I need tips (or advice) about restoring my 400 engine

[ppaavvss]

Hi friends,

1. I am rebuilding my 400 engine (6.6), it is stock at this moment, here in my country we have very hard rules about emissions so I would like to know if you can help me  or guide me, about parts or technics that could help me to lower emissions.

2. I would like to know wich intake manifold should I use to achieve this, also if you could recommend me a good carburator for the objective.

3. Do you know if this could be achieved with a good balance between power and low emissions?

By the way, I am from Costa Rica, thanks a lot for your time and help!

[Nacho-RT74]

IMHO ( being not an expert )

Correctly adjusted thermoquad to the needs, Magnum Camshaft and KB240 pistons... won't be able to get more juice on low emission controls.

Maybe the "MrSixpack" camshaft ?

Maybe the new Demon carb which is a copy of the Thermoquad?

Stock intake or 2186 edelbrock... edelbrock DP4B intake ( just used ) or offenhauser 360... I think the RPM is the max you can get... allways dual plane.

[ppaavvss]

IMHO ( being not an expert )

Correctly adjusted thermoquad to the needs, Magnum Camshaft and KB240 pistons... won't be able to get more juice on low emission controls.

Maybe the "MrSixpack" camshaft ?

Maybe the new Demon carb which is a copy of the Thermoquad?

Stock intake or 2186 edelbrock... edelbrock DP4B intake ( just used ) or offenhauser 360... I think the RPM is the max you can get... allways dual plane.

Thanks a lot Nacho, I am going to do research about those parts, in the evening!

[BSB67]

here in my country we have very hard rules about emissions so I would like to know if you can help me  or guide me, about parts or technics that could help me to lower emissions.

We need to know what this means exactly

[flyinlow]

here in my country we have very hard rules about emissions so I would like to know if you can help me  or guide me, about parts or technics that could help me to lower emissions.

We need to know what this means exactly

What year car? Are you passing emission tests now?

What are the emission standards that have to meet?  New car standards  for a 6.6L in 1972-1976 or in service emission standard, or modern car standards. (probably no chance of meeting the latter )

If you have a good working Thermoquad or a Demon version of it would work well on a stock intake. A dual plane intake designed to work in the 2000-5500 rpm range with a 670-770 cfm carb range would give you the best chance

of meeting emission tests and good drivability.

[Kern Dog]

You could make an old engine meet new car emission standards, you'd need fuel injection, catalytic converters, maybe air injected manifolds.

[alfaitalia]

Where are you in the world? In the UK we have some of the strictest emissions laws......but none of them are retrograde....in other words old cars don't have to pass modern standards....just the ones that were current when the car was built. Even with the items KD mentions it would be just about impossible to get a 50 year old car through 2017 exhaust tests. There would be next to no classics on the road if that was the case.

[c00nhunterjoe]

You could make an old engine meet new car emission standards, you'd need fuel injection, catalytic converters, maybe air injected manifolds.

You can never make the old engine meet modern standards. Thats why the LA engine was discontinued in trucks, why ford dropped the legendary 7.3 powerstroke, why cummins lost the 5.9... etc. Even the modern car companies can not meet the standards, but their gross numbers are skewed by what percentage of their engines are hybrid or california compliant.

[Nacho-RT74]

Where are you in the world? In the UK we have some of the strictest emissions laws......but none of them are retrograde....in other words old cars don't have to pass modern standards....just the ones that were current when the car was built.

By the way, I am from Costa Rica, thanks a lot for your time and help!

