suggestions for 30 x 40 Shop plans!

[Harper]

I am wanting to build a 30 by 40 shop. I looking at starting with a slab, then do a pole barn over it then close it in. Hopefully 2018 will allow me to complete this task along with the other 1000 things i need to get done lol
What are some basic lay outs for said shop! thanks in advance
posted are a couple pictures of the lot i plan to build on.

the red reflector is about 32 ft from the sidewalk. We have no zoneing laws in our small town, so I am pretty much free to build as i see fit, however i do want it to be something with wood frame and wood rafters with metal siding, metal roof.

[JB400]

My only recommendation is to build it with trusses, so you can have an open floor plan.  I'd also put the air compressor outside so you won't have to listen to it run all the time.

[70 sublime]

Does it get cold where you are that you will need heat ?

If so I would consider in floor heating
Just need to put some pipes in the concrete when it is being poured and maybe a layer of some kind of insulation under the the slab area first
Consider where you might like to put a car lift in some day and leave a couple spots pipe free that you will not have to worry about drilling into the floor for anchor bolts

[69rtse4spd]

Looks like a creek in the back, does it ever flood, what's the high water mark in the area. What's the crime rate in town, kids stuff or bigger, the door lay out will also matter, on the side so your not blocking traffic going in & out the front. No windows, out of sight out of mind, & are you going to live next door. Just a few of my  , worth others will chime in with better ideas. If a lift down the road at least 6 inch thick or thicker concrete in that area.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Thats essentially what i have, pretty sure im 30x48 but would have to measure to be 100%. Its stick built but not a pole barn. Insulated, standard height ceiling. I am long ways, so 2 bay doors, 2 cars deep. I use the mr heater from northern tool, 50,000 btu unit to heat. Works great, hooked up for propane. Large window unit for ac. Also works great. Insulation is key for hot and cold.

https://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200577749_200577749?adv=false

[Harper]

My only recommendation is to build it with trusses, so you can have an open floor plan.  I'd also put the air compressor outside so you won't have to listen to it run all the time.

i agree with both of those suggestions. The Air Compressor will definitely be outside or in its own little room (that is insulated for noise reduction).

Looks like a creek in the back, does it ever flood, what's the high water mark in the area. What's the crime rate in town, kids stuff or bigger, the door lay out will also matter, on the side so your not blocking traffic going in & out the front. No windows, out of sight out of mind, & are you going to live next door. Just a few of my  Twocents, worth others will chime in with better ideas. If a lift down the road at least 6 inch thick or thicker concrete in that area.

highest point in town, never floods. There is a small creek behind, but its no issue. Crime rate is minimal due to the population being nearly 340 (most of those or on out skirts). Small town, and we have a cop who does pretty well at keeping tabs on everything. I will have an alarm system and cameras however.

yea 30x40 i will place it side ways (otherwise) if i get ready to add onto it length wise , i can add 20, 30, 40 more feet when time and money allow. (my retirement plans are to add an additional 40 ft on the east end for a small autoparts store.
My plans were two big doors and two small doors. initial plans are for an area to put at least one car on a rotisserie maybe two at a time. I will still keep a majority of my parts at my home shop.

the layout inside isnt finalized, but i would like two big roll up doors, one on each side, and two walk thru doors one on each side. The side by the sidewalk will be faceing NORTH. (that green part is what i plan to add later on as a "lean to" for storage, etc.

the yellow is the concrete leading in and out. The two post lift may be moved not sure where exactly i want it, but it will be finalized before concrete is poured. drawing NOT TO SCALE lol

note * i am only less than 2 miles away, and i pass by this area 3-4 times a day.

[68X426]

I recommend an eight foot height on the car doors.  At seven feet there's lots of trucks and gear that won't clear.  Nine or ten is even better, but eight is practical.

An eight foot door(s) requires specifically designed and engineered headers and trusses (at least here in highly regulated California).  So you would want to hire a structurally engineer.

A seven foot door might not need anything extra in your state.

You cannot have too many electrical outlets.  No kidding, three or four on each wall side, at least four on the ceiling.

