How many of you are running Solid Roller cams in your 440 vs Hydraulic Rollers?

[Harper]

I am currently researching for a 440 build for my 69 charger street driver. I want it to go therefore the 440 BB, however i do NOT want to be working on it all the time...
how often are you guys adjusting valve lash on your solid roller cam 440's? (note not my engine)

[70 sublime]

Looks like your car is starting out as a slant 6
Hope you realize how much of the suspension and the brakes you are also going to have to upgrade for the 440 addition

[BSB67]

Can you share with us exactly where you are currently on your project, what your overall plan is and timing?

[c00nhunterjoe]

As russ said, need more info on your specific plans. I run a big solid roller in mine. The short answer is- if you have to constantly adjust, something is wrong. Have 4 solid cam cars, 1 is a flat tappet and has been together since 1972, the other 3 are roller and get annual checks with no adjustments needed. But there is ALOT more to the choices before making a decision. My charger has more money invested in the valvetrain then many guys want to spend on their motors.

[Harper]

70 sublime,
you are correct. My current power train is slant 6, 3 speed in the floor with sparkomatic shifter and evidently the smallest rear ever put in a 69 charger the 7 1/4" dana look alike.

yes i do realize the parts needed to change it all over. I currently have a front K member from a 69 road runner (that i believe is the same as the bb charger) so thats where i will start.

current status is waiting for my windshield to be received at the body shop so I can get it installed.
slant 6 is up and running and its drive able but needs way to much to list. (one step at a time brother one step at a time).

[Harper]

current situation...

Leaning tower of power Slant 6 (original)
 Plans include 440 stock to begin with street driver
3 speed manual (converted by previous owner to floor shift)
  727 automatic stock rebuild (only because i can not afford the Passon A855 5 speed for it currently)

dana look alike 7 1/4" (dang that thing is toothpick looking)
  looking for a more robust rear end (possibly 8 3/4 or maybe a 9")

[69wannabe]

As russ said, need more info on your specific plans. I run a big solid roller in mine. The short answer is- if you have to constantly adjust, something is wrong. Have 4 solid cam cars, 1 is a flat tappet and has been together since 1972, the other 3 are roller and get annual checks with no adjustments needed. But there is ALOT more to the choices before making a decision. My charger has more money invested in the valvetrain then many guys want to spend on their motors.

Agreed!! Although i'm not a fan of giant lift cam's Joe is right on when it come's to an adequate valve train for an engine. The higher lift you have the more stable your valve train needs to be which means higher cost's. If you have to keep adjusting your valvetrain with a solid or hydraulic lifter then there is another problem. For everyday driving I like the hydraulic cams but if you want performance and I mean real performance it will be better with a solid.

My charger never see's the dragstrip, it's a street car in the biggest sense. I really have no need for a solid cam or anything that would turn more than 5800rpm's but it depends on you need's and want's.

[green69rt]

This is a thread from a while back that has a pretty good discussion of roller cams/lifters.  Probably worth reading.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,111208.0.html

[Harper]

  thanks Mitch, I will check it out

[c00nhunterjoe]

Building a stock 440 with a stock 727 tells me you should not be inquiring into any form of roller cam for that engine. There is no need.

[Harper]

  if you reread it says "to begin with".

plans down the stretch include aluminum heads, and a roller cam. I despise a flat tappet cam. I was told that the solid roller lifters would not hold up for street driving. If they would, that would be my choice. Thats one of the reasons i was inquiring.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Im going to beat a dead horse here with this but, what pistons are going into the stock 440? Because if it is what most machine shops will sell you, then you are putting 7 or 8:1 slugs in it and at that point, anything else you bolt on down the road will be useless. You should save the money up, build it once and build it right.
   As to the lifter question, it is a loaded question and loaded answer. It honestly depends. Depends on what profile cam you run, what quality of parts you have used, and how good your oil system is set up.  The same really goes for flat tappets.

[Harper]

what pistons are going into the stock 440? Because if it is what most machine shops will sell you, then you are putting 7 or 8:1 slugs in it and at that point, anything else you bolt on down the road will be useless. You should save the money up, build it once and build it right.

i understand what you are saying. I am definitely not building a 7 or 8:1 engine.

