New engine build- stumbling under acceleration-issue found

[NHCharger]

Before I take carb off other car there are two things I haven't changed on the new carb. 
The main jets and accelerator pump nozzles. I'll swap them tonight. Why not. At this point I can take the carb apart blindfolded.

[NHCharger]

Ok. Just tried that set up. Think car ran a bit worse at low speeds. Same problem with bog. Also dumped in 12 gallons of 87. No difference. When I'm coasting at 20 in drive and nail the throttle I get the bog, but when I'm coasting at 20 and put it in neutral and nail it, no bog, only under a load this happens.
I'm waiting for the engine to cool down to pull a few plugs.

[68CoronetRT]

I know the solution to your troubles....

Toss the carb and do EFI.... enjoy a well driving car and never look at a carb again. 

[NHCharger]

I have two pics of the plugs. The plugs with all 8 are from June 3, to other is from tonight.
It's obvious that plugs 2 and 8 are different from the rest. Also looks like I went to far with the carb adjustment. Went .043 on the accelerator pump nozzle and went with the largest main jets.

[bee1971]

Yes , very very rich looking at the base ring threads

Accelerator pump nozzle is off idle acceleration , hesitation off idle while stabbing the gas pedal etc.


Your saying a bog more towards when cruising and kicking in the secondaries , NOT OFF IDLE correct ?

Something else is going on with the secondary portion of that carb , float adjustments , needle and seat
Restriction in the carb etc.


Try another carb and see if the issue goes away and get back to us

[c00nhunterjoe]

Compression test while plugs are out. 2 and 8 are clearly way off. How where these reading taken?

[firefighter3931]

Brian,

What plugs are you running in this engine ? Heat range looks a bit cold based on their appearance.

I would try some new NGK XR4's and gap them at .035 

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ngk-5858/overview/



Ron

[NHCharger]

Hey Ron, I'm currently running NGK  UR5, v power. The motor came out of a 70's motor home and has the tapered plugs.
Starting tomorrow we are in full Carlisle prep mode. Heading down Wednesday. When we get back I'll try the different plugs. Still haven't had time to swap the Proform off my 68 onto the wing car to see what happens.
Are you heading down this year??

[NHCharger]

I just put my buddies 750 Edelbrock on the car. Same symptoms. Will pull plugs tomorrow night and do compression test

[c00nhunterjoe]

What did your buddies 750 come off of? Odds are its not tuned for your engine either. This is probably still related to timing and vaccum signal from a low comp engine with too much cam though.

[firefighter3931]

Hey Ron, I'm currently running NGK  UR5, v power. The motor came out of a 70's motor home and has the tapered plugs.
Starting tomorrow we are in full Carlisle prep mode. Heading down Wednesday. When we get back I'll try the different plugs. Still haven't had time to swap the Proform off my 68 onto the wing car to see what happens.
Are you heading down this year??

Hi Brian....how was Carlisle ? Couldn't make it this year due to work schedule. 

I would go one heat range warmer (UR4) and see how it runs. 

I bet it would run much better with a proform 750 street series vac secondary carb. 



Ron

[NHCharger]

Hey Ron. Carlisle was great. No rain. A ton of cars. Lots of foot traffic. For a change I didn't have a three page shopping list.
I did a compression test last night, all the plugs out, cold engine. Every cylinder was 168-170.
I changed out the plugs from UR5 to UR4. It had the same symptoms, maybe even a bit worse.
I changed the timing at idle from 18* to 13*, no difference.
The car still has that hiccup, when I'm cruising around 30-40 and turn left it will hiccup like something interrupted the fuel delivery.
I guess some time next week I will remove the Proform from the 68 and stick it on the Daytona. It only takes ten minutes to swap carbs when swapping Edelbrocks which is why I borrowed my friends carb. Will be interesting if it ends up that this motor doesn't like Eddys. The previous owner was running a Holley. I tried installing that last month but it was leaking like a sieve from both bowls.

Joe- My buddy has a 70 GTX, 440. He got it when his dad passed away 6 years ago. He doesn't know much about it. His Dad use to drag race it. From the sound of the engine I'm pretty sure it's not stock.

[69wannabe]

None of my engines like the eddy carbs, I have been running holley's for years now with good results. I had a really good 600 edelbrock on my old ford but I think the ford engines like the eddy carbs more than the mopar engines do.

[BSB67]

If you guys cannot get an Eddy to run on your motor, it is not a reflection of the motor that is under it.  It is simply one of two things, a faulty carb, or lack of proper trouble shooting and tuning.

[bakerhillpins]

If you guys cannot get an Eddy to run on your motor, it is not a reflection of the motor that is under it.  It is simply one of two things, a faulty carb, or lack of proper trouble shooting and tuning.

Well, that's kinda what this thread is all about. Trying to figure it out what the problem is.    If you have some trouble shooting and tuning tips why not be constructive and share them rather than just going with the criticism part? 

[c00nhunterjoe]

If you guys cannot get an Eddy to run on your motor, it is not a reflection of the motor that is under it.  It is simply one of two things, a faulty carb, or lack of proper trouble shooting and tuning.

Well, that's kinda what this thread is all about. Trying to figure it out what the problem is.    If you have some trouble shooting and tuning tips why not be constructive and share them rather than just going with the criticism part? 

There have been alot of troubleshooting tips given. I think he has swapped 3 carbs at this point all with the exact same concern at the exact same point- tells me its not a carb problem. The stumble while turning may be playing a role, especially if it is also doing it with the swapped carbs as well. There is more going on here then a carb tuning issue.

[BSB67]

If you guys cannot get an Eddy to run on your motor, it is not a reflection of the motor that is under it.  It is simply one of two things, a faulty carb, or lack of proper trouble shooting and tuning.