[Nacho-RT74]

The KB240 pistons I advised are about the only piston off the shelf for 400 you can get to increase CR so then the power, from the stock 7.8 to 8.2:1 to around 9:1 static CR, or bit more getting the block decked correctly to blue print specs and using metallic headgaskets

As mentioned, hard an old car will pass today's emissions standards, BUT increasing the CR will get the old Muscle era magic out of the detuned 400, which the main deal with them is the lower compression rate than its predecessors. With what I mentioned won't get more power or better emissions than a stock 383 Magnum ( 68/71 ). The power from the 383 Magnums is quite nice, better than a stock 400 magnum, with the advantage of more displacement out from the 400. Get the nice CR from old Magnums will be right on or slightly above the 383 Magnum due the extra displacement. Shouldn't be REALLY bad talking about emissions getting correctly tuned the carb and ign time. TQ carbs gets lot of options to be tuned nicelly getting nice metering rods to hold the emissions on low RPM range ( if you find them ), and then feel the power widelly opening the throttles.

the specs on the "MrSixpack" camshaft is widelly unknown. Has being kept as a secret, however has being advertised like a Hot street cam what feels like a stock and can be a straight replacement for the Magnum camshaft. I GUESS by the way is advertised it could be right on the limit for emission controls numbers

Once again is just an opinion

[ppaavvss]

Hi friends, here in Costa Rica emission test is a bit less strict that LA, My car is a 1974 Dodge Charger with the 400 engine.

I really appreciate all your replies, and pardon me if I can not answer your cuestions really fast (because I am doing some field work here).

Because Costa Rica is a "Green" country, the goverment create some weird laws so, we need to pass emissions to register a vehicle.

The configuration to pass emissions can be temporal, so as soon as I pass, I could modify any configuration to normality.

This car will not be used every day, so I belive that is not that bad doing a temporary modification just to pass!

[ppaavvss]

here in my country we have very hard rules about emissions so I would like to know if you can help me  or guide me, about parts or technics that could help me to lower emissions.

We need to know what this means exactly

I am going to look for the exact numbers, but just to have an idea, it is a bit less strict that LA.

[ppaavvss]

here in my country we have very hard rules about emissions so I would like to know if you can help me  or guide me, about parts or technics that could help me to lower emissions.

We need to know what this means exactly

What year car? Are you passing emission tests now?

What are the emission standards that have to meet?  New car standards  for a 6.6L in 1972-1976 or in service emission standard, or modern car standards. (probably no chance of meeting the latter )

If you have a good working Thermoquad or a Demon version of it would work well on a stock intake. A dual plane intake designed to work in the 2000-5500 rpm range with a 670-770 cfm carb range would give you the best chance

of meeting emission tests and good drivability.

I can modify it just to pass emissions, and then turn back to normal, I am doing research about those Thermoquad or Demon carbs and the intake!! Thanks a lot!

[ppaavvss]

You could make an old engine meet new car emission standards, you'd need fuel injection, catalytic converters, maybe air injected manifolds.

I have been thinking in that, do you know a store or web page that you would recommend to start looking at?

[ppaavvss]

Where are you in the world? In the UK we have some of the strictest emissions laws......but none of them are retrograde....in other words old cars don't have to pass modern standards....just the ones that were current when the car was built. Even with the items KD mentions it would be just about impossible to get a 50 year old car through 2017 exhaust tests. There would be next to no classics on the road if that was the case.

I am located in Costa Rica, here we say that we are a "green" country, most of the laws are related to conservation and emissions (talking about cars).

The real test is to pass emissions, for example if you have a car registed before 1990, they use a different test of emissions. I imported this car in january 2017, it means that my test will be harder. I need to do any modification to register it.

Each year we have to pass the test, so I know that it will be a headache, but for me is a dream to have this car running and with the possibility to drive it some times.

[ppaavvss]

The KB240 pistons I advised are about the only piston off the shelf for 400 you can get to increase CR so then the power, from the stock 7.8 to 8.2:1 to around 9:1 static CR, or bit more getting the block decked correctly to blue print specs and using metallic headgaskets

As mentioned, hard an old car will pass today's emissions standards, BUT increasing the CR will get the old Muscle era magic out of the detuned 400, which the main deal with them is the lower compression rate than its predecessors. With what I mentioned won't get more power or better emissions than a stock 383 Magnum ( 68/71 ). The power from the 383 Magnums is quite nice, better than a stock 400 magnum, with the advantage of more displacement out from the 400. Get the nice CR from old Magnums will be right on or slightly above the 383 Magnum due the extra displacement. Shouldn't be REALLY bad talking about emissions getting correctly tuned the carb and ign time. TQ carbs gets lot of options to be tuned nicelly getting nice metering rods to hold the emissions on low RPM range ( if you find them ), and then feel the power widelly opening the throttles.