And lots of overhead light fixtures, we have four very large fluorescents (in a 30x40) and we should have gone with six.  It's dark in the corners and sides.  Skip sunlight panels and solar tubes, they just don't do the job. 

[Harper]

I recommend an eight foot height on the car doors.  At seven feet there's lots of trucks and gear that won't clear.  Nine or ten is even better, but eight is practical.

An eight foot door(s) requires specifically designed and engineered headers and trusses (at least here in highly regulated California).  So you would want to hire a structurally engineer.

yes i will need room for a 2 post lift so that will probably put me at 12 ft (not many regulations out in the country in Alabama)

A seven foot door might not need anything extra in your state.

You cannot have too many electrical outlets.  No kidding, three or four on each wall side, at least four on the ceiling.

My dad always said the same thing, so My current shop has 12 outlets 6 on each wall, and 6 in the ceiling lol so this one will be no exception... as I do all my own wiring

And lots of overhead light fixtures, we have four very large fluorescents (in a 30x40) and we should have gone with six.  It's dark in the corners and sides.  Skip sunlight panels and solar tubes, they just don't do the job.  Twocents

I have found that white walls help reflect the light, I will more than likely go with 4 or 6 ft LEDS shop lights, I currently have some those (LEDS) in my home shop 24x24 and it does pretty well.

[John_Kunkel]

And lots of overhead light fixtures, we have four very large fluorescents (in a 30x40) and we should have gone with six.  

I have 15 8-foot fluorescents (two-bulb fixtures) in my 30 X 40 shop and am slowly converting them to LED...big difference. Consider going with LED's from the git go.

[alfaitalia]

Big difference in light output or power saving? The workshop I hire for my build had all the strip lights converted to led for power saving reasons....and I just converted them all back to flouro. I pay for the power so it was my choice! I find led light to be bright but harsh. It's difficult to describe but it's almost like even though it's brighter I can actually see less. When working on body panels under led I struggled to see the lines that easily show up now. To be honest I find the same with led car and domestic lighting....it's just not a nice might...bright but no penetration....if that makes sense. Anyone with led car spot lights on a 4x4 should know what I mean....maybe!

[JB400]

Then, I'd recommend going with the ones you can put on a dimmer switch.  Dial in the lighting to your own preference.

[John_Kunkel]

I find led light to be bright but harsh. It's difficult to describe but it's almost like even though it's brighter I can actually see less.!

Keep in mind that LED light strips come in different color temperatures, the higher Kelvin numbers might, indeed, be too bright.

The 4000K lights in my shop are a vast improvement over fluorescents....especially in cold weather.

[Todd Wilson]

Build a 60x80 with radiant floor heat and a floor area solid enough for a lift........


Todd

[Harper]

Build a 60x80 with radiant floor heat and a floor area solid enough for a lift........

yea we are making it thicker where we plan to put the lifts, and if i could i would build 80 x100 but that probably wont happen in 2018

[Harper]

ok i talked to my concrete guy, and the concrete supplier. He is coming out Monday to look at what we got and to get a final game plan together.

It's looking like the concrete will be $115 per yard looking at around 15 yards of concrete
30' x 40' 4 inch's thick about $1800 plus about $1000 for the guy to level it, form it, pour it and smooth it. it will include J bolts for my future walls (poor man gotta do it a little at a time)


ok so i know I need a min of 6 inch's of concrete at pads where i plan to install a 2 post lift. I have those dimensions and the lay out for that.
I am going to do two areas for QTY (2) two post lifts in case one day i can afford a second lift.

so i need provisions for a toilet, sink in bathroom , and possibly stand up shower. As well as a Shop sink (somewhere to wash my hands to keep bathroom shop clean)
Now is the time to add all of that or i can just do a 30 x 40 pad and add the bathroom on later (i think this is what i will do). It will make it simpler for now 

i am now wondering if i should plan my entrances into the shop on the front instead of the sides? I think it would make it a lot simpler. And that way i can always add more shop space either direction.
thats a lot of things to consider while trying to keep it on the down-low from my wife so she isnt aware of home much i am spending lol

thoughts

[alenglish]

mines not a large as your talking   but   I did the end entry.   Its a 3 car garage, but I only use for 2 car spots.  with the extra space for work bench, tools  storage.   and a set of steps for the small 14 by 32 room.    Bottom is 24 by 32.    BigAlSr

[Bob]

I went with a 24 x 44, $9,5.00, pole building, 3 car with workshop.
6 inches of high pressure concrete, $1,900.00
Used 2 post lift, $600.00
Labor for concrete finishing, $300.00
This was in 2007. I'm very happy with it even though bigger is always better.

