Head comparrison

[chrint]

I'm having a look at building a 440/512 street strip engine, there is so many choices on heads these days.
Has anyone done a comparison on Trickflow vs edelbrock vs ez-1 heads I'm looking for around the 650 of each for this application also the best intake that will fit under the hood of a 1969 doge charger.
The choice of cam being hydrolic roller or solid roller.
I want to achieve power as low down the rpm range as possible, to make the car great for street car package.
Also the best fitting headers for my application that fit without any mods.
I'm building a real street sleeper to upset some chev drivers lol.

[XH29N0G]

Not often do I see sleeper and charger used together.  Hearing about it as it develops will be fun.

I am not the person who knows the most about the heads so I will keep quiet.

[chrint]

Yeh an RT/SE Charger is a statement in its own right, but one that is a concourse appearing car apart from under the hood with big cubes and HP I dig, as I have a 69 Mach-1 mustang 476 ci which I have built as that 600 plus HP and a factory manual car is fun on the street.
If anyone wants to see some pictures I would be more than happy to share them.

[XH29N0G]

I would (and I am sure others would) love to see pictures, but you have questions to get answered here, so maybe another thread.

[chrint]

Yes will do, hopefully we can get some fellow members to give some feedback on my questions.

[BSB67]

I would (and I am sure others would) love to see pictures, but you have questions to get answered here, so maybe another thread.

And any track data you have too.

Big solid roller and 2" headers might not meet everyone's definition of a street sleeper.  Just sayin.

[Challenger340]

It's a BIG car, TORQUE is King on the Street.

You can DO anything you want in a BB Mopar Wedge Engine, after all,  these Engines have been around for 60+ years ? So not a whole bunch has NOT been done with them ?
Torque is attainable...
However,
one of the things that is difficult "hp" wise where you want to go for the application.. is fitting an Intake Manifold UNDER the factory '69 Charger R/T SE Hood ? Invariably clearing the Hood can limit the Intake Manifold design so critical to higher rpm HP production, "HP" being a function of RPM !

Like I said, ANYTHING can be done !
But are you willing to SPEND for a hand fabricated Intake Manifold ? NOT LIKELY !

Just a suggestion here....
but rather than dictating the Engine ?

Why not just say how "fast" you want to go on the Street with a '69 Charger R/T SE ? and what parts are currently present on the Charger ? Tire/Gearing/Fuel System and on and on.
Then it becomes REALLY easy to say to use.... this... this... this... and THIS ?

12's ? 11's ? 10's ? 9's ?

[chrint]

something in the 10's would be my goal, luckily for me is I'm starting from scratch with my Charger restoration so up grading to a larger diameter fuel line is an easy fix. Machanical fuel pump, water pump
Lets not forget this car will be mainly driven on the Country roads of South Australia  the car won't be in traffic rather out on a country road .
As stated my target is around the 650 mark but the torque figure is what I'm after not the high HP.
Diff gears will be around 3.5-3.7 ratio, modified 727 with stall to suit power range, tyre size around 27inch tall 17' magnum 500 style circle racing rims .
Surely there is a nice combination out there with a compatible intake being single four barrel or 2x4 set up.
My 69 Mustang runs a original 1967 Shelby 2x4 intake with twin TRP custom carbs with edelbrock ported heads and the biggest crane hydrolic roller they supply, big Harland sharp rockers and 3.7 gears with factory BB top loader, tyre hight is 27.4'' tall .
The engine produces around 600 of each and is very well mannered on the street.
I want the same with my Charger but a little more power, plus my Charger is a Auto which will make it more fun.
Hope this helps, lets not go over the top 650 is around what i'm chasing there has to be a nice combo for me out there guys, doesn't edelbrock make like a high rise dual plane style 2x4 intake as an example .

[c00nhunterjoe]

A 10 second 69 charger with 3.55 gears on 17 inch magnum 500s is NOT going to be an easy task, let alone making it a sleeper.

[chrint]

Lets get back to the engine  part of it and you guys don't have to worry how the car looks that's up to the individual.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Ok, define "street sleeper" before we start building an engine.

