"B" block stroker questions

[Bad B-rad]

I would like to build a "B" engine stroker.
My plan was to use a kit from 440 source,on a 400 block.
Use 440 source stealth heads, and a Mopar aluminum 4Bbl intake(cast iron copy) and paint them to look factory.
Then use the HP/4Bbl exhaust manifolds, again so it looks stock.
So my question is about stroker choice. If I am using a 400 block, and I go to 500Ci will the Mopar intake manifold,will be able to feed it enough air?
I do not think my cam choice would have me twisting the motor past 5,500rpm, as I want a street, not strip
As far as would someone, if using the factory intake manifold, be better off doing a 440 engine and stroking it to 500CI?



I know that a stock carb will not feed the extra CI, but I figure a upgraded carb will be easy to hide under the stock air cleaner.
(And is the Mopar aluminum 4Bbl gonna choke the engine so much that I should just get an Edelbrock Preformer RPM, and paint it?)

My idea was to restore my car to stock looks, and build a clone to the #'s 383, except with more power.
I want to drive the car a lot. I have had bad ass street strip 440's before, and I want more of a cruiser, but I would like to not get my ass handed to me by my wife in her 2016 R/T.
So I figured a stroker with stealth heads, would do the trick, but what stroker? All the sizes cost the same, so do I go 451/470/500/512?
Keeping in mind total monster power is not my goal, my goal is more power the stock, and a nice cruiser

I am gonna use the stock intake, should/do I need the ported stealth heads?

And lastly I see they offer a kit to rebuilt a 440 with their light weight crank,rods,pistons, to stock stroke, how much better would that run, with stealth heads, vs a stock 440 magnum?

[Bad B-rad]

Oh few other things, I want to use a 3.23 rear, MAYBE, MAYBE 3.55, but that's it, I would also use the 2000-2300 stall converter, if that would be helpful, but NO 3,000/3500 stall,like my last 440 charger!!!
LOL!

[Nacho-RT74]

I'm running 451 on 3.55 SG with 175K MP converter, 27" wheels, 2.5" pipes, flowmonsters SS muflers, basic performer intake, stock iron 452 ported heads with big valves. Stock HP exhaust manifolds, Rev-N-Nator module, MSD Blaster 2 coil, MP dist, firecore wires, NGK grooved spark plugs, stock TQ carb ( 6322 ). Crower 282HDP camshaft, PRW SS adjustable rockers

No stroker kit, basic stock 440 forged crank cut, and KB215 pistons.

Never took to a Dyno, but aside some pinging I'm trying to fix at this moment ( engine is dissasembled  with a better decking job to get good quench, I got happy.

Sure need to learn how to tune it better... ignition time, mixture etc...

AND EVERYTHING PAINTED AS STOCK,

[Challenger340]

We machined and built a 451 Cubic Inch in a 400 Block last year for a collection, they wanted as close to stock "appearance" as possible for a high dollar "383" appearing restoration they wanted to DRIVE in summers, hence very similar to your goals using painted/ported Stealth Heads, factory hp exhaust manifolds, etc., etc., biggest initial difference I see to what you are doing was we used a performer rpm Intake hidden under the BIG Dual Snorkel air cleaner

I'll go dig out the Final Dyno Sheet when I get some time.... but from my recollection we ended up at 510hp and 550 Ft/Lbs through the 2 1/4" H-Pipe Exhaust/Factory HP Exhaust Manifolds, and equally restrictive Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner, and all done by 5300 rpm I think ?
The added criterion we had to deal with..... was because this was a muffler'd and full Exhaust application, the Engine had to be VERY Quiet !, in other words none of the all so common Piston "slap" noise typically associated with lower Compression Distance Forged Stroker Pistons combination you are contemplating ?

We ended up doing a custom 4032 Forging on the 383 Rod Length, and moving the Piston skirt break point..... PERFECT ! Nice & Quiet and they were very happy with it !

just say'in....
it can be done.... but there are a number of issues to address for best results, not the least of which also is CAMSHAFT design, wherein there can be problems with using any "off the shelf" streetable Camshaft, even one rated for 6,500 rpm, that is going to make power with those parts(hp Manifolds/Intake) much past even low 5,000's.  

[Bad B-rad]

I'm running 451 on 3.55 SG with 175K MP converter, 27" wheels, 2.5" pipes, flowmonsters SS muflers, basic performer intake, stock iron 452 ported heads with big valves. Stock HP exhaust manifolds, Rev-N-Nator module, MSD Blaster 2 coil, MP dist, firecore wires, NGK grooved spark plugs, stock TQ carb ( 6322 ). Crower 282HDP camshaft, PRW SS adjustable rockers

No stroker kit, basic stock 440 forged crank cut, and KB215 pistons.

Never took to a Dyno, but aside some pinging I'm trying to fix at this moment ( engine is dissasembled  with a better decking job to get good quench, I got happy.

