EFI would most likely eliminate it.

[Kern Dog]

I'd be interested in knowing some of the benefits you see after driving it a bit.   

[303 Mopar]

I'd be interested in knowing some of the benefits you see after driving it a bit.   

I've driven it a few hundred miles and the biggest benefit by far is throttle response. It has been in the upper 90's here and I've had no issues starting the car, even after it sat for 20-30 min which would've vapor locked before with the carb. The screen allows you to configure from over 180 readouts, so having the tach now that I have not had before is another side benefit.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Glad you are having fun with it. 

[Kern Dog]

I'd be interested in knowing some of the benefits you see after driving it a bit.   

I've driven it a few hundred miles and the biggest benefit by far is throttle response.

Thank you.
Was the throttle a bit soggy before ? Did the carburetor setup leave you with flat spots or lazy response?

[TexasStroker]

Very nice...hope you will continue to enjoy it!

What valve covers are you running?  It looked like they were finned MP units, but with a 440 carved out as well 

[303 Mopar]

I'd be interested in knowing some of the benefits you see after driving it a bit.   

I've driven it a few hundred miles and the biggest benefit by far is throttle response.

Thank you.
Was the throttle a bit soggy before ? Did the carburetor setup leave you with flat spots or lazy response?

I would say the throttle response was good before, about the best I've experienced from a car with a carb.  The Proform was tuned and ran great, no hesitations or flat spots off the line nor as the rpm increased. The EFI just has a quicker response.

[303 Mopar]

What valve covers are you running?  It looked like they were finned MP units, but with a 440 carved out as well 

I bought them off Ebay a while ago and then had a local shop make the "440".

[Kern Dog]

Thank you 303.   

[Challenger340]

I have a buddy struggling with his Sniper System, and getting nowhere very slowly.

[69Chrgr]

One reason why you see better throttle response from the EFI is the 1:1 throttle blade setup. I've installed a FiTech and an Edelbrock E-Street 2, and am absolutely sold on the new EFI systems. I am about to pilot the Sniper system on my Charger for future customers along with the Holley Dual Sync. You cannot believe the difference the Edelbrock E-Street 2 system improved when I installed the Edelbrock E-Street distributor that let the computer control they system on the customers 440. I have a Hellcat and that aluminum headed 440 would tear it up in an acceleration contest.

[Kern Dog]

1 to 1 throttle blade setup? Do you mean that the "primaries" and "secondaries" open at the same time?

[69Chrgr]

Yes.

[Kern Dog]

That is interesting. Thank you.

[Derwud]

I have been thinking about this.. Progressive linkage between front and back venturies is needed for street driven carberated cars, as opening them was the only way to increase fuel. Now with F.I., it adds fuel based on inputs (One of which is your foot.) I have heard of having to relearn how to drive your car, because know as you apply throttle the response is RIGHT NOW, rather then a bit lazy with Carbs.

[440]

Carbs can be just as responsive if not sometimes more responsive than some FI in my opinion. Everyone wants too big of a carb in my opinion, it's not so bad with vacuum secondary carbs as the engine determines what it needs. Mechanical secondaries need to be set up properly. There should be no hesitation or delay with a properly set up carb.

With a carb when you slam shut the throttle plates it responds instantly to your command. With many FI systems they tend to run on a bit to fully burn fuel for emissions.

[Kern Dog]

I have been thinking about this.. Progressive linkage between front and back venturies is needed for street driven carberated cars, as opening them was the only way to increase fuel. Now with F.I., it adds fuel based on inputs (One of which is your foot.) I have heard of having to relearn how to drive your car, because know as you apply throttle the response is RIGHT NOW, rather then a bit lazy with Carbs.

That is why I was curious about the 1 to 1 ratio of the throttle blades. Like you expressed, the butterflies meter airflow but the injectors control the amount of fuel delivered.

[Derwud]

Carbs can be just as responsive if not sometimes more responsive than some FI in my opinion. Everyone wants too big of a carb in my opinion, it's not so bad with vacuum secondary carbs as the engine determines what it needs. Mechanical secondaries need to be set up properly. There should be no hesitation or delay with a properly set up carb.

With a carb when you slam shut the throttle plates it responds instantly to your command. With many FI systems they tend to run on a bit to fully burn fuel for emissions.

I can tune a carb, but I will never be able to tune it to be as good as a good EFI system..

[303 Mopar]

Carbs can be just as responsive if not sometimes more responsive than some FI in my opinion. Everyone wants too big of a carb in my opinion, it's not so bad with vacuum secondary carbs as the engine determines what it needs. Mechanical secondaries need to be set up properly. There should be no hesitation or delay with a properly set up carb.

With a carb when you slam shut the throttle plates it responds instantly to your command. With many FI systems they tend to run on a bit to fully burn fuel for emissions.

I can tune a carb, but I will never be able to tune it to be as good as a good EFI system..

And then throw in electronic timing control.....