The engine will be at least a 9:1 or 10 at a minimum. There are so many variations of the way it could be built, that is also understood. I have been drag racing for 25 plus years so "stock" to me only means using stock block, maybe stock rods, crank and possibly heads. That does not mean it will be a run of the mill 300-320 hp 440 when I am done.
Yes building it once would be nice. And yes it would save money in the long run. Therefore the reason I am trying to do the research to have more knowledge of what i am putting together. I know way to many ppl just throw a cam at a motor that is way to big and never match up the carb size, the cam with the pistons/compression ratio, the intake and exhaust valve size, rocker ratio, correct push rods as well the intake type, header size, exhaust size, rear end gear ratio, but I can promise you this. I will.

i will probably start out building it a mild stock 440 on a budget  and it will wind up with aluminum heads,solid roller cam pushing over 600 hp...and have $12,000 in it,  but i hope not!!! lol i hope its something in between for my wallets sake
of course you never want Roscoe to catch you if your out and about and hauling shine lol

[c00nhunterjoe]

What will be done to these stock heads, since you have 25 gears drag racing? This will clearly make a big difference as well.

[Harper]

i am not sure yet it depends on what my money looks like. If i have the time and money i will have them angle milled (a little) the same on the intake, with a good valve job, possibly a 4 or 5 angle. Maybe new stainless valves. It will probably be nearly as cheap to just go aluminum. Plus I know the alum heads will be a lot lighter and on a big block that means alot.
aluminum intake, aluminum water pump so on and so forth.
just simply HOGGIN out a port does zero for velocity and flow... most times it creates less volume under the curve

like i said before, it will all depend on the money situation. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination. 3 kids in college will hurt even the strong pocket book  

[Harper]

cOOnhunterjoe,

What do you think is the hp limitation of stock 906 cylinder heads?

what flow does it take to achieve 600 hp from a 440 bb mopar?

[c00nhunterjoe]

You can dump 5k into a set of steel heads and still be outperformed by a set of new aluminum castings. I sgrongly consider that option. On your rebuild, you may as well figure on valve seats and guides needing replaced as well based on the age now, and that figure alone just set you over the cost of new alums and we havnt even started porting.

[c00nhunterjoe]

cOOnhunterjoe,

What do you think is the hp limitation of stock 906 cylinder heads?

what flow does it take to achieve 600 hp from a 440 bb mopar?

The limit is your wallet. I have personally seen 9 second, 3800 pound b bodies running 906 castings with STOCK valves.... but you could buy 3 sets of eddy rpm heads for 1 pair of those particular 906s.

[Harper]

but you could buy 3 sets of eddy rpm heads for 1 pair of those particular 906s.

yea the edelbrock Performer RPM'S seem like the way to go.

Who else makes a decent aluminum head?

i saw a lot of talk about INDYS? i bet those have a nice price tag huh?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Depends on the desired end result and budget. I have indy 440-1s in max wedge port on my 440 and love them. But my bottom end and  cam are not typical of most peoples end result. Albeit quite streetable in my opinion, its not what most look for. Indys are more high end and race oriented. Bu they do make standard port size and port exit heads that are good. But again, on a 9:1 bottom end and a mild cam, stick with 440 source or eddys.

[69wannabe]

440 source stealth heads are what I have on my street runner and after having them prepped by a member on here they perform great. I had a good set of iron heads with oversize valves and I was afraid that after all the cash spent that I wouldn't notice much difference after swapping to the stealth's but I will tell you I was wrong. The head swap was one of the best additions I have ever done for my engine and it really woke it up!!! Head's,cam and valve train are what make's an engine and that's where alot of your money will be spent on a 440. Of course you have to have healthy compression which means just buy the right pistons. I am running a comp flat tappet cam which runs great for what I do with the car. As long as you run the right oil and break the cam in properly usually there are not any issues with a flat tappet cam but so many different options these days you can do this or that or the other.

I just like comp's selection and they have good power with good driveability which is what I always try to stress when putting an engine together. Then there's what intake and carb to select and what headers to purchase, there's a recipe for every engine depending on how much you want to spend and how fast you want to go but your at the right place for advise......

[Harper]

69wannabe,
I see that i am in a great place for advice. And I do appreciate every response. Thats how I learn... I have been a FORD guy forever, however my first car was a dodge dart slant 6
I ventured in the ford world very young. I built a dozen mustangs including a big block 472 ci blue thunder head, reed roller cam, with roller rockers etc. and it was a beast at the time 5.92 1/8 mile back in 1998. (it was in a 79 mustang coupe with a fully roller C4 automatic with a nice ART CARR convertor).

This charger has always been a dream of mine. However i realize it has to be street able to be any fun. And I want it to last. I do pretty well with keeping motors together...I want this one to be no exception.

