water pump housing

[chargedup68]

I have a 505 stroker motor that dyno'd at 608 HP and I am looking for water pump housing recommendations.  Based off what I have seen 440 source is out of the question.  Anybody have any exp with Proform or PRW?

[Kern Dog]

What side do you want the inlet nipple? Why not use a factory one?

[chargedup68]

I don't have a factory one as this was a 318 car originally.  I don't have a radiator for it yet so no preference for the inlet, but interested in recommendations.

[garner7555]

The Mancini housing has good feedback.   I have it on my 440, and it has no problems.   I just fired it up the first time last week though.

http://www.manciniracing.com/wapuho.html

[chargedup68]

Thanks, the Mancini look good so I think I will go with it as well and get the Miloden HV pump too.

[cdr]

The 440 source one has been fixed MANY years ago.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I would run whichever aluminum one is on sale at the best price when you are ready to order it. They are all cast off of the stock ones essentially. 440 source just had a major casting flaw origonally.

[69wannabe]

I just put the mancini racing housing, water pump and billet water neck kit on my 493 back in June and I am very happy with it. It is the first time in years that the water neck actually doesn't leak since the old one always seeped coolant. Mancini kit comes highly recommended.......

[chargedup68]

Thanks for all the advice!  I ordered the mancini housing and a billet neck this afternoon.

[q8charger]

Thanks for all the advice!  I ordered the mancini housing and a billet neck this afternoon.

The output Is it Driver side?

[BLK 68 R/T]

Thanks for all the advice!  I ordered the mancini housing and a billet neck this afternoon.

The output Is it Driver side?

The output is in the top middle 

Inlet is drivers side.

[BSB67]

I would run whichever aluminum one is on sale at the best price when you are ready to order it. They are all cast off of the stock ones essentially. 440 source just had a major casting flaw origonally.

I have the original 440 Source unit with the flaw.  Works fine.  The real problem that was actually found to be the root cause was the pump impeller was pushed too far onto the shaft, not the housing.  The beauty of the internet. Miss information comes out, and there is no reeling it back in.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I would run whichever aluminum one is on sale at the best price when you are ready to order it. They are all cast off of the stock ones essentially. 440 source just had a major casting flaw origonally.

I have the original 440 Source unit with the flaw.  Works fine.  The real problem that was actually found to be the root cause was the pump impeller was pushed too far onto the shaft, not the housing.  The beauty of the internet. Miss information comes out, and there is no reeling it back in.

You learn something new every day. I thought there were photos of the cooling port castings being half the size or something? Isnt the 1st time ive been wrong. Wont be the last.

[BSB67]

The passage is undersiized from the original no doubt.  And logic would suggest that it could be, or would be a problem.  And maybe it is under more extreme temperature conditions.  I've never seen a true controlled back to back test.  

Here is how the original story went down.  440 Sources was selling a bunch of the housings and pumps for years .  They sold a billion of them as at that time they were the only low cost supplier of stuff.  One day someone's car over heats.  He investigates and identifies the restricted housing.  Internet lights up.  A lot of 440 Source haters at the time.  You know, Chinese junk.  Cat is out of the bag and everyone "knows" that the housing is the problem.  A few weeks go by, the original poster resurrects the post and says: changed housings and still overheats, new pump, problem gone......oooops.  Pump impeller too far from mating housing surface.  Still a 440 Source pump problem, but not the housing.  Probably thousands of those housings in use with no problem.

Since then, others have come out and claimed the housing caused their overheating problem, but every post that I have read the author always changed both the housing and pump.  

It should still be in the Moparts archives.

[XH29N0G]

The passage is undersiized from the original no doubt.  And logic would suggest that it could be, or would be a problem.  And maybe it is under more extreme temperature conditions.  I've never seen a true controlled back to back test.  

