Poor 68

[orange383]

Terribly sad that two lives have been lost here. A poor decision and bad luck came into play I suppose as well as poor side protection.

Is there anything we can do to make our cars stronger? My 68 has the quarters off at the moment and needs new rockers. Is there anything I can add to increase strength that won't cause other safety issues?

Maybe a full roll cage is the simplest and best option but I plan on using my car often and taking my family out in it so maybe a roll cage is not an option?

Matt.

[Fred]

Careful, sensible driving is not always foolproof but it does go a long way in helping you get from A to B and back again.

[Mopar Nut]

 

[Kern Dog]

Terribly sad that two lives have been lost here. A poor decision and bad luck came into play I suppose as well as poor side protection.

Is there anything we can do to make our cars stronger? My 68 has the quarters off at the moment and needs new rockers. Is there anything I can add to increase strength that won't cause other safety issues?

Maybe a full roll cage is the simplest and best option but I plan on using my car often and taking my family out in it so maybe a roll cage is not an option?

Matt.

I suppose that you could place specially contoured tubular pipes like a roll bar between the quarters and inner structure. Maybe add a reinforcing bar in the doors and in the front wheelwell, hidden from view by the fenders. The door latch would be a weak point though, maybe you could have a roll bar that is mounted an inch inside from the door opening, allowing rear seat access and fore-aft movement of the front seats. THis will add weight of course but is an interesting idea. The time to do this is when the car still needs metal work and such. I cannot imagine anyone would rip their 1/4 panels off after a $10,000 paint job!

[TPR]

I hate seeing this kind of stuff. A terrible loss of life.
TPR

[orange383]

Terribly sad that two lives have been lost here. A poor decision and bad luck came into play I suppose as well as poor side protection.

Is there anything we can do to make our cars stronger? My 68 has the quarters off at the moment and needs new rockers. Is there anything I can add to increase strength that won't cause other safety issues?

Maybe a full roll cage is the simplest and best option but I plan on using my car often and taking my family out in it so maybe a roll cage is not an option?

Matt.

I suppose that you could place specially contoured tubular pipes like a roll bar between the quarters and inner structure. Maybe add a reinforcing bar in the doors and in the front wheelwell, hidden from view by the fenders. The door latch would be a weak point though, maybe you could have a roll bar that is mounted an inch inside from the door opening, allowing rear seat access and fore-aft movement of the front seats. THis will add weight of course but is an interesting idea. The time to do this is when the car still needs metal work and such. I cannot imagine anyone would rip their 1/4 panels off after a $10,000 paint job!

Thanks kern dog this is kind of what I was thinking and as my car is already in bits now is the time to do it but I don't want to make something that ends up as being some sort of projectile that comes into the car on impact and does more harm than good. If I do it I think I'll probably go with a full roll cage.

Matt.

[Lennard]

Terribly sad that two lives have been lost here. A poor decision and bad luck came into play I suppose as well as poor side protection.

Is there anything we can do to make our cars stronger? My 68 has the quarters off at the moment and needs new rockers. Is there anything I can add to increase strength that won't cause other safety issues?

Maybe a full roll cage is the simplest and best option but I plan on using my car often and taking my family out in it so maybe a roll cage is not an option?

Matt.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9iB3N-4-09I

[chargervert]

Those lower crash bars above the rockers in your video,and tying the roll bar behind the front seats to the door latch b pillar would make a huge difference in the event of a side impact crash.

[Lennard]

Those lower crash bars above the rockers in your video,and tying the roll bar behind the front seats to the door latch b pillar would make a huge difference in the event of a side impact crash.

I wanted added safety but not a jungle gym/race car cage, since it's just a street car.

[JR]

Just a reminder, standard roll cages in a street driven car can be just as dangerous unless you wear a helmet every time you drive the vehicle.

In a crash, your upper body is likely to move around the cabin in any direction. Hitting your skull on roll bar tubing during a crash would be like smashing a watermelon with a hammer. With similar looking results.

My personal method of dealing with poor safety is just to drive the car as vigilant as I'd drive a motorcycle, on guard constantly, and assume everyone is trying to kill me.

[Lennard]

I'm not building a 700-800 horsepower car to drive it like an old lady. I'm adding xv motor sports 3 point seat belts, head rests and put some padding on the cage tubing and have fun.

[JR]

I didn't say I drive like an old lady, I said I assume everyone else is driving incompetently.

Distracted drivers, bad drivers, roid raging bros in giant lifted 4wd's with armored bumpers at eye level, etc.

Pilots have a routine where they constantly scan the horizon for other aircraft or dangers, I try and adopt the same habit when in a vintage car, and never let my guard down.

[Lennard]

Pilots have a routine where they constantly scan the horizon for other aircraft or dangers, I try and adopt the same habit when in a vintage car, and never let my guard down.

I've been riding motorcycles since age 17 and I've been doing the same. Defensive riding have saved my life more than once.

[orange383]

Just a reminder, standard roll cages in a street driven car can be just as dangerous unless you wear a helmet every time you drive the vehicle.

In a crash, your upper body is likely to move around the cabin in any direction. Hitting your skull on roll bar tubing during a crash would be like smashing a watermelon with a hammer. With similar looking results.

My personal method of dealing with poor safety is just to drive the car as vigilant as I'd drive a motorcycle, on guard constantly, and assume everyone is trying to kill me.

Yes I've heard this before.
What if the roll bar is padded?

Matt.

[orange383]

Thanks for the link Lennard. I had watched that vid before and will watch it again. I love Chris' work.

[Lennard]

Thanks for the link Lennard. I had watched that vid before and will watch it again. I love Chris' work.