I want a driver in the end. but i dont want some little punk pulling up on me in a slowmarro and running his mouth. ya know.
I know i can always throw a 150 shot nitrous kit on there for the mouthy ppl lol but i would rather be accused of having nitrous and NOT its way more fun that way.

i saw the benefits of roller cams, and roller rockers with the 5.0 mustangs long ago, i also saw the benefit of a big block with my mustang. If i build this car right. It will do all i need it to do, run and sound good, have loads of torque and some good hp. I dont want to beat on it at a drag strip but i would like for it to be able to win a red light to red light with most any small block

[69wannabe]

69wannabe,
I see that i am in a great place for advice. And I do appreciate every response. Thats how I learn... I have been a FORD guy forever, however my first car was a dodge dart slant 6
I ventured in the ford world very young. I built a dozen mustangs including a big block 472 ci blue thunder head, reed roller cam, with roller rockers etc. and it was a beast at the time 5.92 1/8 mile back in 1998. (it was in a 79 mustang coupe with a fully roller C4 automatic with a nice ART CARR convertor).

This charger has always been a dream of mine. However i realize it has to be street able to be any fun. And I want it to last. I do pretty well with keeping motors together...I want this one to be no exception.

I want a driver in the end. but i dont want some little punk pulling up on me in a slowmarro and running his mouth. ya know.
I know i can always throw a 150 shot nitrous kit on there for the mouthy ppl lol but i would rather be accused of having nitrous and NOT its way more fun that way.

i saw the benefits of roller cams, and roller rockers with the 5.0 mustangs long ago, i also saw the benefit of a big block with my mustang. If i build this car right. It will do all i need it to do, run and sound good, have loads of torque and some good hp. I dont want to beat on it at a drag strip but i would like for it to be able to win a red light to red light with most any small block

Shouldn't be no problem for a good built 440 to do some damage but if you want the feel of spray with no spray you may want to consider a good stroker kit for that 440.

We had a 70 challenger about 6 or 8 years back we built a 493 with a set of out of the box stealth heads and a mopar purple shaft cam 509 I think and two eddy 600 carbs on it with a 3000 stall and 355 gears. At the time we didn't know the dangers of the stealth heads just bolting them on but they still ran pretty good. Had a local kid with a honda hatch with an add on turbo that had out ran several V8 cars in town and they called us out with the dodge. We met up and ran him from a roll and beat him in by a few car length's. We measured off somewhere between an 1/8 and 1/4 mile and afterwards we stopped to see what they had to say and they wanted to see under the hood. They were looking for a nitrous line and a tank but it was all engine and no power adder. Broke their heart and soon after that the boy traded the hatch off and I never saw it again, it was a good running little car tho... Anyway we showed our mopar pride and rode off into the sunset. I don't even know what happened to the challenger after that since my buddy kinda went rouge on me doing things that he shouldn't have been doing and that one disappeared as well. It was fun for a moment tho.....

[BSB67]

Based on what I've gathered from your statements so far is simply this:  a discussion about what type of roller cam is essentially the cart way before the horse.  If you are not planning on laying money down now for some good aftermarket cylinder heads, it is silly to discuss roller cams.

Your on a budget so this is your best approach if you cannot build the right motor from the start:  Build a good short block with good aftermarket rods and pistons.  put a piston in it today, for tomorrows cylinder heads (i.e. TF 240s).  That would be a zero deck piston with enough valve relief/dish to give you 10.5:1 CR with 75 cc chambers.  This is where you spend today's $.  Then slap the rest of it together on the cheap.  Good heads and cam later

You'll still waste a bunch doing the slow build.

You want to make the most power with the least $, do a stroker and do it only once right from the start.

[Harper]

Based on what I've gathered from your statements so far is simply this:  a discussion about what type of roller cam is essentially the cart way before the horse.  If you are not planning on laying money down now for some good aftermarket cylinder heads, it is silly to discuss roller cams.

Your on a budget so this is your best approach if you cannot build the right motor from the start:  Build a good short block with good aftermarket rods and pistons.  put a piston in it today, for tomorrows cylinder heads (i.e. TF 240s).  That would be a zero deck piston with enough valve relief/dish to give you 10.5:1 CR with 75 cc chambers.  This is where you spend today's $.  Then slap the rest of it together on the cheap.  Good heads and cam later

You'll still waste a bunch doing the slow build.

You want to make the most power with the least $, do a stroker and do it only once right from the start.

I hear ya loud and clear. Its gonna be tough holding back for only a trick short block, i may have to sell some toys and do this one up right. I swear if i had 12k i would hurt some feelings