Sure need to learn how to tune it better... ignition time, mixture etc...

AND EVERYTHING PAINTED AS STOCK,

Yeah Nacho-RT74, thats  to fancy for me.
I have had 440's with all that, before, every fancy part money could buy, and I don't want that.
I do NOT want  adjustable rockers, don't want an MSD distributer. I don't want the rev-a-nator box

My thoughts were Chrysler made these as cars 50+ years ago, And I want to use it as such.
SO that is goal#1, for it to be plesent to drive.
Then goal#2 not get blown out of the water by 85% of every modern car.
I would think I would be happy with, the build Challenger340 was speaking of.

If my 69 could run with my buddies 2016 Charger Scat Pack(392) That would be great!
I also do not want to be wrenching on it every other weekend, I want to build it, tune it, drive it.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Purchase a good set of rockers and you wont be adjusting them. Thats an old myth. The rpm intake will fit and look stock painted engine color especially under a stock air cleaner. Look at bsb67s engine picture on the dyno. Russ's engine looks stock right down to the stock exhaust manifolds but runs low 11s with the shifter in d and just cruising down the strip with 3.23s.

[John_Kunkel]

goal#1, for it to be plesent to drive.
Then goal#2 not get blown out of the water by 85% of every modern car.

That might not be as easy as it sounds.

[Bad B-rad]

goal#1, for it to be plesent to drive.
Then goal#2 not get blown out of the water by 85% of every modern car.

That might not be as easy as it sounds.

You MAY be correct!!!
But my 2016 Charger R/T can do it. well cruise nice, and then hang with the SRT boys(I am running 4.5 sec 0-60), but I know the A8 is a lot of help)

I have a 5.7 short block, and My buddy is upgrading his Scat Pack, and may go forged 392, so I could maybe score his engine, but I just want more of that instant torque, our big blocks make.

I like cOOnhunter joe's thought of Russ's engine. But I maybe able to go down a few pegs from him, I Don't have to beat every and all comers.
And with the forged pistons, and the rings opened up a tad, I could rock a 150 top shot of N2O if I needed a little extra.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Russ's engine is far from wild. It is quite tame. His is extremely well planned out and executed. Many guys on here run alot more cam then he is and have headers. He will be the 1st to tell you that a cam swap and headers will pick up a ton of power on his mill, but thats not what he wanted.

[Bad B-rad]

Are there build posts of his combo on here I can follow?

[c00nhunterjoe]

I dont think so. But its a 500, ported eddy heads, rpm intake, hp manifolds that i beleive he gasket matched/cleaned up, and a custom spec cam. I dont think he advertises the exact specs on the cam. If he doesnt post soon, try pming him.

[Bad B-rad]

K thanks.

[BSB67]

It in here somewhere

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/post-your-500ci-street-strip-combos-with-et.144181/page-2

And here

http://508charger.yolasite.com

[Bad B-rad]

THAT is suck a sexy engine!!!!!!
Looks GREAT!!!!
I think I still would like to stick with a 383/400 "B" engine.
I got so much to think about!!!!

[c00nhunterjoe]

There it is, i was close. 

[Nacho-RT74]

I do NOT want  adjustable rockers, don't want an MSD distributer. I don't want the rev-a-nator box

Never told MSD dist, I told MP dist. Coil is the MSD... MP dist was got because original got damaged, but that was way before the stroker was built

I could live with stock rockers and pushrods, but had to change just because my block was baddly decked... so had to get 8.5" ( 0.05" smaller ) pushrods and adjustable rockers to prevent the bad decking job.

Rev-N-Nator box was because got tired of failed MP and FBO A688 ECU box ( 3 chromed and the FBO failed in 2 years ), not because I wanted to go fancy, just out of failures.

I also could get smaller cam but after get over 10:1 CR told myself, hell why not ? but I could install the magnum camshaft which I have NOS in hands.

forgot to say, everything down the stock dual snorkel air cleaner and A/C compressor.

Here a vid still with the FBO A688 ECU box ( and even the FBO coil which also failed ), on the second start up back in 2012 after the stroker was built and installed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsIv5mB6c_Q

I wouldn't say my engine is anything fancy really.

If you wanna stroke it and not to be fancy, I'd say you are not understanding what I made LOL, because I made something really close to what you want. When I open the hood NOBODY will tell is stroked . Sure I can get more juice from it being REALLY fancy, specially getting headers, intake, air cleaner and maybe carb ? ( for those doesn't like the 850 cfms TQs )

I'm so far from fanciness that I didn't even got the 440source kit, just worked which what I had in hands, but just bringing up the pistons to the stroker. Running stock 400 rods too.

You even told about buy 440soruce steel heads... I'm using the stock ones, just worked up

Performer intake is practically same than stock, just planes inverted and maybe 1/2" higher

[Nacho-RT74]

where is fancy ?

