Poor 68

[moparstuart]

http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/dodge-park-boulevard-crash-gresham-june-5-2018/1220496324

[Charger-Bodie]

Dang.

[chargervert]

I  remember a few years ago, when my friend Rick was T boned like that in his 73 Road Runner, I started a thread on Moparts about the total lack of side impact protection in our cars. I am sure that some of you may remember a thread posted by Dodge Charger.com member elanmars, about the crash he barely survived after same thing happened to him. If anyone had been in the passengers seat of either one of these cars,they would have been closed casket dead for sure! My friends Road Runner, you could stand where the passengers seat used to be!  No one loves these cars more than I do,but we have to keep in mind that these cars we designed during the infantcy of automotive industry safety standards, and perform as such in the event of a crash. The uni body failed to protect the occupants in this crash. The rockers are nothing more than stamped sheet metal, with no frame rails behind them. The lack of a full B pillar left them with only a sheet metal door, latched to a sheet metal rear quarter panel to protect them. Even the B body cars with the full B pillars are nothing more than a tacked piece of sheet metal that offers no real structual strength.   To be really safe in these cars, they need a roll cage and beefed up rockers. I know not everyone will agree with me on this, but this is another example of the facts. I am building a Daytona with a full Nascar chassis and roll cage, and I will feel a whole lot safer when it hits the street.  I am considering putting a cage in my 73 Charger that I drive daily too. Be safe out there driving your Mopars, and take extra time before you pull out in front of someone, wether the person who is behind you likes it or not!  I hope that those two guys only saw a flash of light and they are still cruising in that Charger on the other side!

[67440chrg]

What a shame. 1st the lives lost but a shame about the car as well.

[RECHRGD]

Looks like the Charger driver was doing a bit of showing off from the stop sign and got sideways in front of the van.  Very sobering pictures.  Be careful out there guys......

[moparstuart]

Looks like the Charger driver was doing a bit of showing off from the stop sign and got sideways in front of the van.  Very sobering pictures.  Be careful out there guys......

thats what i was thinking to  , got squirrely went sideways over in the next lane right in front of the van  . Must have been going a a pretty high rate of speed too.  
  How did the back glass not shatter   

[68pplcharger]

Yeah a shame all the way around.

[JR]

That's tragic, I'm sorry to see that.

As bad as I hate to say it, that likely would have been survivable in a modern car. Personally, I consider our 50 year old classics only marginally safer than a motorcycle.

R.I.P.

[CDN72SE]

Ironic that the street name is Dodge Park Blvd.

[keith88]

I saw this this on facebook they said the car was heard doing a burn out right before the wreck ..it was by a school but no teenagers were involved.

[Birdflu]

Terrible to see....God speed...

[RECHRGD]

I don't remember seeing this car.  Do any of our other NW members know of it?

[Mike DC]

    
That accident really stacked the deck against the '68.  

That van doesn't look menacing but it probably weighs 1.5-2x as much, depending on the cargo.  The Charger went right into the metal bumper attached to the van's ladder frame.  It hit the Charger in the door - the heaviest parts of the Charger are at the ends and there is no inner door beam.  The Charger is also a hardtop without a B-pillar, which means it might as well be a convertible when it comes to that kind of hit.  But it lacks the super-thick reinforced outer rockers of a convertible.    

[chargervert]

Having replaced the convertible rocker reinforcement myself, it is just a stamped metal channel that is the same guage as the framerail.  It's not what I would call super thick! 

[smithenhiven]

Sad to see a Charger lost, ever more sad to know there were casualties.  RIP.

[XS29L9B2]

it s a bad new

[Kern Dog]

it s a bad new

?
We should be more upset about the loss of life than we are about the car.   

[8WHEELER]

It was Arden Olsen from Gresham. From what I hear he left a stop sign doing a burnout, got loose and crossed in front of van. He and a passenger passed. Very sad all around.

[8WHEELER]

The other side.

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Dan!  Did you know him?  Was he a member here?

[8WHEELER]

Hi Bob, Know a friend of mine knew him, its a small would, the Mopar circle's are tight.

Dan

[moparstuart]

The other side.

still amazed that back glass is intact 

[bull]

I didn't know the owner but then I don't spend much time at the shows and I'm not a club member. Very sad no matter how you look at it.

