Where to start troubleshooting - starter stopped working

[XH29N0G]

I am just looking for a sequence of tests to start with.

Starter does nothing when the key is turned. 

I checked the fusible link, it is continuous.
I tried jumping the two poles across the solenoid on the firewall with a screwdriver - no starter - no sound or anything.
I am now charging the battery.  It has 12.36 V, but looks 1/2 charged when on the battery charger.

My guess is that it is the starter or the battery because of the last test where I jumped the solenoid. 

Are there other possibilities?  Other tests I should do?

Thanks in advance  for any help. 

[JB400]

A 12v battery should have 14v.

[XH29N0G]

Thanks,  it is still charging and I was going to try to put it back and try again.  would only having 12 volts make the starter do nothing?  I guess I will find out.

[chapel40]

Put meter on battery then jump solenoid. 12-14v should remain. reach down and see if the wires are loose. one more check you can do is check for 12-14v on engine block when jumping solenoid. if not, change starter. Can you hear the starter do anything? can you hear the solenoid your jumping click if you try the key?

[XH29N0G]

An update.  I am leaning toward the battery being part of the problem, but have not been able to rule out other issues too.

I put the battery on the charger and after that could hear a very weak click when turning the key - weaker than the typical one that I have seen before with a weak battery. Then it stopped clicking again.  The battery then appeared to need more charging. 

I will try another battery tomorrow.  If that won't turn the starter, even by jumping it directly, I will see if I can diagnose the solenoid with a multimeter to rule that out. 

But it sounds like it should be something in those three things (Battery, starter, solenoid).

Thanks.  I'll keep you posted if I learn more, but that won't be tonight. 

[green69rt]

When I have starting problems with any of my cars, the battery is the FIRST thing I look at.  Usually just pull it and take it to Walmart  or an auto parts place for testing.  A weak battery or one that has a bad cell can do the weirdest things, it will have you scratching your head.  Next place I look is the battery terminals, then go from there.  95% of the time, I don't have to look any further.

[440]

Try a good known battery first. Hook up a remote starter second. Take starter out of car and test the motor and the solenoid on the bench with jumper cables.

If battery and starter tests good then time to chase wiring.

[XH29N0G]

Thanks for the thoughts so far.  Some additional updates.

(what is a remote starter?)  Is it simply something that sends 12V to the second post on the starter solenoid?   

• I no longer think the battery is the main candidate. I swapped in the battery from my wife's car and there was no difference in the behavior. I could still be wrong, but I am now shifting suspicion to the starter.
• The click sound returned and I was able to verify that it is from the starter itself.
• I have been referring to some parts incorrectly and swapping starter relay (firewall) for the solenoid (in the starter).  I am guessing the click sound relates to the solenoid or something with the starter.

Are there any further tests (multimeter or otherwise) you would do (of the relay? battery? starter?) before I order a replacement and go through the work of removing the one that is in there now and installing the next?

If I swap starters, I am inclined to swap to one of the mini starters.  I read in another thread positive comments about units from DB Electric (Snd0008), Denso (PN?) and MSD (PN?).  I am considering the DB electric because it looks economical and reports sound OK.  I have Hooker competition headers on a low deck and am hoping there are no surprises.  So any comments on this will also be appreciated.

Thanks again in advance.  

[440]

A faulty neutral safety switch could also cause a no start situation. Try starting in Neutral instead of Park and see what happens. Failing that bypass the NSS altogether to rule it out, just be careful because it will then crank in any gear.

A remote starter is basically a big switch that allows you to crank the starter in the car using the switch instead of the ignition (bypasses ignition circuit completely) Again, be careful because it will crank in any gear and if the ignition is left on it will start without you in the car. This can help you eliminate the starter itself with a quick test without having to remove it from the car.

[XH29N0G]

Thanks for the additional feedback and safety precautions.  I have a manual and it is out of gear so am OK that way.  I am aware of the clutch lockout and that is working (I see it with the multimeter) and I also I know how to bypass that and have done that.  With it bypassed (or clutch depressed) I get the click, so I think the relay is working but will continue to keep an open mind since I have fooled myself in the past. 

I have tried jumping the starter poles at various places (at the relay, connecting to the battery, and using a screwdriver at the starter) and in all cases get the same single click, but no movement on the starter.  So I am thinking something to do with the starter and likely the solenoid.  My plan right now (but that can change if there are other tests) is to pull the starter this weekend and probably order a replacement.  I have been looking at dimensions of the starter and the DB electric ministarter and am guessing the main difference is the length and possibly the shape of the snout that goes into the bellhousing.  I am using a scattershield, but I assume the space is similar inside.

[BLK 68 R/T]

Don't overlook the battery cables themselves. I have had a bad + cable cause what you are describing, the cable looked fine visually, but had internal corrosion which basically cut the power to the starter down to nothing. Solenoid would engage but starter would not turn over.

[birdsandbees]

Standard Chryco starters are prone to arcing / flat spotting the contact stud and/ or solenoid contact ring. So the starter solenoid is the clicking.. it moves forward and the stud is burnt enough it doesn't make contact for battery power to run the starter. As teens we'd give the stud a crank to get a new "hit" spot when out on a Friday night tour. Be sure you're not wearing rings, or disconnect the battery first.

Now that I'm older though.. I'd pull the starter off, disassemble, clean, repair/replace the stud and reassemble.

You could also by pass everything and just hook a booster pack or jumper cables directly to the big stud on the starter and then use a screw driver to quickly jump between it and the small solenoid feed and see if it runs the starter. Eliminates everything else pretty quickly or points that something upstream is the issue and not the starter.

[XH29N0G]

Thank you both.  I just checked the cable and it looks OK and is continuous with the ohm meter.  It is only a few years old.  Unless I missed something, I think jumping the 2 poles on the starter is what you have suggested and I have done this.  I also banged on it a few times. 

Right now I am in the process of pulling it.  I have the leads off and the lower bolt.  I need to get the upper bolt, but house cleaning is calling so that will be later.  I intend to take a closer look when off the car, so I will likely have questions related to inspecting the inside.

 

[Back N Black]

Make sure you have a good body to engine ground. I had the same no start issue and it was bad engine/body ground. Just take one of the booster cable and ground one end on the body and the other on the engine. 

[Bronzedodge]

Don't overlook the battery cables themselves. I have had a bad + cable cause what you are describing, the cable looked fine visually, but had internal corrosion which basically cut the power to the starter down to nothing. Solenoid would engage but starter would not turn over.

I bought a less-expensive reproduction negative battery cable at Carlisle this summer, made sure it had clean metal to contact to, etc.  It's giving me troubles.  Check all the connections.

[XH29N0G]

Thanks.  I will check this and the connection to the engine.  The starter is now out of the car so I will check with jumper cables (once I manage to find them) or be on my way out to buy another set.  I am going to need a new starter.  The snout of the starter was cracked.  I pulled it out the top after  pulling back the steering column and that worked pretty well.

[BLK 68 R/T]

Any progress on this? 

[XH29N0G]

Yes.   Thanks for asking.

 I bought DB electric starter and decided to try that.  I removed the part of the starter that extends the connection to the wiring for the current and the solenoid signal.

It is very small compared to the other and I was a little worried they sent the wrong one.  I guess mini means mini.  It turns starts the car and I am now on to other things.

[BLK 68 R/T]

Good deal. Glad to hear it is working fine.