Help with 440 build down under

[TOY440]

Hey guys, writing from Sydney, Australia

I am about to embark on my 440 build. Have had the block cleaned, machined etc etc, it is now 40 thou over. It is going in a car that weighs about 1700kg (3750lbs) give or take. I currently have a 727 and 9inch rear with 3.9's.

I want to run a 10 down the quarter, or as close as I can to a 10.

Before I ask for potential suggestions, there are a few things to keep in mind: firstly: I will be using my factory forged crank to keep costs down (I understand I can stroke it, but the added costs of shipping, converting Aussie $$ to US $$, then paying GST to get the gear in the country, not looking to spend an extra $1 - $2k on top of cost of parts just to get it here, I could use that $3 - $5k+ on the top end, gearbox, custom headers etc), secondly: I also have a 4 inch reverse cowl bonnet, so I can go to a relative decent intake manifold, eg: tunnel ram, which I already have. Thirdly: as most of you on this site are from the US of A, please keep in mind my point about $$ conversion and the added costs I face, so it has to be a reasonably cost effective exercise (if such a thing exists haha), I dont mind buying heads, cam etc from the US, just not $5k+ on a bottom end when I can use my crank with a decent set of rods and pistons.

Might be worth noting that I can use 98 octane or e85 race blend which is 107 octane, all readily available at the pump.

Thanks in advance

[c00nhunterjoe]

If you are using a tunnel ram, i asusme you are prepared for some high rpm fun. Will be a blast. How radical are you going before i make any suggestions?

Edited.

10s in the 1/4 on a legit 440 is not hard to do. If you have 107 available, run a big piston, that will get you 11 or 12:1 on a set of nice max wedge port aluminum heads. Big roller cam to go with your tunnel ram and you will be well into the 10s.

[TOY440]

As radical as I need to. From the research I have done thus far, the calculations say I need somewhere between 550-600hp, so if I could build a combo close to that, I would be happy.

The car is primarily a street car, that will see the odd strip here and there, do a few shows, have some fun at said shows, melt the tyres in top gear, while being relatively competitive at street meets.

[c00nhunterjoe]

550hp is a cake walk. The package hust has to be made right. It will not be a tame streetwise as a bigger inch stroker, but it can be done easily with a 440. What is your idea of a streetable car? Idle quality, loose converters? Etc.

[TOY440]

Due to the fact the car will be hardly driven (read:not a daily driver, a few weekends a month at best), I'm not too worried about idle, as for converter, whatever is needed to mend the cam and the 3.9's together if that makes sense.

[c00nhunterjoe]

If this is more of a maximum performance possible build, then go for a piston that will give you the desired compression ratio to work with the cam and 108 octane available to you.  My current 440 does the job you are looking for propelling my 2 ton turd bucket into the 10s at 125mph in the dead of summer heat on a 9 inch tire and stock suspension.

https://youtu.be/p6kcOMgYxzY
https://youtu.be/ob5ESA6P9F4
https://youtu.be/wsQhqrPZg4c

[TOY440]

Nice effort.

Do you have a link on your build?

[c00nhunterjoe]

I did, but i cant find it. Mine is thrown together with a frankenstein of parts i had on the shelf leftover from years of drag racing. But its buildable by anyone as its nothing special.
-440 block. Mine happens to be 60 over.
-Dome pistons, they are a custom set from venolia, i will have to go by through and check what my static compression is after it was all said and done, but it runs on c12 race fuel, which is comparable to the 107 octane you have available. Think it ended up around 12 or 12.5:1 but the big cam brings the dynamic way down.
-out of the box indy 440-1 heads in max wedge port. A very old set, but no port work has been done.
-jesel valvetrain.
-large old crane solid roller, .750 lift .286@ .050 i think. Will have to pull the card to verify duration.
Hemi crank, i think i stuck a set of callies rods in it? I honestly cant recall but they are stock length parts.
My intake is a masterpeice... its an old edlebrock tm7 that has been cut and rewelded to maxwedge port... its what i could come up with on short notice to fit under the stock hood. Lmao. It will be changed out this season.
850hp holley double pumper.