I've been out with my Charger in that area a couple dozen times and I know which stop sign he started his burnout from. It had to be the opposite side of the intersection from where I took this. There's a fire station within 100 yards of where it happened. In fact the old fire station is in the background of this pic. The new one is on the other side of the road.

[Fred]

Could have been so easily prevented.........so tragic.

[Mike DC]

                        
It just reminds you what can happen no matter how lovingly we restore every inch of these cars.  A lot of people have gotten killed in them over the years.  

If that '68 and the van were heading towards each other then it would rack up a very high impact speed.  Neither one even had to be going very fast on its own.  

[orange383]

Terribly sad that two lives have been lost here. A poor decision and bad luck came into play I suppose as well as poor side protection.

Is there anything we can do to make our cars stronger? My 68 has the quarters off at the moment and needs new rockers. Is there anything I can add to increase strength that won't cause other safety issues?

Maybe a full roll cage is the simplest and best option but I plan on using my car often and taking my family out in it so maybe a roll cage is not an option?

Matt.

[Fred]

Careful, sensible driving is not always foolproof but it does go a long way in helping you get from A to B and back again.

[Mopar Nut]

 

[Kern Dog]

Terribly sad that two lives have been lost here. A poor decision and bad luck came into play I suppose as well as poor side protection.

Is there anything we can do to make our cars stronger? My 68 has the quarters off at the moment and needs new rockers. Is there anything I can add to increase strength that won't cause other safety issues?

Maybe a full roll cage is the simplest and best option but I plan on using my car often and taking my family out in it so maybe a roll cage is not an option?

Matt.

I suppose that you could place specially contoured tubular pipes like a roll bar between the quarters and inner structure. Maybe add a reinforcing bar in the doors and in the front wheelwell, hidden from view by the fenders. The door latch would be a weak point though, maybe you could have a roll bar that is mounted an inch inside from the door opening, allowing rear seat access and fore-aft movement of the front seats. THis will add weight of course but is an interesting idea. The time to do this is when the car still needs metal work and such. I cannot imagine anyone would rip their 1/4 panels off after a $10,000 paint job!

[TPR]

I hate seeing this kind of stuff. A terrible loss of life.
TPR

[orange383]

Terribly sad that two lives have been lost here. A poor decision and bad luck came into play I suppose as well as poor side protection.

Is there anything we can do to make our cars stronger? My 68 has the quarters off at the moment and needs new rockers. Is there anything I can add to increase strength that won't cause other safety issues?

Maybe a full roll cage is the simplest and best option but I plan on using my car often and taking my family out in it so maybe a roll cage is not an option?

Matt.

I suppose that you could place specially contoured tubular pipes like a roll bar between the quarters and inner structure. Maybe add a reinforcing bar in the doors and in the front wheelwell, hidden from view by the fenders. The door latch would be a weak point though, maybe you could have a roll bar that is mounted an inch inside from the door opening, allowing rear seat access and fore-aft movement of the front seats. THis will add weight of course but is an interesting idea. The time to do this is when the car still needs metal work and such. I cannot imagine anyone would rip their 1/4 panels off after a $10,000 paint job!

Thanks kern dog this is kind of what I was thinking and as my car is already in bits now is the time to do it but I don't want to make something that ends up as being some sort of projectile that comes into the car on impact and does more harm than good. If I do it I think I'll probably go with a full roll cage.

Matt.

[Lennard]

Terribly sad that two lives have been lost here. A poor decision and bad luck came into play I suppose as well as poor side protection.

Is there anything we can do to make our cars stronger? My 68 has the quarters off at the moment and needs new rockers. Is there anything I can add to increase strength that won't cause other safety issues?

Maybe a full roll cage is the simplest and best option but I plan on using my car often and taking my family out in it so maybe a roll cage is not an option?

Matt.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9iB3N-4-09I

[chargervert]

Those lower crash bars above the rockers in your video,and tying the roll bar behind the front seats to the door latch b pillar would make a huge difference in the event of a side impact crash.

[Lennard]

Those lower crash bars above the rockers in your video,and tying the roll bar behind the front seats to the door latch b pillar would make a huge difference in the event of a side impact crash.