Here is how the original story went down.  440 Sources was selling a bunch of the housings and pumps for years .  They sold a billion of them as at that time they were the only low cost supplier of stuff.  One day someone's car over years.  He investigates and identifies the restricted housing.  Internet lights up.  A lot of 440 Source haters at the time.  You know, Chinese junk.  Cat is out of the bag and everyone "knows" that the housing is the problem.  A few weeks go by, the original poster resurrects the post and says: changed housings and still overheats, new pump, problem gone......oooops.  Pump impeller too far from mating housing surface.  Still a 440 Source pump problem, but not the housing.  Probably thousands of those housings in use with no problem.

Since then, others have come out and claimed the housing caused their overheating problem, but every post that I have read the author always changed both the housing and pump.  

It should still be in the Moparts archives.

Thanks for the clarification.  Is the post this one: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.msg679792.html#msg679792?

I was not aware of this and went back to of the threads on this topic and will continue to read.  

[c00nhunterjoe]

You never cease to amaze me russ, thanks for the backstory. Never heard that. 

[BSB67]

 Is the post this one: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.msg679792.html#msg679792?
 

No

[BSB67]

You never cease to amaze me russ, thanks for the backstory. Never heard that.  

I have thought about stepping into the middle of this but there is no up side.  And anyways, given a choice, I wouldn't knowingly buy one with the restricted passage. But surely 440 Source has fixed the restriction.  I would call and find out before I would choose to not buy theirs.

[c00nhunterjoe]

You never cease to amaze me russ, thanks for the backstory. Never heard that.  

I have thought about stepping into the middle of this but there is no up side.  And anyways, given a choice, I wouldn't knowingly buy one with the restricted passage. But surely 440 Source has fixed the restriction.  I would call and find out before I would choose to not buy theirs.

If it is on your 500" motor with heavy iron manifolds, and not running hot, that is good enough for me.

[firefighter3931]

You never cease to amaze me russ, thanks for the backstory. Never heard that.  

I have thought about stepping into the middle of this but there is no up side.  And anyways, given a choice, I wouldn't knowingly buy one with the restricted passage. But surely 440 Source has fixed the restriction.  I would call and find out before I would choose to not buy theirs.

I started that post many years ago....it's still stickied at the top of this page. I was having overheating issues with the "Source" housing and pump. Circulation was piss poor at idle across the top of the radiator so that was the first clue. Dwayne had mentioned during a conversation that he had found the restriction while inspecting one of those housings. I replaced the complete assembly with a factory WP housing and Milodon water pump. Circulation increased dramaticly and overheating problem immediately resolved. This is all well documented in the original thread.

Subsequently, the OEM housing/Milodon pump were re[placed with the Mancini housing & Pump. These parts were later transplanted onto my current 572 stroker and have worked perfectly. Circulation @ idle is as good as the oem housing/milodon waterpump. The pump that comes with the Mancini kit is a dead ringer for the Milodon pump....same blade count and anti-cavitation plate.  The big stroker idles all day long at 175* even in traffic in the summer heat. 

There have been subsequent posts where guys have kept the suspect housing and replaced the WP with a milodon and still had overheating issues.  That particular run of WP housings were defective.... period !  Would you run a 4bbl carb with the secondary veturies blocked off ? Would you run a oil pickup with half the screen covered up ? I don't think so.....so why use a WP housing that is capable of circulating 50% of the volume it was designed for.

Anybody want a defective WP housing....just let me know and i'll make you a killer deal on it. 


Ron

[BSB67]

You never cease to amaze me russ, thanks for the backstory. Never heard that.  

I have thought about stepping into the middle of this but there is no up side.  And anyways, given a choice, I wouldn't knowingly buy one with the restricted passage. But surely 440 Source has fixed the restriction.  I would call and find out before I would choose to not buy theirs.

There have been subsequent posts where guys have kept the suspect housing and replaced the WP with a milodon and still had overheating issues. 

Anybody want a defective WP housing....just let me know and i'll make you a killer deal on it. 