[Challenger340]

650 Ft/Lbs on a 4.25" Stroke RB Wedge can be done any number of ways, I'm Dyno'ing one we just finished next week.  
Once I've looked at the data/parts used again on this one with a Victor Jr / Solid F.T. Cam, I'll plug in some low-rise Intake data on file, and try some Roller Lobes on the 'puter engine sim to see what happens.  
We're never off by more then 5-10 HP and Ft/Lbs these days from what they Dyno at when done ..... versus..... the Computer Sim data we build off initially.

May I ask here, as you are apparently in Australia.
WHO is going to Machine/Build your Engine ?
Just say'in....
you know the old saying about "only a fool has himself for a Lawyer" ?  
well....
I dunno how many Engine Builder's will take kindly to YOU ?...... telling THEM ?...... how to build an Engine ?     And Engines by "Committee", IMO, are typically NOT the best recipe.

It may be worth considering just finding a reputable Engine Shop in your area with experience in all things Mopar..... telling them what you want, and just let THEM do what THEY want to achieve your goals ?

PS: Seeing as how you said
"Lets not forget this car will be mainly driven on the Country roads of South Australia  the car won't be in traffic rather out on a country road ."

may I also ask WTF you need anywhere near 650 ft/lbs for on a country road ?

[BDF]

 

[c00nhunterjoe]

I love having gobs of torque at my disposal, but i am running a drivetrain and tire to put it to the ground. The tire combo posted above will not hold a 450 hp build.... agreed again on machinists not liking you coming in with "the internet" peoples ideas. But i would suspect that they will reccomend a 572 based on wanting tame sleeper apearance and sound and a 3.55 final gear. More cubes, milder it can be amd sound and still make a crapton of torque.

[PRH]

650ft/lbs from a 505??
Easy peasy.

10.75:1-11:1, Stage II rpm's, std EZ's, TF240's, street roller, nice headers, 6bbl.

Or, EZ-1's/TF270's and the Indy dual plane, 950 carb.

How close you get to 650hp will depend on how long of a camshaft you can tolerate.

[chrint]

Give or take 15-20 HP and thank you for a sensible answer, and I suppose same goes for the slightly larger 512 bit easier big more cubes.

[morepower]

that's easy but when you have a 500 inch wedge engine and a big cam and big headers it definitely won't sound like a sleeper.

if you really wanted a sleeper you'd build a twin turbo engine with some muffled exhaust and not a super radical camshaft.

[69wannabe]

My charger is what most people around here call a sleeper, the 493 ci with prepped stealth heads, XE284 cam, rpm intake and 850 holley dp carb has all the power that a street driven would need I think. Estimated from looking at lots of other engine dyno posts i should be around 550 hp and 590 to 600 tq with what I have which is mildly built with the cam and headman headers with 2 1/2 pipes out the back with turbo mufflers. I has a good idle but when you are going down the road the turbo mufflers are smooth and deep and mostly quiet. Even when I stand on it the noise is still very mild and most people that hear the car don't think much of it except for the few that have rode in it. Of course the 15 inch magnums with BFG's basically just spin away in first gear like you are on ice and mostly through second gear too it's still fun having the power and torque to play with. From a roll it will get moving faster than most and that's a good thing too.....

[c00nhunterjoe]

For what its worth; i am in the general area of power you are desiring. My car is useless on 12 inch wide street tires in any gear. I can roll into the throttle in 3rd gear at 50mph and smoke starts rolling. At that power level, the complete package is important if you plan to keep a legitimate 10 second car between the ditches on the street.
  That said- depending on if you have a real machine shop that knows how to port heads. The edelbrocks can be made to make that power. If not, consider the max wedge port indys or the higher end trick flows as stated above. The heads will make or break your combo.

[69wannabe]

What he said (coonhunterjoe). Heads are a vital part of your build as are compression, cam choice, and induction. A well matched combo will do well but if you want all the power put to the ground then the chassis will have to be worked with and tires will have to be chosen to make it hook to the road. Mine does fine once you are rolling pretty good with the 355 gear but if you nail it in first gear it's gonna spin rolling or not rolling. Some good DOT street slicks and mine would hook good i'm sure but there might be transmission and rear end parts scattered everywhere if it actually grabbed good, LOL...