Bob

[70 sublime]

For the trouble of guessing where you need 6 inch thick floor for a lift or two
Would it not be almost easier to just go 6 thick everywhere ?

[Harper]

For the trouble of guessing where you need 6 inch thick floor for a lift or two
Would it not be almost easier to just go 6 thick everywhere ?

maybe, but the expense of the concrete will be more plus it may have to be dug out more in areas.
I will ask the concrete guy when he gets here Monday.

if its not that much more I may go that route. I pretty much have just enough for the 30 x 40 at this point and time, if it goes much over what i am planning for i may have to go with original plan.
I have have several ppl who owe me money if they would all pay i could do a freakin 60 x 80 lol If i wait on them to pay me tho i may pass on before that actually happens lol

[JB400]

Personally, I wouldn't go through the expense of pouring the whole thing 6 inches thick.  I'd just have the area where the lift would go be 6, the rest 4.  I'd also put bar on 2 ft. centers in the same area, 4 ft. in the rest of the floor, and I'd have the whole floor vibrated, not just screeded off like most do.

[Harper]

Personally, I wouldn't go through the expense of pouring the whole thing 6 inches thick.  I'd just have the area where the lift would go be 6, the rest 4.  I'd also put bar on 2 ft. centers in the same area, 4 ft. in the rest of the floor, and I'd have the whole floor vibrated, not just screeded off like most do.

yea they run a smoother over called a "whirley bird" to slick it up, i know he is doing that. So yea i will get the measurements for the pads for the lifts and pour that 6 inchs the rest 4 or so.

[JB400]

Your whirly bird is not a vibrator, it's a polisher, to finish the concrete.  A vibrator is a tool that sticks into the concrete to work out the air bubbles, or we use a power screed.  A power screed is a tool that spans the entire width of the floor, and it vibrates as well as levels out the concrete, which makes your concrete stronger.

[Harper]

thats nice but
us rednecks do that the hard way...manually with a 2 x 6

[Old Moparz]

Not sure what to suggest for a layout but try to be cautions of future plans & how the current layout ends up. What I mean is, if you are going to add on in a particular location in the future don't put permanent features somewhere that will screw up that plan later. For example, if you add on to the rear of the building & need to access it from the original building, the lift, office, underslab utilities that come up through the floor may all be in the way & costly to relocate.

When I planned & built mine 20 years ago I had less space to work with than you do & tried to maximize the floorspace so I put a second floor on mine for storage so the first floor was strictly going to be for the vehicles, work bench, tools, etc. Access to the storage is by ladder but I hope to put an exterior stair case in at some point to free up floor space & have a real stair case for an easier climb. If you go with a high ceiling you can add a storage loft somewhere later. In a 30'x 40' building you'll be able to fit in a large loft.

Some things to consider no matter what the layout is are.....

- Stub in & cap several extra electrical conduits with curved "sweeps" if you have or plan to have underground service. It's much cheaper & easier to pull additional wires through an empty conduit that already sticks up through the concrete floor. You can also pull telephone, alarm & other low voltage wiring through. Same goes for water, sewer, gas or propane that you can add later as your budget allows. Pushing a flexible copper water line through a conduit is easier than cutting through the concrete floor.

- Overhead doors only come with a track system that's slightly higher than the actual door height. For example, an 8' high door may only be 9' off the floor when in the open position. This does you no good if you have a 12' ceiling & a lift. You can get what's called a "High Lift" track set up & it will not cost that much more than a standard track, whether it's for a 7' ht. door, or an 8' door ht. door. It's basically just longer sections of tracks, & longer cables. The springs & the rest of the hardware should be the same. This option for my doors was an additional $57.00 each. It brought the doors up a lot higher, but I forget the exact height, & may vary depending on what is available. They are not flush with the ceiling, but definitely worth the difference.