I wanted added safety but not a jungle gym/race car cage, since it's just a street car.

[JR]

Just a reminder, standard roll cages in a street driven car can be just as dangerous unless you wear a helmet every time you drive the vehicle.

In a crash, your upper body is likely to move around the cabin in any direction. Hitting your skull on roll bar tubing during a crash would be like smashing a watermelon with a hammer. With similar looking results.

My personal method of dealing with poor safety is just to drive the car as vigilant as I'd drive a motorcycle, on guard constantly, and assume everyone is trying to kill me.

[Lennard]

I'm not building a 700-800 horsepower car to drive it like an old lady. I'm adding xv motor sports 3 point seat belts, head rests and put some padding on the cage tubing and have fun.

[JR]

I didn't say I drive like an old lady, I said I assume everyone else is driving incompetently.

Distracted drivers, bad drivers, roid raging bros in giant lifted 4wd's with armored bumpers at eye level, etc.

Pilots have a routine where they constantly scan the horizon for other aircraft or dangers, I try and adopt the same habit when in a vintage car, and never let my guard down.

[Lennard]

Pilots have a routine where they constantly scan the horizon for other aircraft or dangers, I try and adopt the same habit when in a vintage car, and never let my guard down.

I've been riding motorcycles since age 17 and I've been doing the same. Defensive riding have saved my life more than once.

[orange383]

Just a reminder, standard roll cages in a street driven car can be just as dangerous unless you wear a helmet every time you drive the vehicle.

In a crash, your upper body is likely to move around the cabin in any direction. Hitting your skull on roll bar tubing during a crash would be like smashing a watermelon with a hammer. With similar looking results.

My personal method of dealing with poor safety is just to drive the car as vigilant as I'd drive a motorcycle, on guard constantly, and assume everyone is trying to kill me.

Yes I've heard this before.
What if the roll bar is padded?

Matt.

[orange383]

Thanks for the link Lennard. I had watched that vid before and will watch it again. I love Chris' work.

[Lennard]

Thanks for the link Lennard. I had watched that vid before and will watch it again. I love Chris' work.

You're welcome.  The guy is a master fabricator.

[VegasCharger]

My personal method of dealing with poor safety is just to drive the car as vigilant as I'd drive a motorcycle, on guard constantly, and assume everyone is trying to kill me.

I've been riding motorcycles since age 17 and I've been doing the same. Defensive riding have saved my life more than once.

Defensive driving goes a long way.  

Don't get caught up in your average Joe's daily routine driver habits. Choose you're own methods that garners you a safer ride.

One example: approaching a red light, leave at least one car length of space in front of you when you come to a complete stop. This avoids you and your car from hitting the car ahead of you in case the JackAss behind you rear ends your car. If you feel the need to creep up while waiting, wait until there's about 6 cars behind you. I see all the time people jack their brakes just stopping inches away from the car in front of them. Why??? Does this move make you look cool?

[JR]

Just a reminder, standard roll cages in a street driven car can be just as dangerous unless you wear a helmet every time you drive the vehicle.

In a crash, your upper body is likely to move around the cabin in any direction. Hitting your skull on roll bar tubing during a crash would be like smashing a watermelon with a hammer. With similar looking results.

Yes I've heard this before.
What if the roll bar is padded?

Matt.

Well, imagine being hit in the head with a steel pipe by Dwane Johnson, as hard as he can swing it, but the pipe is covered with a foam pool noodle.

Best case scenario, a concussion. Worst case scenario, skull cracked open like an egg.

[Lennard]

But the chance of me bashing my head on my roll bar is the same as my head getting bashed in by Dwane Johnson. The roll bar is behind and above me, so I'd have to get out of my seat first. Just my opinion of course.  I weight my options and I think it adds more safety than danger.

[Mike DC]

Well, imagine being hit in the head with a steel pipe by Dwane Johnson, as hard as he can swing it, but the pipe is covered with a foam pool noodle.

Best case scenario, a concussion. Worst case scenario, skull cracked open like an egg.

I can sit in a lot of muscle cars, lean my head/shoulders to the left, and touch my head against the metal roof.   I don't mean by straining hard, I mean just casually.  My body getting whipped around in a wreck . . . I might still be able to hit that roof with my head even if it was a 5-6" farther away.  I'm a normal body size.  I can touch my head to the roof of quite a few newer cars too.