Well, that's kinda what this thread is all about. Trying to figure it out what the problem is.    If you have some trouble shooting and tuning tips why not be constructive and share them rather than just going with the criticism part?  

I see your panties are in a bunch.  I have made recommendations on what to look for.  The OP has dismissed most of them.  So either he is missing it, has convinced himself the something is okay that is not (which happens about half of the time, - i.e. I've check everything and everything is perfect but it still does not run right syndrome)  or its a faulty carb.  If the car was in my driveway, I would figure it out.

It's a lean condition, it can only be so many things.  He never really check for a vacuum leak or fuel pressure, among other things.  

8" vacuum at 850 rpm with basically a stock cam.  He sprayed a little carb cleaner........all good, despite the evidence.  Can lead a horse to water, can't make it drink

[c00nhunterjoe]

Same exact problem with 2 different carbs..... if you are sure its the carb, remove the metering rods and springs and drive it.

[NHCharger]

If you guys cannot get an Eddy to run on your motor, it is not a reflection of the motor that is under it.  It is simply one of two things, a faulty carb, or lack of proper trouble shooting and tuning.

Well, that's kinda what this thread is all about. Trying to figure it out what the problem is.    If you have some trouble shooting and tuning tips why not be constructive and share them rather than just going with the criticism part?  

I see your panties are in a bunch.  I have made recommendations on what to look for.  The OP has dismissed most of them.  So either he is missing it, has convinced himself the something is okay that is not (which happens about half of the time, - i.e. I've check everything and everything is perfect but it still does not run right syndrome)  or its a faulty carb.  If the car was in my driveway, I would figure it out.

It's a lean condition, it can only be so many things.  He never really check for a vacuum leak or fuel pressure, among other things.  

8" vacuum at 850 rpm with basically a stock cam.  Sprayed a little carb cleaner........all good, despite the evidence.  Can lead a horse to water, can't make it drink

I believe I have checked every recommendation you guys have made.  I keep a list of everything. I will check it tomorrow night. Maybe I have missed  or overlooked something

[NHCharger]

Same exact problem with 2 different carbs..... if you are sure its the carb, remove the metering rods and springs and drive it.

That's the problem.  I'm not sure it's the carb. That's why I swapped fuel pumps. Have a new fuel pump rod. I then thought it must be ignition so I swapped distributors with my 68 Charger.
When you guys talk about vacuum leaks how many other areas can have a leak besides the base of the carb? 

[bee1971]

Turn in the idle mixture screws on carb , clockwise to see if you can get the engine to die at idle , see if it's sucking air somewhere else if it stays running

Who installed the timing chain and gears ?  What was the cam installed at , dot to dot or advanced/retarded

Like mentioned 8" vacuum is terrible at idle for that cam

Coil ? Higher RPM's when getting hot

Anyways I would like to see or know how that cam was installed

[c00nhunterjoe]

Swapping fuel pumps does not verify fuel pressure. You have to put a gauge on it and drive it at wide open throttle.

[bakerhillpins]

I see your panties are in a bunch.  I have made recommendations on what to look for.  The OP has dismissed most of them.  So either he is missing it, has convinced himself the something is okay that is not (which happens about half of the time, - i.e. I've check everything and everything is perfect but it still does not run right syndrome)  or its a faulty carb.  If the car was in my driveway, I would figure it out.

It's a lean condition, it can only be so many things.  He never really check for a vacuum leak or fuel pressure, among other things.  

8" vacuum at 850 rpm with basically a stock cam.  He sprayed a little carb cleaner........all good, despite the evidence.  Can lead a horse to water, can't make it drink

Maybe you weren't trying to be snarky in the previous post but that's the way it came across to me and If I'm wrong then I apologize.

I have been trying to help the OP on this issue offline and he's even walked me through a bunch of the stuff he's tried when I stopped by before Carlisle. I believe he's made a good faith effort to try all the suggestions and apparently you don't. If you feel the testing procedures are not up to your standards then try suggesting steps to take or endeavor to ask how the evaluation was performed before assuming otherwise. That's all I'm suggesting. The testing steps you provide may help the OP as well as the next person to read the thread. I know that I have a lot to learn and always appreciate the efforts of others to explain how/why.

[Nickrc3]

Turn in the idle mixture screws on carb , clockwise to see if you can get the engine to die at idle , see if it's sucking air somewhere else if it stays running

Who installed the timing chain and gears ?  What was the cam installed at , dot to dot or advanced/retarded

Like mentioned 8" vacuum is terrible at idle for that cam

Coil ? Higher RPM's when getting hot

Anyways I would like to see or know how that cam was installed

...I had similar issues and it was exactly what Bee1971 listed - coil.

[NHCharger]

Have not had time to work on car lately. Work slowly crushing my soul.
I tried testing for vac leak again at different throttle speeds, no difference.
Vacuum is 13-14 at idle, not 8.
I tried Joe's suggestion about removing metering rods and springs- no difference.
I played with timing-no difference.
Decided to put original metering rods and springs back in and set timing to 18* initial to go to car show last Sunday, when I pulled out of shop car was running badly, so I figured I would back off timing a bit, when I was adjusting, car died , wouldn't start. Let it sit and just took 68 Charger to show.
Tested ignition system when I go home. Distributor shit the bed. this was the Firecore distributor that I swapped with my 68 when I was trying to diagnose problem. this distributor is five years old and has only 7k miles on it. so out of warranty.
Got the new distributor yesterday. While reading instructions it said I should swap out the stock springs for lighter springs for a low compression street engine. So I swapped springs, installed distributor and set timing, went to go for test drive- no brakes.
I bled brakes, no difference. Vacuum is 10-11.
Going to swap back to original springs and see what happens.
I have not tested fuel pressure yet.