[Derwud]

Carbs can be just as responsive if not sometimes more responsive than some FI in my opinion. Everyone wants too big of a carb in my opinion, it's not so bad with vacuum secondary carbs as the engine determines what it needs. Mechanical secondaries need to be set up properly. There should be no hesitation or delay with a properly set up carb.

With a carb when you slam shut the throttle plates it responds instantly to your command. With many FI systems they tend to run on a bit to fully burn fuel for emissions.

I can tune a carb, but I will never be able to tune it to be as good as a good EFI system..

And then throw in electronic timing control.....

That is when you jump from the table and yell Yahtzee. I have done the manual tuning, fun but TIME consuming.. Auto Tune, yes please!!

[69Chrgr]

I have been thinking about this.. Progressive linkage between front and back venturies is needed for street driven carberated cars, as opening them was the only way to increase fuel. Now with F.I., it adds fuel based on inputs (One of which is your foot.) I have heard of having to relearn how to drive your car, because know as you apply throttle the response is RIGHT NOW, rather then a bit lazy with Carbs.

This is correct.

[TexasStroker]

What valve covers are you running?  It looked like they were finned MP units, but with a 440 carved out as well 

I bought them off Ebay a while ago and then had a local shop make the "440".

Cool, turned out great!

[darbgnik]

I recently installed a Sniper system with the in tank pump, and really like it. A couple things I learned: The system does learn, but it is not immediate. You really do need to leave it to figure its life out. I suppose I could have fully read the instructions to appreciate that, but I didn't, lol.

It needs to learn idle in park, then in gear if you have an auto. It's interesting watching the IAC(idle control motor) work on the handheld trying to keep the engine running with a load on it(stopped in gear) versus being slipped into neutral.

I am still learning, and playing with it, but I think I'm correct in saying that the system only learns above 160* F, meaning, if you have start up, or  keeping it running problems before the engine warms up, you have to play with the base parameters yourself. Like IAC park at crank, fuel prime, fuel enrichment at warmup, idle speed at warmup etc. This is what I'm playing with at the  moment. Hot startup and hot running are stellar as is. Just seems rich and stumbly at warming up idle. Apparently you can use the handheld for a lot of it, but I find the handheld very, very fiddly, so I find loading on the computer to be much, much easier.

Anyone else find the Holley handheld has false touches on the touch screen, and self selects things?

[Back N Black]

Ok, this has nothing to do with the Holly EFI Sniper kit, but I have a Proform 850 mechanical secondary's carburetor on my 440 and the throttle response on the charger is better than my 2017 Dodge Ram??? just sounds like a lot of tuning and learning to get that perfect throttle response. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Ok, this has nothing to do with the Holly EFI Sniper kit, but I have a Proform 850 mechanical secondary's carburetor on my 440 and the throttle response on the charger is better than my 2017 Dodge Ram??? just sounds like a lot of tuning and learning to get that perfect throttle response. 

Mine are all crisp and instant as well. They are what you make them and nothing more.

[TexasStroker]

One reason why you see better throttle response from the EFI is the 1:1 throttle blade setup. I've installed a FiTech and an Edelbrock E-Street 2, and am absolutely sold on the new EFI systems. I am about to pilot the Sniper system on my Charger for future customers along with the Holley Dual Sync. You cannot believe the difference the Edelbrock E-Street 2 system improved when I installed the Edelbrock E-Street distributor that let the computer control they system on the customers 440. I have a Hellcat and that aluminum headed 440 would tear it up in an acceleration contest.

Just saw this...curious as to the build of the 440?

Hopefully the Holley system and Dual Sync will work well for you!

[69Chrgr]

One reason why you see better throttle response from the EFI is the 1:1 throttle blade setup. I've installed a FiTech and an Edelbrock E-Street 2, and am absolutely sold on the new EFI systems. I am about to pilot the Sniper system on my Charger for future customers along with the Holley Dual Sync. You cannot believe the difference the Edelbrock E-Street 2 system improved when I installed the Edelbrock E-Street distributor that let the computer control they system on the customers 440. I have a Hellcat and that aluminum headed 440 would tear it up in an acceleration contest.

Just saw this...curious as to the build of the 440?

Hopefully the Holley system and Dual Sync will work well for you!

This was an Edelbrock roller cam, heads, intake and complete FI system in a 73 Cuda. I've been so busy with customer cars that I haven't got to mine yet, however will very soon. I already have the Holley dual sync and will purchase the Tanks Inc system along with the Super Sniper probably in the Fall once I get caught up on customer cars.

[Challenger340]

We've experienced problems with the Holley Sniper System notretaining it's "learn".  The problem has persisted for many months now to no avail. 
It runs fine once it has been driven, learned, been tuned from operator imputs, etc., etc..... seems to be running/starting fantastic and doing everything it should be doing, then 300 miles or so later ? DUMPERS !  you will get in it Hot after parking somewhere for a quick stop and NO START, frigs around and tries to start.... crank... crank... part throttle fire up and rev to the moon to keep running, won't idle, a guy has to sit there and baby it for 5 minutes trying to stay running and get back down to Idle, then it will blubber away re-learning/starting over from scratch while you limp home.
Very frustrating 
The owner has tried numerous fixes, in touch with Holley, replaced pieces/parts, the damn thing just will NOT retain a patent running characteristic over time, and usually DUMPS when least expected.

