Anyone ever put a modern 5.7 or 6.1 L Hemi in there charger?

[rydog1130]

I tried looking for a thread on this but couldn't find anything? Has anyone ever done it or have a link to a thread? I was thinking of going this route if the title issue gets resolved with the car I found. I like the idea of better mpg's with fuel injection and I know holly, and fitech all make kits but thought why not just dump a 5.7 from a newer charger. I'malso wondering if there are any major pitfalls or mods tht must be done as well. Any info would be great!

[Baldwinvette77]

lots of people have actually, its pretty common, alot of people use truck hemis which have different intakes, timing covers and accessory drives than car stuff.

[Kern Dog]

I don't think that anyone has ever done this.

[rydog1130]

lots of people have actually, its pretty common, alot of people use truck hemis which have different intakes, timing covers and accessory drives than car stuff.

gotchya.....thanks

[lukedukem]

this forum has a section dedicated to the swap for the B Body platform. very good info and plenty of guys who have done it and will help
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/forums/new-hemi-engine-swap.57/

Luke

[Ponch ®]

its been done, but as of now the benefit v. the costs still dont even out, IMHO.

[rydog1130]

this forum has a section dedicated to the swap for the B Body platform. very good info and plenty of guys who have done it and will help
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/forums/new-hemi-engine-swap.57/

Luke

Awesome thanks Luke

[Rolling_Thunder]

Autodynamics did a 6.1L swap years ago...    I did a 6.1L swap about 9 years ago as well...     Ive done a few for customers over the years...   the swap is super easy these days with all the aftermarket support.

[68X426]

why not just dump a 5.7 from a newer charger.

For the time and expense of a 5.7 "dump" why not move up to a Viper V10 and Tremec trans?

Readily available.  Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Dodge-Viper-engine-8-0L-V10-4500-miles-only-/182407135057?fits=Model%3AViper

[68X426]

Plenty of V10 swaps done are out there.  Example: https://drivemag.com/news/a-viper-swapped-v10-1968-dodge-charger-is-a-charger-done-right

[Lennard]

why not just dump a 5.7 from a newer charger.

For the time and expense of a 5.7 "dump" why not move up to a Viper V10 and Tremec trans?

Readily available.  Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Dodge-Viper-engine-8-0L-V10-4500-miles-only-/182407135057?fits=Model%3AViper

A V10 doesn't fit without modifying the engine bay and a 5.7 or 6.1 with forced induction will have more torque and hp than a V10.

[rydog1130]

I just heard dodge has dropped the price on there crate hellcat.....

[68X426]

Still, it is an option.  Especially since rydog is seeking the "wow" factor, and a V10 in any BBody is certainly a WOW.

[Kern Dog]

The Viper engine sucks. It sounds terrible, requires extensive modifications to fit and does not impress me like a 3G Hemi...

[alfaitalia]

I agree with that...but they needed an engine with no personality to put in the a bland GT car like the Viper! As guy can guess I was never a fan!

[darbgnik]

The Viper engine sucks. It sounds terrible, requires extensive modifications to fit and does not impress me like a 3G Hemi...

Idunno about that. Stock for stock, the Viper engine has gobs more horsepower and torque than any Gen 3 Hemi without a blower on it. Modified, it's not even a comparison. There are plenty of 1500WHP stock bottom end latest Gen Vipers running around, as the latest iteration has a forged rotating assembly.

It does suck if you want to cram it in a car like the Charger that wasn't designed for an extra couple cylinders up front. And they've never been considered the best sounding engine in the world, especially I'd assume, to every car you show the tail lights to lap after lap on a road course. That boring GT car is in the top 10 of the fastest production cars tested at any track it's been brought.

And this opinion of mine is actually based on personal experience, having owned 2 including the latest generation I still have. This is also compared with personal experience from Lamborghini's etc I have also personally owned and tracked extensively. I'll tell you honestly, the only thing that Lamborghini V10 I had, had over the Viper was the noise. In any other performance metric, it wasn't even close.