Ron

Ron, can you point me to the subsequent posts?

I 'll pay for shipping. I'll test it on my next motor and report back.

[firefighter3931]

You never cease to amaze me russ, thanks for the backstory. Never heard that.  

I have thought about stepping into the middle of this but there is no up side.  And anyways, given a choice, I wouldn't knowingly buy one with the restricted passage. But surely 440 Source has fixed the restriction.  I would call and find out before I would choose to not buy theirs.

There have been subsequent posts where guys have kept the suspect housing and replaced the WP with a milodon and still had overheating issues. 

Anybody want a defective WP housing....just let me know and i'll make you a killer deal on it. 


Ron

Ron, can you point me to the subsequent posts?

I 'll pay for shipping. I'll test it on my next motor and report back.

From the overheating thread....post by Dduke69 on the top of the last page. I did say Milidon waterpump but it's actually an MP aluminum waterpump (it's been months since I browsed that thread) so my memory failed me. 

"Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I am running a 500 c.i.d. stroker with lots of 440 Source parts including the water pump housing, water pump, and their thermostat housing. The engine is running 11.2:1 compression with .571 lift roller cam. Engineered air 22" 2 row x 1 inch core aluminum rad. I started with a 180* high flow thermostat and a 7 blade fan with a clutch on it. During initial break in and for a while after that the engine would run all day long in the garage at 180*. Then my first real road trip the engine would go up to about 220-230* and as soon as I got it in the garage and shut it off it would boil over. So the first thing I did is instal a 6 blade flex a lite fan thinking air flow was the problem. No dice, exact same overheating. Next I ripped out the fan and installed two 12" electric fans and it got a little better. It would still run very hot but not boil over when shut off. Then I read the water pump test section (pages 8 and 9) of this thread and decided to replace the water pump with a MP aluminum pump. This helped a little but it still ran up to 210-215*. So I ordered a new housing from Summit Racing. Even though my 440 Source housing was purchased in 2015 there are two port holes that are slightly restrictive. Even compared to the stock housing I have there was a noticeable difference in the passenger side lower channel. At the same time I picked up a new chrome thermostat housing. The thermo housing leaked like a sieve. I pulled it off and put it on a piece of glass to find it had a slight wobble low in the centre high at the bolt holes. Took a medium file and filed down the area around both bold holes until it sat flat in the glass. Gave it a good sanding and re installed it. Sealed up good. This thermo housing is better due to more space above the thermostat and the ID of the outlet is 1/16 larger than the 440 Source housing. Same size as the stock 440 housing. Now the car Idles in the garage at about 170*, took it out today and ran it for about 1 1/2 hours and it ran 180-195* the whole time. I can live with those temps. I have been told once the engine is more broken in it won't run as hot. Just happy I can actually drive the car now and find out. The bottom line is Both the 440 Source water pump and the housing are no good. Their housing is spaced to work well with their pump so when I put a new pump on there was too much space between the pump impellers and the housing. The Proflow housing I bought from Summit Racing is about 1/8 of an inch more shallow from the water pump mounting surface to the back. Plus the four holes/channels are even slightly larger than the stock housing which is better than the 440 source housing as well. So my problem seems to have been a combination of the pump, and the housing and possibly even the thermo housing as well. Now I will hunt for a water pump with the 4 3/8 inch wide impeller spread like the stock one that came out of my 440 originally. Even the MP high flow pump has a impeller spread of 3 15/16 and the impeller blades themselves are noticeably smaller on the MP pump. If anybody knows where to get one like this please post! Hope this helps some people!"



I've spoken to a few others over the years that tried different waterpumps with that housing with poor results. The Mancini setup is fantastic and they often go on sale for ~ $100 for the housing and waterpump. 


Russ, If you really want that WP housing I'd be glad to send it your way. I could never bring myself to selling it to a member knowing what I know. 



Ron