I can't see anything fancy



I use the A/C ( well, when my car was in one piece 5 years ago LOL ) daily on this stroker

[Nacho-RT74]

but of course, inners got something




Forgott to say, Hughes 1106 valve springs, which I got used at Carlisle ( 120 lbs sat )

[Bad B-rad]

where is fancy ?

I can't see anything fancy

You built what you wanted. good for you!! It  looks nice!
It's not exactly for me. I don't want the red coil mounted to fender, I would rather keep it on the intake.
And the rev-a-nator is a great product, but it is costly. I ran a chrome box for 15+ years no issues, maybe I just got lucky.(and I still haven't decided if I will go with the igniter style or not)
Nothing wrong with your combo, but its not for me or what I was asking about.

I was originally just gonna re-ring and re-bearing my stock (383)Motor, but for the price of the 440 source kit, I figured I would look into it a bit.
as I can look stock and get more power.

I personally want to do a dead on stock resto with my car.
If I was building my dream car, I would not pick a 3X green car,LOL, but thts what my car was, and I want to bring it back the way if left Dodge.
And that was with the 4Bbl 383. SO I think I want to stick with a 383 LOOKING motor.

[Nacho-RT74]

damn... I don't have any red coil onto the fender LOL... you can see it on the intake LOL... and still is ( well is the chromed MSD one at this moment )

Yes, Rev-N-Nator is costly now, but I got the first batch in a release offer... $110 or so. But it was more costly 4 ECUs in a 2 years row LOL. Didn't want 2 more in the next year for the same price of the Rev-N-Nator . I'd love to keep the Chromed MP box really, but wasn't posible.

well I got stock look and more power... stroking without spend $2K on a stroker kit

Not saying you must go the way I did, but I think you are a bit confused about what you want , because I got total stock look and got power

I actually dunno how MORE stock can be muy build, at least on exterior, aside just the intake which is just noticeable if you read the Edelbrock tittle on a close up. Cam and rockers ? they could be, sure... and that's your choice Pistons? they are a must on the stroker. Porting heads ? at each own.

[Bad B-rad]

Dude, every comment I make is not about your engine combo.
I was just trying to say I want a stock look.
I am sorry if it came across that way, that is not my intention but again, everything I type is not in reference to your combo.
(if I go stroker 451, would not be my choice, just my thoughts, I think I would want to be at  470 or 500CI)


And my main concern is if a stock B intake, and stock exhaust, would basicly strangle a 500CI engine to the point of making it a waste, to do.

SO I am not confused just not sure what road I will take.

And as nice as your combo is, dont think its the road I will take, that dosent make it "wrong", just not for me.

[Nacho-RT74]

don't worry, I'm not taking a critic to the combo LOL ( which sure maybe can get more power with some more stuff but I wanted stock look, same as you )... just saying I BUILT a stroker on STOCK look LOL. I meant... what on my engine bay is not stock look ? NOBODY can tell it is a stroker or is not stock

If you find anything on my engine bay away from the stock look, just let me know and I'll change it

[Nacho-RT74]

and yes, of course, the 451 is simply a 440 running into a B block, but I couldn't or either want to spend $2K going bigger... I simply got "accidentally" locally in hands a 440 forged crank and stroked. Somehow I still have 440 +0.042" because I bored my 400 to 0.020"( which actually makes 448 no 451 ), on the matching numbers 400 block. In other words I have a hidden and lighter 440 on my factory block.

You still can build the 500 on the stock look, like I did. Sure can get more power with more stuff like headers, but.. Is it doable on stock look ?, yes, like I did. ( BTW, one of your options on initial post was the 451 )

I could go for headers and RPM or any other intake, getting some extra horses, but simply didn't want loose my stock look. Is still street, so street that I run my A/C with confidence. Even the Choke is hooked stock. I can go even MORE street with the magnum If I get tired. You can heard the vid ( althought wasn't tuned completelly yet there, maybe a higher iddle )

And just paid the same than any stock build job, aside the crank counterweights cut and balancing jobs, which wasn't actually BADLY expensive.

[Bad B-rad]

No yours looks good, I have said that serval times!!!

I do not have a lot of cash, and work hard for everything I have so I always, "OVER THINK everything.
And  I basicly do not want to do it twice,LOL!
I think you said your engine had to come back apart for deck issues?

I dont want to wrench on it once its built, I am a union heavy equip mechanic, and I wrench on stuff all day everyday. So I just want to drive the car,LOL!!!!

I may have to step up to a 440 block, and follow Russ's engine.
That build sounds GREAT.
But my issue would be the Eddie heads wouldnt look stock, so I must get over that, or use the stealth heads.