If someone with personal experience wants to debate it, I'm down, but opinions from magazine articles don't count.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Used 2008 Viper V10 = $10,300

New 6.4L Hemi = $8,429

New crate hemi comes with PCM, throttle pedal, etc etc...     

Used V10 would need FEAD, PCM, wiring, etc...

So...    almost $2000 more for 130hp may be worth it to some - but factor in the K member modifications, motor mounts, and other fitment issues to deal with and that can get quite pricy when you dont do the work yourself...     The Hemi is pretty much a bolt in deal you can get most service parts from your local dealer...   not sure if Viper parts are stocked.

So it is an apples to oranges comparison...   V10 to V8 - I would take ease of installation and fitment over the "exotic" feeling of the V10...   personal opinion --- and yes I have driven Vipers as well as hemi cars...    modifications, blown, turbo, NA...    so no magazine reviews influenced my opinion.

[darbgnik]

Used 2008 Viper V10 = $10,300

New 6.4L Hemi = $8,429

New crate hemi comes with PCM, throttle pedal, etc etc...     

Used V10 would need FEAD, PCM, wiring, etc...

So...    almost $2000 more for 130hp may be worth it to some - but factor in the K member modifications, motor mounts, and other fitment issues to deal with and that can get quite pricy when you dont do the work yourself...     The Hemi is pretty much a bolt in deal you can get most service parts from your local dealer...   not sure if Viper parts are stocked.

So it is an apples to oranges comparison...   V10 to V8 - I would take ease of installation and fitment over the "exotic" feeling of the V10...   personal opinion --- and yes I have driven Vipers as well as hemi cars...    modifications, blown, turbo, NA...    so no magazine reviews influenced my opinion.

I agree 100% that there is no logical reason to try to cram a V10 into our cars. That being said,  in a true sports car, where low cg and aversion to heats soak running lap after lap matter, NA displacement trumps forced induction at similar power levels.
My Viper is primarily my track car, and if given the option, no one would take a forced induction hemi V8 for that kind of work. Then again, it seems that these days, the common definition of a performance car is one that dusts off minivans from red lights. So I'm probably missing the point. Lol.

And this is from a guy with an SRT 6.4 in the driveway.

[alfaitalia]

The Viper engine sucks. It sounds terrible, requires extensive modifications to fit and does not impress me like a 3G Hemi...

Idunno about that. Stock for stock, the Viper engine has gobs more horsepower and torque than any Gen 3 Hemi without a blower on it. Modified, it's not even a comparison. There are plenty of 1500WHP stock bottom end latest Gen Vipers running around, as the latest iteration has a forged rotating assembly.

It does suck if you want to cram it in a car like the Charger that wasn't designed for an extra couple cylinders up front. And they've never been considered the best sounding engine in the world, especially I'd assume, to every car you show the tail lights to lap after lap on a road course. That boring GT car is in the top 10 of the fastest production cars tested at any track it's been brought.

And this opinion of mine is actually based on personal experience, having owned 2 including the latest generation I still have. This is also compared with personal experience from Lamborghini's etc I have also personally owned and tracked extensively. I'll tell you honestly, the only thing that Lamborghini V10 I had, had over the Viper was the noise. In any other performance metric, it wasn't even close.

If someone with personal experience wants to debate it, I'm down, but opinions from magazine articles don't count.

Maybe in the state's compared to some cars at some tracks.....but.....At the Nurblurring....which is a good representation of how a car handles and how quick it will be in the real world (on the road!) only the ACR Viper makes it into the top 100 fastest cars lap times for standard production cars. It's still a fun car I'm sure (I'll admit I've only ever driven one and that was one of the very first in the UK....found it heavy and clumsy in feel compared to the nimble feel of a true sports car) but it's dated looks (long bonnets...hello 1980s !) make it a non starter for me. Which is a pity because or fuel costs have slaughtered their prices now and you can get one here for the price of a used Golf! But each to there own...which is cool.

