Another Sad Day, school shooting

[JB400]

This one in Houston:  8-10 confirmed dead, all students, 3 in hospital. 1 officer, 1 adult, 1 student

2 in custody

[Ponch ®]

Today's kids are f-ed up beyond belief, and it's not the guns.

[JB400]

Explosives found as well

[JB400]

10 confirmed dead, 9 students 1 substitute teacher

10 injured

[A383Wing]

What about the school bus that collided with the truck, what about the plane crash that only had 3 survivors.....

[alfaitalia]

...oh yeah.....well I guess that makes it acceptable then! LOL!

[A383Wing]

...oh yeah.....well I guess that makes it acceptable then! LOL!

Just curious here....what's so damned funny??

[alfaitalia]

Well.....and correct me if I'm wrong....but you are implying that lots of people have died in other ways so yet ANOTHER mass shooting at one of your schools should not be taken out of context. The incidents you quote were accidents....school shootings are not.

And before someone says it...yes we have a completely unacceptable level of knife crime in some UK cities at the moment.....but unlike you we will actually do something about it.....just like we did after a couple of mass shooting back in the 80s...after which we banned handguns.....hey guess what....next to no mass shootings since then. Im sure its just a coincidence though because its not guns that kill, its people....yeah right!! I was not going respond to that post as if anyone outside the US mentions guns it usually kicks off on here so I wont say anything else....otherwise the thread will be closed for getting political and against the rules.

As always its a tragedy when kids die (or anyone else I guess....but children in particular)....no matter how it happened so hopefully this threads can be kept respectful.

[Mike DC]

 
How do we "ban guns" in the USA?  This country has as many guns as it does cars & trucks on the roads.  Making them illegal wouldn't do shit to prevent criminals from getting them, to put it bluntly.  They would still be cheap & easy to get on the black market 30 years later.  The criminals wouldn't turn in their guns for a ban (and neither would tens of millions of non-criminals).  The police wouldn't stop carrying guns (nor could they afford to).        


I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything or that we don't have a problem.  But it's unrealistic to apply solutions from other circumstances to here.  This country was a pretty rural unsettled place until the last 75 years or so and guns have been in mass production/sales here for centuries.  This situation took a long time to build up and NOTHING will change it very quickly.  We also have a generally ugly situation for the poor & middle classes today.  The wealth/prosperity gap has been growing for like 40-50 years now.  Rats in a cage do more fighting when you start withdrawing the food supply.  We have society-wide problems and more shootings are one of the symptoms.  

 
IIRC, the per-capita gun murder rate here is still nothing outrageous by worldwide standards.  (Gotta watch the data sources carefully.  If they are counting "gun deaths" then the figures will be 3x as high because of all the gun suicides.)  It gets even milder if we set aside the worst 10-15 urban ghetto areas.  Tons of US shootings are concentrated in a handful of places.  Millions of other US citizens can go their whole lives and never personally see a gun outside of a policeman's holster.  

[JB400]

Best way for America to fix it's gun problem is for the people to not want them anymore.  Unfortunately, there are too many that do want them, and have made having them a part of their lives, whether it's a recreational shooter, officer, hunter, criminal, or someone that's paranoid and ready for Martian invasion.

[NHCharger]

Alf- trying to compare gun control in the UK versus the USA is two opposite ends of the spectrum. Unlike the UK the USA has one of the longest unguarded borders in the world. If we banned guns, with in a year gun smuggling would rival illegal drug smuggling. And we all know how well our war on illegal drugs is doing. Banning guns would only embolden criminals, knowing that homeowners and citizens could no longer have a fighting chance to defend themselves. We would need to close our borders to regulate the smuggling of illegal firearms. And the politicians that a screaming for gun control are the same ones that are demanding open borders.

Compare the cities of Houston Tx and Chicago. They are close in population, Houston  has multiple gun stores, Chicago has a gun ban, compare the murder rates.

Why doesn't the MSM publish the number of lives saved on a yearly basis due to gun ownership? Because that doesn't fit their agenda. One study showed that annually an estimated 1.2 million people use a gun to defend themselves and 1 in 6 felt that they or someone they were protecting would have died if they did not have the ability to defend themselves. There are no "hard" numbers on the actual number of people who used a gun to defend themselves. Even if that 1.2 million number was cut in half that's still tens of thousands of innocent lives saved on a yearly basis.

If they did manage to ban all guns the bad guys would just find another way to kill people. How many people including children did Timothy McVeigh kill with a fertilizer bomb and a U-haul truck?

Banning guns is just the convenient feel good answer. Why are we punishing millions of innocent citizens for the acts of a few sick people.

Approximately 15-20 people are killed in the USA on a weekly basis due to teens texting while driving. that's almost 1,000 people a year. Can you imagine the uproar from all the teens if we proposed to ban cell phones for teenagers???

In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol related car crashes, including 214 children. Why aren't the politicians screaming to ban alcohol?
Ok, time to get off the pulpit, I need a beer.

[odcics2]

Ban idiots.