[darbgnik]

We've experienced problems with the Holley Sniper System notretaining it's "learn".  The problem has persisted for many months now to no avail. 
It runs fine once it has been driven, learned, been tuned from operator imputs, etc., etc..... seems to be running/starting fantastic and doing everything it should be doing, then 300 miles or so later ? DUMPERS !  you will get in it Hot after parking somewhere for a quick stop and NO START, frigs around and tries to start.... crank... crank... part throttle fire up and rev to the moon to keep running, won't idle, a guy has to sit there and baby it for 5 minutes trying to stay running and get back down to Idle, then it will blubber away re-learning/starting over from scratch while you limp home.
Very frustrating 
The owner has tried numerous fixes, in touch with Holley, replaced pieces/parts, the damn thing just will NOT retain a patent running characteristic over time, and usually DUMPS when least expected.

Definitely sounds like a Monday built system. Holley should know this, but it sounds like a problem with the ECU. That's the only part that has to "remember" anything. If software updates don't fix it, then it's a hardware issue. They should just send him a new one.....

I bought the Holley over the FItech, because I'm betting Holley will be around longer for support, than FItech. A disappointing account to hear, to say the least.

[John_Kunkel]

Hardly anybody goes on the Internet and tells the world how well a certain product performs but if it doesn't.............

[c00nhunterjoe]

Hardly anybody goes on the Internet and tells the world how well a certain product performs but if it doesn't.............

Or if we do get on the internet and talk good about a product, some guys jump on board and compare it to horse and buggies. 

[John_Kunkel]

Linguistically, there's a difference between a branded "product" i.e. Holley Sniper and a "part" I. e. carburetors in general.

[Challenger340]

Linguistically, there's a difference between a branded "product" i.e. Holley Sniper and a "part" I. e. carburetors in general.

Now THAT is entertaining.

[c00nhunterjoe]

  its all made in china, probably in the same factory. Might be assembled into a different style case, but the guts are the same, much like a holley carb, quick fuel, proform.... etc. But you already know that.the different brand throttle body kits are more similar then a 4150 to an afb.

[JR]

Ok, this has nothing to do with the Holly EFI Sniper kit, but I have a Proform 850 mechanical secondary's carburetor on my 440 and the throttle response on the charger is better than my 2017 Dodge Ram??? just sounds like a lot of tuning and learning to get that perfect throttle response. 

Some of that could be attributed to your ram having "throttle by wire".

The computer has to listen to you, then decide if you're in putting the correct amount of pedal, then send that signal to the engine. Likely done this way for packaging and fuel mileage.

I love efi and all, but throttle by wire is a burning hatred of mine. I'd take a throttle cable over it all day.

[John_Kunkel]

Delayed throttle response is a major complaint in late model Rams (Google it). FCA is mostly ignoring the problem so, as usual, the aftermarket steps in to correct it. And, yes, it's related to the electronic throttle, not the EFI itself.

https://www.pedalcommander.com/?v=7516fd43adaa

[darbgnik]

Throttle by wire does have it's advantages, like simplified(lighter) cruise control. My BMW R1200GS motorcycle didn't get spec'ed with cruise control, so I paid a couple hundred bucks for a switch set and a ECU update.

When Vipers switched to throttle by wire there were a few complaints, but I find my 2015 works very well, with no perceptible lag. The lag is a function of design, and less a defect. The lag in my Ram Cummins is very apparent, but is supposedly there to save the transmission?

[c00nhunterjoe]

The lag on drive by wire is part of the factory torque management strategy as well as the defuel between shifts. All easy to eliminate with programming.

[Challenger340]

Digital Electronics and the technological advances in automobiles we've seen are a wonderful thing 

But for most people today, IMO, it's all wonderful until something goes wrong with it ? 
Just say'in.... I think the average DIY'er knowledge base around the newer stuff, is far less than it was in the 1980's with that stuff ?

[flyinlow]

Does any one have both the Sniper and Fitech?

[Challenger340]

Does any one have both the Sniper and Fitech?

BUMP !

This would be great if there was someone ?
And even better if there were more than one person who has both systems.

Problem being, we have a few Customers who had BAD experiences with Holley, then went over to Fi-Tech, and now RAVE about good Fi-Tech is ? 
and,
we also know of a few guys who had BAD experiences with Fi-Tech and went over to Holley, now happy, so they now RAVE about how good Holley is ?

WHO OWNS BOTH FITECH AND SNIPER SYSTEMS ?

[c00nhunterjoe]

I own both holley and carter systems... oh wait... lol