Although I agree with most saying not to put the motor in a Charger, one of my favourite Chargers is one I'm sure you guys will know. It's black with a red tail stripe viper motor full body subframe.....paint had won awards for being like black glass. Don't know if the owner is a member here but I'm sure he must be known to you guys...he  bought it built though. I have his car as my screen saver...acts as inspiration when the car is not going to plan.....even though I will never be able to equal his standards.

[darbgnik]

Maybe in the state's compared to some cars at some tracks.....but.....At the Nurblurring....which is a good representation of how a car handles and how quick it will be in the real world (on the road!) only the ACR Viper makes it into the top 100 fastest cars lap times for standard production cars. It's still a fun car I'm sure (I'll admit I've only ever driven one and that was one of the very first in the UK....found it heavy and clumsy in feel compared to the nimble feel of a true sports car) but it's dated looks (long bonnets...hello 1980s !) make it a non starter for me. Which is a pity because or fuel costs have slaughtered their prices now and you can get one here for the price of a used Golf! But each to there own...which is cool.

Although I agree with most saying not to put the motor in a Charger, one of my favourite Chargers is one I'm sure you guys will know. It's black with a red tail stripe viper motor full body subframe.....paint had won awards for being like black glass. Don't know if the owner is a member here but I'm sure he must be known to you guys...he  bought it built though. I have his car as my screen saver...acts as inspiration when the car is not going to plan.....even though I will never be able to equal his standards.

Hmmmm, where to start...... At your professed "only track that matters", the Viper ACR is in the top 10 production cars, not top 100...... (number 4 if you only count cars that most of the world can actually drive on the street)

The non ACR Viper was never campaigned at the Nurburgring, so it's time isn't in the top 1000....... And seeing as it's not the Nurburgring, this obviously doesn't matter, but the non ACR Viper is also in the top 10 at Laguna Seca, ahead of other boring GT cars like Audi R8 V10, McLaren MP4-12C and 570S, Nissan GTR, Mercedes AMG GT S, Lamborghini Aventador, Porsche GT2 RS, Ferrari 458 Italia, Acura NSX, Lexus LFA, and on and on. Any on that list make it to your definition of "true sports cars"? By the way, I've actually raced there multiple times, and it seemed real enough to me.

And as for your extensive experience with them, if you got to drive a Gen 1 or 2 Viper, then you aren't speaking for anything made in the last 15 years. Since 2003 they have been a legitimate track car, and since 2008 a dominant one. The first gens were cool cars, terrible handlers(sorry to anyone on here who owns one), but cool. If that's the case, maybe you should actually drive one, and not around the block, that was built in this decade, or century?

[alfaitalia]

Ok I'm not will to draw this out into a pointless argument but the list I looked at was of street legal production cars. I think the Viper mainly appeals to your side of the pond.....as has always been the case Americans have very differing tastes in cars (only ever seen a handful of Vipers in the UK)..which is a good thing.

[darbgnik]

Ok I'm not will to draw this out into a pointless argument but the list I looked at was of street legal production cars. I think the Viper mainly appeals to your side of the pond.....as has always been the case Americans have very differing tastes in cars (only ever seen a handful of Vipers in the UK)..which is a good thing.

Oh, it is obviously pointless.

[rydog1130]

I don't need a V10 .... was thinking the 5.7 or 6.4

[Harper]

 i thought about this a couple times, but


pretty much any stock 440 with a fresh rebuild ($2800), aluminum heads ($2500), Roller rockers ($400) ,hydraulic roller cam kit ($800), about $6500 still out perform a 5.7 hemi...just my  

plus the cool factor is nice when you open the hood

[rydog1130]

i thought about this a couple times, but


pretty much any stock 440 with a fresh rebuild ($2800), aluminum heads ($2500), Roller rockers ($400) ,hydraulic roller cam kit ($800), about $6500 still out perform a 5.7 hemi...just my  

plus the cool factor is nice when you open the hood

you make a good point, but what about fuel economy though? Itd be nice to take it on a trip and not fill up in every town