On my original post I was listing the size kits that 440 source offers, that's all, as I also would not go 512


Challenger 340 pointed out a piston slap sound that may be an issue (or just an annoyance/ sound issue) with the 440 source short skirt pistons, in the "B" Block kits.

So I have to decide what I want and what is realistic, but I like to have every angle covered, and I would rather have as much info as I can in front of me to make my choice.


And at the end of the day, maybe this car will just get the #'s block re built and that will be that.

[Nacho-RT74]

another vid on my stroker "stock" build, which with a magnum cam will feel more stock for sure. Or something in the middle between Magnum and Crower 282HDP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrZo8-7uvDs

Yes I'm having deck issues but is not a build itself fault but local MACHINIST fault. I simply run into bad machine shops 3 times!!!! Trying to get it squared!!! 

I hope this time will be the last one. Mostly sure the pistons will leave the block 0.005 to 0.010". then will get squared/matched the combustion chambers ( open ) to get quench with the pistons deck height. I still can play with 0.039" or 0.052" felpro gaskets without need to go with Cometic ( which are EXPENSIVE ) or even add the felpro 0.020" copper shims. Everything of that in hands depending on the final job. Once again is not a build itself fault but machinist damages.

On a plug and play job with correctly decked block, the KB215 pistons should be 0.020" down the hole, where I was to use metallic headgaskets which I had in hands... not anymore posible now!

[Bad B-rad]

THAT sucks about the machine shop!!!
AGHHHH
Even if they do work for free(well correct the work they were paid to do in the first place, all that in and out and tearing engine down!!!

So the video is of the stock Magnum/RR cam?
Sweet, that's the cam I think I want.
My last 440 had a purple shaft, I think it was 284 and 474 lift.(Mopar numbers)
I also used the Mopar steel shim, but that was with worked 452 heads from Arrowhead,(INDY's cheap line parts)

[Bad B-rad]

What cam is in the video titled 2nd stroked 400 startup?


I am hard of hearing and in the one you posted link on here, it has a lot of background noise and the radio was on, on the one 2nd stroked 400 start up I can hear that one a lot more clearly, then the other.


Also it is VERY hard to tell via a video, and crappy lap top speakers(on my end) but when your standing in front of car, is that a valve train noise(or other engine tick) I am hearing?

Or is that just background noise, or echo?
Thanks.

[Nacho-RT74]

both vids are Crower 282HDP... just that on the first vid maybe timming was a bit advanced, getting higher iddle. engine wasn't really tuned yet, just was to get it run to break the cam and lifters.

yes on second vid there is a bit of valve train noise. Couldn't tell what it was. In person doesn't heard that loud. Well, that vid was taken maybe 6 years ago, 3 or 4 months after the engine was build. My car is in pieces since 5 years ago ( body job ).

[Bad B-rad]

Oh I mis read the first post.
It sounds nice at idle, wish you had cracked the throttle a few times!!!! So I could hear it bark!.

[c00nhunterjoe]

If cash is a deciding factor, then rebuilding and  porting iron heads to feed a 500 inch mill are out of the question. The eddy heads painted blue, with a powersteering pump and ac compressor lingering over them, will pass fine for stock. You can always media blast the face to give them the cast look.

[Bad B-rad]

THAT IS ENGINE PORN right there!!!!
WOW!!!!

Well the 440 source $1,000 buck stealths were what I was thinking, and if cash allows, then I spend the extra for their cnc porting, unless they suck.


I fired up the #'s 383 today,(idles a touch high) but she sounds good!!!! She is crisp, I cant wait, to get doing something.

[c00nhunterjoe]

That is russ's 11 second monster that idles at 750 rpm.... aluminum heads and all.

[BSB67]

The 2D intake is pretty tall and the eddy style head is obvious to a mopar enthusiast.  The Stealth heads can make the same power.  But there are so few mopar guys out there, you need to ask yourself who are you trying to fool.   9 out of 10 guys that look under the hood think it is stock until I tell  them otherwise.  People simply don't know what a stock 50 year old mopar looks like.

The CH4B with an AVS style 800 cam Eddy carb would look more stock,  but you'll give up power.  If you insist on the factory intake, your road and cost to make any real power will be tough and expensive

[Bad B-rad]

After seeing your combo, its not so bad, as the paint helps hide the parts.
I am not 100% dead set on the stock intake, or well the aluminum Mopar copy, that's what is on my 383 now, but I was wondering what the balance was.
And the only person I am trying to fool, is myself, because its my car, LOL.
Like I have said before I have had hot rods before, I want this one to be stock, well stock looking.
On a stock magnum cam 383/440(10:1), what would the stealth heads add?




I just saw a 496 build (stroked 383) and after the rebuild he started of with the stock 1967 2Bbl intake and carb, then went to the performer rpm intake and carb, and added 110HP, with just that change!!!!
I know my 4Bbl Mopar to performer rpm would not be as dramatic, but I have a lot to think about!!!