Monster Transmission Issues

[Swampwing2]

I bought a heavy duty 727 from Monster Transmission for my Convertible Superbird last winter. The core I turned in was the first transmission I rebuilt and it lasted me 10 years with no problems until it lost 3rd gear.

I chose Monster, in part due to this post and also because they are located in a city I frequently pass through when working, so there would be no shipping concerns.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,123273.0.html


I have been told by 4 different people at Monster that they do NOT have a vehicle they can test 727s in and therefore they only "bench tested" it.  The original salesman told me (about 1 month after ordering) that he saw their Cummins powered pickup on the rack so they must be testing my transmission.  
One big mistake I made was that I did not have them rebuild my core, I figured it would not matter since they would check everything.

The transmission I received (first rebuild) had the following wrong with it, some items were found at pickup, others during and after installation.
Speedometer cable threads crushed and unusable, (corrected at pickup by swapping with my core).
Starter bolt holes stripped, (corrected during second rebuild).
Would not shift into third gear consistently and sometimes not until going over 40-50 mph, 1-2 shift would move up and down with linkage changes, but 2-3 was always random and never the same (corrected during second rebuild, though not sure how).
Minor external leak towards front of the pan area, but not big enough to really be too concerned about.
Converter fluid drain back was present, but only after the car set over night. While none of my prior cars ever had this issue, I am aware it was something that happened and was remedied by putting the car in neutral after starting it for a few seconds.

I pulled the first rebuild out primarily for the 2-3 shift issues and the fact that it just felt like it was slipping all the time when it did finally make it into third gear. Monster rebuilt it (second rebuild of same transmission), never told me they found any signs of abuse (car is never driven hard or abused) and pretty much blamed the linkage (stock and properly adjusted) for the shifting issues. I never got an answer about the converter drain back or if it was corrected.  

The second rebuild has a major converter drain back issue and leaks about 1 quart of fluid a week on the ground just parked in the garage. The car now needs to be shifted into neutral after it sits for about 15-20 minutes or it will not go into gear for some time. Overnight obviously requires the same maneuvers, but it takes longer for it to go into gear. Originally the sales staff wanted me to buy and install one of these check valves in the cooler line, which I refused for obvious reasons.

https://www.moparpartsoverstock.com/p/gb/HOSE--HOSE-AND- VALVE--VALVE-Oil-Cooler- Pressure--Transmission-Oil- Pressure--Vacuum/6893509/ 50010185AB.html?partner= googlebase_adwords&kwd=& origin=pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4 -fooa391gIVBpRpCh1xngM1EAQYAyA BEgKNFvD_BwE

https://www.summitracing.com/ parts/rnb-800-196/overview/


The latest contact (tech) said I will need to install part (not all) of this kit, but asked me to shut the car off in neutral and then see if the converter still leaks down. After 30 minutes, the fluid rose about 1" on the stick and it took about 10 seconds for the car to shift into gear normally. There was a 6"x1" puddle on a new piece of cardboard in that time.  I am pretty sure he said if it still leaked down, that this kit will not fix it.  I do not see exactly where the leak is coming from, but I know it is not coming from the cooler lines, fittings or the shift shaft seat. It is dripping from the edge of the pan on the driver side.  

http://www.transgo.com/products.php?prd=SK-TFSC&homeinclude=catalog&category_id=60&parent_id=29&product_id=74&countdisplay=1&start=0&addcountview=Yes

I am hoping John K or some of you with transmission experience can weigh in if the transgo kit is going to work, or is it just a band aid for some other issue like a misdrilled valve body, or worn out parts being reused. Why is the drainback so much worse on the second rebuild than the first?

The tech looked on other forums and sent me links to show me that this drain back is perfectly normal and other than the kit there is nothing they can do about it.  I am really concerned since it still leaked when shut down in neutral as he said a transgo tech instructed him to check.  I have owned several 727s over the years and never had one act like this.
If the leak and drain back can't be corrected easily and appropriately, I am not putting this unit back in the car.

[c00nhunterjoe]

The leak is probably coming from the shuft shaft seal or dipstick seal as the level rises during drainback. Your issue overnight is not uncommon, however, 45 seconds of idle in neutral after being parked for 15 minutes is not normal. Could be pump bushings, input shaft bushings and or seals, valve body, or combination of all 3.

[Swampwing2]

Thanks coonhunterjoe, It does not take 45 seconds to go into gear but in my view it should not be a noticeable problem since there are known fixes for the issue. The time it takes to shift into gear normally seems to reflect how long its parked. It will shift into gear sooner after 15 minutes than overnight.

Anyone know of any other tests, like the one of shutting it off in neutral, to further diagnose it?

[c00nhunterjoe]

"The car needs to be shifted into neutral after sitting for 15-20 minutes for some time or it will not move."

This is not normal and needs to be addressed by them before its out of warranty and you are stuck. There should be no delay at all after 15 minutes idle time.

[BSB67]

Sorry for the issues you are having.  If you are doing the tranny removals and re-installations, that is very very frustrating.

I have no helpful suggestions for you either.   I'm sure John will.

I have had three experiences with rebuilt transmissions.  One rebuild by the local transmission shop down the street with an aftermarket shift kit thrown in, and the other two by probably the top recognized Mopar tranny experts in the country.  All three were std automatic shift high performance applications.  The locally rebuilt tranny was great.  It lasted 13 years and hundreds of 1/4 mile passes.  It was working fine when I took it out and sent it to the best of the best.  It came back about the same, but with a drain back issue.  The third time, well, my story is similar to yours.

My conclusion:  The 727 is a really simple tranny that is reasonably robust.  An experienced rebuilder, good parts and a shift kit is all 99% of the guys need.  Find a local shop with an owner that has a few gray hairs and that is all you need.

[69Chrgr]

I agree, I rebuilt both my 727 and 998 myself, dragrace the heck out of them. The torqueflites are super easy.

[Swampwing2]

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping John K would have something to add to this as well. I am doing the removal and installation myself, but I am ASE certified and have all the tools to make the job fairly easy. It is more frustrating that I should not have to be redoing this, again.

I have not heard from Monster since I told them the unit still leaks down when left in gear. I have a 68 727 core that has been sitting around for a few years. I am debating on rebuilding that one  myself to replace the Monster unit but buying parts for the pre 71 transmissions seems challenging. bulkpart.com does not have complete kits that have everything included and there is no high performance kit either. Wondering if there are any reasons to stay away from the pre 71 transmissions.

[Scaregrabber]

71 has part throttle kickdown I believe. I would rebuild the 68 and be happy. Lots of rebuild kits for them are available.

Sheldon

[c00nhunterjoe]

Pre71 has a smaller bushing on one of the drums... cant remember now. But after 45+ years, you have no idea what guts are inside until you open them up.

[John_Kunkel]

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping John K would have something to add to this as well.

Not much I can add, "The car needs to be shifted into neutral after sitting for 15-20 minutes for some time or it will not move." says it all....the trans has major issues and needs to come out to be evaluated.