You're welcome.  The guy is a master fabricator.

[VegasCharger]

My personal method of dealing with poor safety is just to drive the car as vigilant as I'd drive a motorcycle, on guard constantly, and assume everyone is trying to kill me.

I've been riding motorcycles since age 17 and I've been doing the same. Defensive riding have saved my life more than once.

Defensive driving goes a long way.  

Don't get caught up in your average Joe's daily routine driver habits. Choose you're own methods that garners you a safer ride.

One example: approaching a red light, leave at least one car length of space in front of you when you come to a complete stop. This avoids you and your car from hitting the car ahead of you in case the JackAss behind you rear ends your car. If you feel the need to creep up while waiting, wait until there's about 6 cars behind you. I see all the time people jack their brakes just stopping inches away from the car in front of them. Why??? Does this move make you look cool?

[JR]

Just a reminder, standard roll cages in a street driven car can be just as dangerous unless you wear a helmet every time you drive the vehicle.

In a crash, your upper body is likely to move around the cabin in any direction. Hitting your skull on roll bar tubing during a crash would be like smashing a watermelon with a hammer. With similar looking results.

Yes I've heard this before.
What if the roll bar is padded?

Matt.

Well, imagine being hit in the head with a steel pipe by Dwane Johnson, as hard as he can swing it, but the pipe is covered with a foam pool noodle.

Best case scenario, a concussion. Worst case scenario, skull cracked open like an egg.

[Lennard]

But the chance of me bashing my head on my roll bar is the same as my head getting bashed in by Dwane Johnson. The roll bar is behind and above me, so I'd have to get out of my seat first. Just my opinion of course.  I weight my options and I think it adds more safety than danger.

[Mike DC]

Well, imagine being hit in the head with a steel pipe by Dwane Johnson, as hard as he can swing it, but the pipe is covered with a foam pool noodle.

Best case scenario, a concussion. Worst case scenario, skull cracked open like an egg.

I can sit in a lot of muscle cars, lean my head/shoulders to the left, and touch my head against the metal roof.   I don't mean by straining hard, I mean just casually.  My body getting whipped around in a wreck . . . I might still be able to hit that roof with my head even if it was a 5-6" farther away.  I'm a normal body size.  I can touch my head to the roof of quite a few newer cars too.

The logic against having a cage in a street car without a helmet isn't wrong.  But it holds rollcaged cars to a standard that non-caged cars don't come any closer to meeting.  


There is a legit argument that the cage intrudes 2 more valuable inches than the metal of the stock roof.  But IMO that needs to be weighed against the benefits of the body not folding up.  (And who puts padding on the inside of the stock metal roof to make that extra room do any good?  Has anyone done that?
Ever?)  

I would vote to look at this issue on a case-by-case basis.    What size is the driver, what kind of driving do they do, how good of a job did the cage builder do on fitting it against the roof, etc.  

[JR]

Well, imagine being hit in the head with a steel pipe by Dwane Johnson, as hard as he can swing it, but the pipe is covered with a foam pool noodle.

Best case scenario, a concussion. Worst case scenario, skull cracked open like an egg.

The logic against having a cage in a street car without a helmet isn't wrong.  But it holds rollcaged cars to a standard that non-caged cars don't come any closer to meeting.  

Mike, I would like to point out that hitting your head on the (relatively soft) flat sheet metal will almost always be safer than hitting your skull on a very small contact point of a hardened steel roll cage.

The amount of energy your head contacts the surface with will be identical, but the impact is distributed accross a larger area by the stock interior, versus a tiny point of the roll bar.

Again, thats like being hit with a flat board, versus being hit with a flat board with a 4 inch bolt protruding from the end.

Everyone is free to make their own choice here, and to each their own, but personally, I'm strictly against a roll cage in a street car.

Now that said, if I had a vehicle that saw 100% track use, by all means, I'd have a cage (and matching helmet/4 point harness) everyday.

[chargervert]

I have ridden all over the place in my wife's Jeep with a roll bar,with no issue,all Jeeps have them. I would rather bounce off a padded round tube,than some of the square factory edges of the unibody structure.

[Mike DC]

Mike, I would like to point out that hitting your head on the (relatively soft) flat sheet metal will almost always be safer than hitting your skull on a very small contact point of a hardened steel roll cage.

The amount of energy your head contacts the surface with will be identical, but the impact is distributed accross a larger area by the stock interior, versus a tiny point of the roll bar.

Again, thats like being hit with a flat board, versus being hit with a flat board with a 4 inch bolt protruding from the end.

Everyone is free to make their own choice here, and to each their own, but personally, I'm strictly against a roll cage in a street car.

Now that said, if I had a vehicle that saw 100% track use, by all means, I'd have a cage (and matching helmet/4 point harness) everyday.

The inner roof structure near your head does not resemble flat sheetmetal.  It's not the unsupported roof skin we are talking about.  The inner structure has sharp bends, exposed places where panels overlap, etc.  There is nothing rounded or "giving" about it.   

The metal headliner trim piece (which is the easiest thing my head hits on a 2nd-gen) has a right-angle bend facing almost directly at your skull.  Even a bare un-padded rollbar might not hurt your head any worse than that. 


Like I said, I agree that rollbars are dangerous.  I just don't agree that the OEM roof near your head is remotely safe. 

[chargervert]

My friend Rick posted a photo of the 73 Road Runner that was T boned like this Charger was,on Moparts in a thread about this crash.  Check it out, you won't believe the carnage!

[orange383]

My friend Rick posted a photo of the 73 Road Runner that was T boned like this Charger was,on Moparts in a thread about this crash.  Check it out, you won't believe the carnage!

Do you have link? I couldn't find it.