Trans is a heavy duty built 727. Just about all the heavy duty, save your ankles parts. No need to list them all, no tricks. Reverse man valve body and an 8" converter that can flash over 6k if i push it. The launch in the video was at 1900 or 2000 as the stock suspension/ no cage wont hold anymore then that yet.

Dana 60 rear, full spool, 4.88 gears. 30x9 radial slicks.

Bone stock, origonal suspension. Only addition is 2x3 boxed frame connectors fully welded through the floor pans.

10 gallon cell, aeromotive pump, 1/2 line.

I think thats the basic rundown.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I will also add that there are alot of ways to skin a 10 second cat. Mine is only 1 of them. I would love to hear what a few of the other actual engine builders/ head porters on here suggest that will fit your bill for a 10 second legit 440 in a 3800lb b body.
  Mine will require valvetrain maintanance alot more then 90% of the street builds. With 700lbs of spring pressure i will most likely replace my valve springs biannually for good measure. I went with jesel rockers and oil spray bars for strength and peice of mind.

[TOY440]

I don't think something like that would suit street duties, especially 4.88 gears, but thanks for the insight

[c00nhunterjoe]

Thats why i asked what your version of streetable is. Everyones is different. Mine sees plenty of street use. The 63 max wedge has 5.13s in it with a 32 inch tall slick. Driven on the street all the time. Cruises quite nice at 50-55mph. I steer clear of highways as there are enough nutjobs on the roads, the higbways are insane around my area.
A 10 second true to form 440, is going to need to be a little more wild thenyour avg "street" car.
https://youtu.be/EmFknw4UmDY

[BSB67]

These things always come down to budget and what you call streetable, and whether those two will line up with your 10.99.  

Here are some general rules: In theory you can get to the 10s with a full on race suspension with power for a 120 - 121 mph trap speed.  But in reality, a street suspension wont 60 ft as well, so you have to make up the difference in hp (mph).  So, in general, you'll have a 3950 - 4000 lb race weight, and need to target a 124 -125 ish trap speed.  Now you need to take into account your track atmospheric conditions.  If you know what those are, you can then adjust your track target mph to standard conditions.  From there you can determine hp.  Then there are some net to gross hp adjustments that I make, but this is close enough.

I don't see you getting there with 550 hp without losing some weight and getting more serious about suspension or getting serious about track tuning. Like C00 said,  lots of compression, really good heads, big cam.  May or may not meet your definition for streetable.

[TOY440]

Yeah I see what you are saying, perhaps I should move the goal posts from a strip number that the car will hardly see, to a hp figure? My mate is running 11.5 in the same car as mine but a 2 door, his car is about the same weight as mine though he has a cage and a few other weight adders so he is a tad heavier than mine, he's making just under 440hp at the tyres, with a 360/408 W5, 727 and 9 inch like I have, he's putting some caltracs on in the next week or so.

So if he can produce that hp from a small block and a relatively baby cam, I don't want to be out done with a big block, so if I could make say 600hp+, then how would you go about it with relative street manners, say 3k - 4k stall, something that could melt tyres at will in any gear.

I see a lot is based on heads and cam?

[BSB67]

Yeah I see what you are saying, perhaps I should move the goal posts from a strip number that the car will hardly see, to a hp figure? My mate is running 11.5 in the same car as mine but a 2 door, his car is about the same weight as mine though he has a cage and a few other weight adders so he is a tad heavier than mine, he's making just under 440hp at the tyres, with a 360/408 W5, 727 and 9 inch like I have, he's putting some caltracs on in the next week or so.