[Bob]

Hind sight being 20/20 I'd wished I would have installed a floor drain in one of the end bays for washing vehicles.

[Harper]

thanks guys for all of the suggestions, comments each of you have helped make my process of designing this shop easier.  I am planning on putting a two post lift in one bay and adding enough concrete in another for a second two post lift for down the road. I may not ever see it in my life time, but i am planning for it

i will add to the back of the shop for a bathroom with a stand up shower, toilet and sink later on down the road.

Bob,
yea that is in the plans for outside, we seldom see really cold temps around here and in the summer or sometimes in the winter it may be in the 70's, 80's and sometimes above that.

I was just telling my wife that i plan to put a drain on the outside slab (to be added later for a area to wash/rinse vehicles).

[Harper]

wow, so now i am totally let down. I was estimating this concrete would be somewhere around $3000 ($1800 for actual concrete, and i figured $1200 to form it and smooth it) and the estimate came back $7400 for everything. REALLY? what the hell...
so evidently my shop is delayed! I am not spending nearly $7500 for a 30 x 40 pad. I mean damn...

One step forward and two steps back...

[JB400]

30x40 pad/ 4 inches thick/15 yrds./ $130 per yard=  $1950

1/2 bar 4 ft. centers / 31 sticks / $6 a stick= $96

12 inch footing/ 9 yrds. /$130 per yard. =$1200

Material prices are local for me, and this doesn't account for plumbing or fill.  But, I can attest that labor prices are what is going to kill you on this project.  I'd recommend doing as much of the grade work yourself, and then sub out the pour itself.

If I was closer, I'd help you out.

[Harper]

30x40 pad/ 4 inches thick/15 yrds./ $130 per yard=  $1950

1/2 bar 4 ft. centers / 31 sticks / $6 a stick= $96

12 inch footing/ 9 yrds. /$130 per yard. =$1200

Material prices are local for me, and this doesn't account for plumbing or fill.  But, I can attest that labor prices are what is going to kill you on this project.  I'd recommend doing as much of the grade work yourself, and then sub out the pour itself.

If I was closer, I'd help you out.

i appreciate that! wished you were...

yea i will regroup, no biggie. It will happen if i have to do it in sections (i mean you need expansion points anyway right). I have already rounded up some good ppl to help. I will pay for the concrete and when i get it all formed up, and some good help, tackle it. I have poured and I can SCREET it but i need help with the "whirly bird" part. Just gotta study up on it

[JB400]

It's just like polishing a floor with a power buffer.  Same principle.  Just need a spray bottle with some water to fill in spots.

[Harper]

It's just like polishing a floor with a power buffer.  Same principle.  Just need a spray bottle with some water to fill in spots.

thanks

[INTMD8]

A lot of good advice here.

I went with LED's, ZL1N lithonia with 4k color temperature. Love them.

Many say to go with in floor heat but since my building/slab was already there when I bought the place I ended up going with an exterior package unit, gas heat and A/C.

Along with spray foam insulation, could not be happier, it's awesome.

For the interior I did metal liner panels from Menards and surface mounted all electrical and air lines.

Agreed on doing the entire slab 6".  Check of course but I don't think it would be much easier/cheaper to try and excavate certain areas.

Have the slab cut with smaller squares (maybe 10x10?) to avoid cracks.

One thing about mine I did not like was there was fiber mixed in to the slab. Tried to burn it all off after grinding with a weed burner but didn't get it all so ended up with some nubs in the epoxy floor.

Without the fiber mix I would have preferred to just do polished concrete over epoxy.

[Harper]

Have the slab cut with smaller squares (maybe 10x10?) to avoid cracks.

One thing about mine I did not like was there was fiber mixed in to the slab. Tried to burn it all off after grinding with a weed burner but didn't get it all so ended up with some nubs in the epoxy floor.

Without the fiber mix I would have preferred to just do polished concrete over epoxy.

that's some good advice there also. Yea the fiber is strong and is suppose to prevent cracking, but the fuzz on top when you get ready to epoxy is a good reason for me NOT to do the fiber. Plus the standard 3000psi concrete is good enough for me and some cheaper.