[Troy]

i thought about this a couple times, but


pretty much any stock 440 with a fresh rebuild ($2800), aluminum heads ($2500), Roller rockers ($400) ,hydraulic roller cam kit ($800), about $6500 still out perform a 5.7 hemi...just my 

plus the cool factor is nice when you open the hood

A "stock" 5.7 Hemi that you can get from the junkyard for $1,000? Yeah, I'd hope so! Throw another $5,500 at the new one and see how the comparison goes. For the record, I have a pile of 440s but I also have a 5.9 Magnum and a 5.7 Hemi that I pulled from a junkyard for less than I paid for my last 440 long block. If there was a cheap, simple wiring solution for the new Hemi you'd see a lot more in old cars (and by that I mean a wiring harness that doesn't cost more than the engine!). The Magnums are dead simple to retrofit and stroker kits are so cheap you think you're working on a Chevy. The low end grunt is pretty amazing - and you can do it while still keeping the EFI so the mileage is respectable.

Troy

[moparstuart]

 Larry Ropers Cuda is a 5.9 injected hes had it together for years  , great built

[chargerperson]

I don't need a V10 .... was thinking the 5.7 or 6.4

If you're thinking of the 5.7 you may as well go with the 6.4 for another 100ish HP.

I have a 6.4 in my 67 Charger.  Car had 78 400 when I bought it so was clearly non-original, non period correct.  Don't drive it that much, about 1,000-1,500 miles per year so fuel injection is nice for starting the car after it has been sitting for a few weeks at a time.

I don't have anywhere near the skills or time to pull it off the transformation so I had s restoration shop do the work while restoring the rest of the car.  Was an expensive endeavor but the car came out great and is fun to drive.  Went with 6 speed tremec, RMS suspension, Wilwood brakes (and vintage air).  Kept the car all original in appearance except for 17" tires to fit over the brakes.  Even used an original 4 speed shifter from a 66-67 for the 6 speed tremec

In hindsight, maybe should have gone with 5 speed transmission as we had to cut the tunnel a fair amount to fit the 6 speed.  Don't really use 6th gear unless I am on the highway cruising

With no emissions, headers and 3' exhaust stock 6.4 (2015) is enough horsepower for me.

[Ponch ®]

i thought about this a couple times, but


pretty much any stock 440 with a fresh rebuild ($2800), aluminum heads ($2500), Roller rockers ($400) ,hydraulic roller cam kit ($800), about $6500 still out perform a 5.7 hemi...just my 

plus the cool factor is nice when you open the hood

If there was a cheap, simple wiring solution for the new Hemi you'd see a lot more in old cars (and by that I mean a wiring harness that doesn't cost more than the engine!).

Troy

This.

By the time you get the MOPAR kit (which only works on 14-up hemis), the one by holley or edelbrock or whoever is making them, or pay plumfloored or some place like it to reprogram the computer, you're already $1500-2500 into the swap.

anyway, any of them 440's you got laying around in good running condition? 

[funknut]

I don't know what 5.7L hemi's are going for, but I'd guess around $1500.  I've seen wrecked 5.7 cars go for around $3k and you get everything you need to do the swap except motor mounts, headers and ECM.  The MS3 gold box kit gives you a high performance ECM capable of running boost, nitrous, 2-step, and hundreds of other features for $1300 including the engine harness.

http://www.efisource.com/shop/ms3-gen3-hemi-plug-play-gold-box/

With a $250 cam and springs you can get 450hp out of a '08 or later 5.7.

It may not have the cool factor of a big block, and may not be a 'budget' option, but it can put down some respectable (and reliable) power for less than you may think.

[70B5Cuda]

It's not hard to get a cheap modern engine if you don't mind putting in some work. I've bought and parted out over 50 hailed out, wrecked, rolled, stolen, flooded, and burned SRT8's.

As for engine management, the number of offerings and price points have come down too. It will never be as cheap as GM but when has Mopar ever been as cheap as GM.

[Troy]

i thought about this a couple times, but


pretty much any stock 440 with a fresh rebuild ($2800), aluminum heads ($2500), Roller rockers ($400) ,hydraulic roller cam kit ($800), about $6500 still out perform a 5.7 hemi...just my 

plus the cool factor is nice when you open the hood

If there was a cheap, simple wiring solution for the new Hemi you'd see a lot more in old cars (and by that I mean a wiring harness that doesn't cost more than the engine!).