The logic against having a cage in a street car without a helmet isn't wrong.  But it holds rollcaged cars to a standard that non-caged cars don't come any closer to meeting.  


There is a legit argument that the cage intrudes 2 more valuable inches than the metal of the stock roof.  But IMO that needs to be weighed against the benefits of the body not folding up.  (And who puts padding on the inside of the stock metal roof to make that extra room do any good?  Has anyone done that?
Ever?)  

I would vote to look at this issue on a case-by-case basis.    What size is the driver, what kind of driving do they do, how good of a job did the cage builder do on fitting it against the roof, etc.  

[JR]

Well, imagine being hit in the head with a steel pipe by Dwane Johnson, as hard as he can swing it, but the pipe is covered with a foam pool noodle.

Best case scenario, a concussion. Worst case scenario, skull cracked open like an egg.

The logic against having a cage in a street car without a helmet isn't wrong.  But it holds rollcaged cars to a standard that non-caged cars don't come any closer to meeting.  

Mike, I would like to point out that hitting your head on the (relatively soft) flat sheet metal will almost always be safer than hitting your skull on a very small contact point of a hardened steel roll cage.

The amount of energy your head contacts the surface with will be identical, but the impact is distributed accross a larger area by the stock interior, versus a tiny point of the roll bar.

Again, thats like being hit with a flat board, versus being hit with a flat board with a 4 inch bolt protruding from the end.

Everyone is free to make their own choice here, and to each their own, but personally, I'm strictly against a roll cage in a street car.

Now that said, if I had a vehicle that saw 100% track use, by all means, I'd have a cage (and matching helmet/4 point harness) everyday.

[chargervert]

I have ridden all over the place in my wife's Jeep with a roll bar,with no issue,all Jeeps have them. I would rather bounce off a padded round tube,than some of the square factory edges of the unibody structure.

[Mike DC]

Mike, I would like to point out that hitting your head on the (relatively soft) flat sheet metal will almost always be safer than hitting your skull on a very small contact point of a hardened steel roll cage.

The amount of energy your head contacts the surface with will be identical, but the impact is distributed accross a larger area by the stock interior, versus a tiny point of the roll bar.

Again, thats like being hit with a flat board, versus being hit with a flat board with a 4 inch bolt protruding from the end.

Everyone is free to make their own choice here, and to each their own, but personally, I'm strictly against a roll cage in a street car.

Now that said, if I had a vehicle that saw 100% track use, by all means, I'd have a cage (and matching helmet/4 point harness) everyday.

The inner roof structure near your head does not resemble flat sheetmetal.  It's not the unsupported roof skin we are talking about.  The inner structure has sharp bends, exposed places where panels overlap, etc.  There is nothing rounded or "giving" about it.   

The metal headliner trim piece (which is the easiest thing my head hits on a 2nd-gen) has a right-angle bend facing almost directly at your skull.  Even a bare un-padded rollbar might not hurt your head any worse than that. 


Like I said, I agree that rollbars are dangerous.  I just don't agree that the OEM roof near your head is remotely safe. 

[chargervert]

My friend Rick posted a photo of the 73 Road Runner that was T boned like this Charger was,on Moparts in a thread about this crash.  Check it out, you won't believe the carnage!

[orange383]

My friend Rick posted a photo of the 73 Road Runner that was T boned like this Charger was,on Moparts in a thread about this crash.  Check it out, you won't believe the carnage!

Do you have link? I couldn't find it.

[chargervert]

It is on page 1 of the moparts general section.  The thread title says 2 dead on Dodge park blvd. The Road Runner picture is on page 2 of the thread.

[GreenMachine]

My friend Rick posted a photo of the 73 Road Runner that was T boned like this Charger was,on Moparts in a thread about this crash.  Check it out, you won't believe the carnage!

Do you have link? I couldn't find it.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2506112/3.html

[orange383]

My friend Rick posted a photo of the 73 Road Runner that was T boned like this Charger was,on Moparts in a thread about this crash.  Check it out, you won't believe the carnage!

Do you have link? I couldn't find it.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2506112/3.html

Thank you GreenMachine.