So if he can produce that hp from a small block and a relatively baby cam, I don't want to be out done with a big block, so if I could make say 600hp+, then how would you go about it with relative street manners, say 3k - 4k stall, something that could melt tyres at will in any gear.

I see a lot is based on heads and cam?

What is his mph?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Your 1st goal is better imo. Set an et goal, not a hp goal. I hate the "i want an XXXhp motor" why? For what? Most guys will never truly use the hp they wish to attain. Your goal to run a specific et is a realistic goal. If a 440 required to run a 10.99 is not streetable, then move your desired et. An 11.50 440 is relativly mild in my opinion. Basicly take the 440 i described, drop 1 point in compression, drop to a .600-.625 solid flat tappet, 260 at half. Either keep the max wedge heads or run a heavily ported edlebrock. A 10" converter (3500-4k behind tbat mill) and a set of 4.10s and slicks will easily nail the 11.50 on stock suspension.

[TOY440]

121mph, 60ft is down though

[TOY440]

There is someone here running 10.80's with a factory 440, 10.5 comp 1st gen stealth heads that were hand ported flow about 290-300cfm, 263/270 @ 0.50 and 0.65 lift at 108 lobe separation, dual 850 carb tunnel ram, harland sharp 1.5 rockers, 3.9 rear end, though he weighs less that 1500kg.

I would have no issue if I were to run 11.5-12:1 comp

[c00nhunterjoe]

Who on this site has a charger that has a race weight of 3300 pounds with driver? That would have to be a stripped down full fiberglass shell to get the car to weigh 3100 lbs with all chromolly parts, and even then, im not sure it would be that light.

[TOY440]

Sorry, when I say here, I mean in Aus

[c00nhunterjoe]

Ah, got it. Well i would still like to hear details of how that car got down to that particular weight as i would be willing to bet that it is nowhere near a stock type street car anymore if it is a charger.

That car weighing so little, doesnt need more then the 3.90 gewrs to get moving, nor the horsepower required of a 2 ton charger. If you want to go fast in a 2 ton charger, you need horsepower. For a milder engine, you need a big stroker, if you stick with a 440, its going to be more towards the radical side. No other way around it.  You can get into the 10s with 590hp and 3800lbs, BUT the car will be a dedicated race car. Light weight trans, full race suspension, a ton of gear, super loose converter. There is 0 way around it.

[TOY440]

It's a Valuant ute, sorry mate, I should have specified

[BSB67]

Your 1st goal is better imo. Set an et goal, not a hp goal. I hate the "i want an XXXhp motor" why? For what? Most guys will never truly use the hp they wish to attain. Your goal to run a specific et is a realistic goal. If a 440 required to run a 10.99 is not streetable, then move your desired et. An 11.50 440 is relativly mild in my opinion. Basicly take the 440 i described, drop 1 point in compression, drop to a .600-.625 solid flat tappet, 260 at half. Either keep the max wedge heads or run a heavily ported edlebrock. A 10" converter (3500-4k behind tbat mill) and a set of 4.10s and slicks will easily nail the 11.50 on stock suspension.

I agree with this too.  But I like backing into a hp estimate to help put in perspective where the motor needs to go.

[BSB67]

121mph, 60ft is down though

For perspective, to get this to get to 10.99 on motor alone, he'll need to go about 126, i.e. add another 60 -70 hp.  or drop the 60 ft by 0.1 sec. and add 40 hp, or remove 500 lbs

[BSB67]

There is someone here running 10.80's with a factory 440, 10.5 comp 1st gen stealth heads that were hand ported flow about 290-300cfm, 263/270 @ 0.50 and 0.65 lift at 108 lobe separation, dual 850 carb tunnel ram, harland sharp 1.5 rockers, 3.9 rear end, though he weighs less that 1500kg.

I would have no issue if I were to run 11.5-12:1 comp

Put that motor in your car, assume the same 60 ft time, and it would run about 11.50 due to weight change alone.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I give it an 11.40 due to the tunnel ram.