Troy

This.

By the time you get the MOPAR kit (which only works on 14-up hemis), the one by holley or edelbrock or whoever is making them, or pay plumfloored or some place like it to reprogram the computer, you're already $1500-2500 into the swap.

anyway, any of them 440's you got laying around in good running condition? 

All but one and that's because it needed bored... and now I'm just finishing up a run test stand so I don't need a car to play with them.

Troy

[Troy]

I don't know what 5.7L hemi's are going for, but I'd guess around $1500.  I've seen wrecked 5.7 cars go for around $3k and you get everything you need to do the swap except motor mounts, headers and ECM.  The MS3 gold box kit gives you a high performance ECM capable of running boost, nitrous, 2-step, and hundreds of other features for $1300 including the engine harness.

http://www.efisource.com/shop/ms3-gen3-hemi-plug-play-gold-box/

With a $250 cam and springs you can get 450hp out of a '08 or later 5.7.

It may not have the cool factor of a big block, and may not be a 'budget' option, but it can put down some respectable (and reliable) power for less than you may think.

I got mine (2006) at a yard east of us with 33kmi and a 12 month warranty for about $1,000. What I failed to realize (my fault) is that the "engine" doesn't come with any accessories. They scrap all that stuff! I got most of the brackets off a member here. The only thing I remember worrying about with aftermarket ECUs is that my engine has MDS and, at the time, none would handle it so I'd need to lock it out some way. I'm not sure if that has changed or if MegaSquirt has a mod to do it yet.

Troy

[funknut]

$1000 sounds like a pretty great price. Great point about the front accessories, they can get quite expensive.  I don't know if Megasquirt can control MDS, but if you're not attached to it, deleting MDS is pretty easy, just remove the solenoids and replace with plugs like these:

http://www.highhorseperformance.com/MOPAR_6_1L_MDS_Block_Plug_p/mds-plug.htm

[mtz01]

doesn't mopar now sell the wiring harness for these motors

[lukedukem]

doesn't mopar now sell the wiring harness for these motors

Yes, but it only works on 2014 and up I believe.

Luke

[Rolling_Thunder]

and the harnesses are expensive as hell...    the best bet would be going with a MS3 and doing the legwork...      once someone does a base line tune for the 5.7, 6.1, 6.4 - they can simply share the file and boom - everyone can be up and running in a weekend.

I have a programmed factory ECU in my charger currently but have an MS3 on the shelf - whenever i get back to CA I plan on starting to do all the programming. honestly - the complicated part used to be the 36-3+3 wheel the Hemi uses...   now the MS3 already has that wheel pre-programmed as an option so it is literally setting up fuel / park maps...     I dont know if the MS3 can control MDS - but honestly I don't see the need for that system.

Only other thing is needing to swap to a cable operated throttle body - cheap adapter and even cheaper 90+mm LS1 throttle body works

[ACUDANUT]

When it really comes down to it, your buying a Fiat engine. 

[alfaitalia]

I might be proven wrong but I think they had been designed a long time before the FIAT take over. That's why I bought an earlier Jeep...so it would have Daimler/Chrysler (Mercedes) engine in it rather than a Fiat one!

[70B5Cuda]

When it really comes down to it, your buying a Fiat engine. 

Yes, Dodge is now owned by FIAT, but the HEMI engines are NOT FIAT engines by any stretch of the imagination. Some hemi engines are better then others but the hemp's are all good engines.

[ACUDANUT]

That is kinda like saying my Toyota was made in the USA, so I feel better.  Ok, so they don't have import fee's doing this, and yet...Still The Japanese still make money doing it this way.
I lived in Japan for over a year. They are more patriotic to their own brands, than we are of ours...Visit Japan and count how many American cars you count, and see it  yourself. 
Just a thought to ponder.  I love the Japanese people. PEACE.