[Ponch ®]

And the politicians that a screaming for gun control are the same ones that are demanding open borders.

...and the ones who say banning guns wouldnt work (for the reasons you stated) are the same ones who push for the drug war and against legalization. It's a circular argument, and hardly anyone on either side ever follows some type of consistent logic when it comes to these things.

[John_Kunkel]

When ........ are outlawed, only outlaws will have ........

[Ponch ®]

When ........ are outlawed, only outlaws will have ........

"I don't care that out of millions of_________, it is only a few that______; we need to get rid of all of them, because we cant have one more_______again. We need to do something, and those people are just gonna have to live with it"

[krops cars]

The 2 in custody. Media will talk and talk about them. They will end up in prison where they get to watch tv get free meals and a weight room. Don't forget free cable.

[AKcharger]

 The average teen has simulated shooting, killing and maiming THOUSANDS of people in first person shooter games(FPS) How can the government certify someone to fly a commercial airliner using only a video simulation program in 20 hours but "experts" claim years using a FPS shooter program doesn't even factor into someone's behavior???
1st and easiest thing is ban guns in video games why isn't this even discussed! 

[Mike DC]

  

1st and easiest thing is ban guns in video games why isn't this even discussed! Twocents

1st Amendment.  

It's a longstanding precedent that we don't hold fictional media responsible for causing real-life behavior.  

Video games stopped being only a children's thing decades ago.  They do have a rating system already.  But most kids see plenty of R-rated movies before they are 17yo and they play plenty of adult video games.

[Ponch ®]

 

1st and easiest thing is ban guns in video games why isn't this even discussed! Twocents

1st Amendment.  

It's a longstanding precedent that we don't hold fictional media responsible for causing real-life behavior.  

Video games stopped being only a children's thing decades ago.  They do have a rating system already.  But most kids see plenty of R-rated movies before they are 17yo and they play plenty of adult video games.

I've always found it particularly curious how some of the fiercest defenders of the 2nd amendment as an untouchable, almost holy right "because it's in the Constitution" often seem to be totally ok with the infringement and/or curbing of other equally important Constitutional rights (ie. freedom of speech/press/religion, due process, etc) , because "it's common sense" or "it's for the greater good."

[Mike DC]

We only respect the Bill of Rights because we've had for 200 years.  The public would never support a lot of that stuff for the first time today.  

[Ponch ®]

We only respect the Bill of Rights because we've had for 200 years.  The public would never support a lot of that stuff for the first time today.  

Oh I get that. But it really is befuddling how some people can, on the one hand, say that "X" right is not to EVER be messed with, but Y and Z...well maybe, if it involves something that they find offensive or un-'murrican.

[AKcharger]

 

1st and easiest thing is ban guns in video games why isn't this even discussed! Twocents

1st Amendment.  

It's a longstanding precedent that we don't hold fictional media responsible for causing real-life behavior.  

Video games stopped being only a children's thing decades ago.  They do have a rating system already.  But most kids see plenty of R-rated movies before they are 17yo and they play plenty of adult video games.

I've always found it particularly curious how some of the fiercest defenders of the 2nd amendment as an untouchable, almost holy right "because it's in the Constitution" often seem to be totally ok with the infringement and/or curbing of other equally important Constitutional rights (ie. freedom of speech/press/religion, due process, etc) , because "it's common sense" or "it's for the greater good."

Well, you can't just go out and buy a machine gun in real life...perhaps the same should be in video games?

[Troy]

   

1st and easiest thing is ban guns in video games why isn’t this even discussed! Twocents

1st Amendment. 

It's a longstanding precedent that we don't hold fictional media responsible for causing real-life behavior. 

Video games stopped being only a children's thing decades ago.  They do have a rating system already.  But most kids see plenty of R-rated movies before they are 17yo and they play plenty of adult video games.

I've always found it particularly curious how some of the fiercest defenders of the 2nd amendment as an untouchable, almost holy right "because it's in the Constitution" often seem to be totally ok with the infringement and/or curbing of other equally important Constitutional rights (ie. freedom of speech/press/religion, due process, etc) , because "it's common sense" or "it's for the greater good."

Well, you can't just go out and buy a machine gun in real life...perhaps the same should be in video games?

By that logic, you can't fight zombies, fly a Russian fighter jet, jump your car over a building, compete in the Olympics, control professional athletes in made up scenarios, or save Princess Peach. Might as well make video games about sitting on the couch and texting.

And, technically, you can buy a machine gun - you just have to fill out a lot of forms, pay the government, and wait a long time.

Troy

[Ponch ®]

Well, you can't just go out and buy a machine gun in real life...perhaps the same should be in video games?

or Ozzy albums? or copies of the Matrix? or Stephen King books?

I think you can kinda see what the problem with that is once you start going down that road of blaming entertainment. Video games don't kill people. People kill people.

[Mike DC]

              
Media does influence people.  No doubt.  But our culture has made a general decision that's it's not worth it to write laws that way.   

Laws can't always take the most logical/effective approach to things.  Sometimes it conflicts with other moral principles, or creates slippery slopes, etc.