the specs on the "MrSixpack" camshaft is widelly unknown. Has being kept as a secret, however has being advertised like a Hot street cam what feels like a stock and can be a straight replacement for the Magnum camshaft. I GUESS by the way is advertised it could be right on the limit for emission controls numbers

Once again is just an opinion

All options are well received Nacho, you know very well this cars, so I am going to look and try every tip you could give me.

I really appreciate your help!

[Brass]

Already mentioned but you could try universal catalytic converters.  Make sure the car is fully warmed up before testing.

[Nacho-RT74]

Thermoquad is indeed the stock carburator on all 400 Magnums. Is your one 2bbls?

( if increase the compression rate will affect the emission controls, forget the pistons and will nee to stuck with stock ones. That's not something you can install and remove maybe like a chamshaft, intake or carb )

[ppaavvss]

Already mentioned but you could try universal catalytic converters.  Make sure the car is fully warmed up before testing.

That is a good consideration, at this momment it does not have any catalytic converters!

[ppaavvss]

Thermoquad is indeed the stock carburator on all 400 Magnums. Is your one 2bbls?

( if increase the compression rate will affect the emission controls, forget the pistons and will nee to stuck with stock ones. That's not something you can install and remove maybe like a chamshaft, intake or carb )

Got it! Also I am thinking about it, what do you think about convert from petrol to LP gas?

[c00nhunterjoe]

We still havnt established what you are being tested for and what the expected readings are?

[ppaavvss]

We still havnt established what you are being tested for and what the expected readings are?

For cars imported after 1999 these are the limits:

COR: 0,55%V
HCR: 130ppm
COA: 0.54%V
HCA : 103ppm
CO2R: 14,53% V
CO2A: 12.62% V

[alfaitalia]

I'm no expert but those readings, especially the HCA/HCR look just about impossible to achieve on a car as old as this. Are you sure they are the correct figures? 103 and 130? In the UK a brand new car only had to get below 200 on most models.

[ppaavvss]

In the attachmets you can see the actual state of the engine, I already bought some NEW parts from RockAuto.com.

[ppaavvss]

I'm no expert but those readings, especially the HCA/HCR look just about impossible to achieve on a car as old as this. Are you sure they are the correct figures? 103 and 130? In the UK a brand new car only had to get below 200 on most models.

Reading in forums for Costa Rica they give those numbers to me, but I am going to ask the company that area in charge to do the technical revision test on cars for our country.

But I believe that those are correct, or at least close to.

Looks like an impossible mission!!!

[alfaitalia]

Nothing is impossible.......just depends how much cash you have to throw at it !!......but yes....its old school tech trying to achieve new car values.

[ppaavvss]

Nothing is impossible.......just depends how much cash you have to throw at it !!......but yes....its old school tech trying to achieve new car values.

You were right the HCR is : 200ppm

[c00nhunterjoe]

I dont see how you will get a vintage big block chrysler to meet those numbers, even if it were rebuilt 100% stock origonal. Those are modern car criteria that have variable cam timing, egr, direct fuel injection and 3 way cats .

[ppaavvss]

I dont see how you will get a vintage big block chrysler to meet those numbers, even if it were rebuilt 100% stock origonal. Those are modern car criteria that have variable cam timing, egr, direct fuel injection and 3 way cats .

It is hard but last year an other person did it!, I know because he is in a facebook group and I saw his post showing that his car is now with RTV (RTV is the test).

[ACUDANUT]

Your government is worried about a 50 year old car killing them.
We have the some problem here in the USA Called the EPA.
Yet it is ok for 90 percent of the world to flush raw sewage into the Ocean.

[alfaitalia]

We have the same here ...also called EPA. I read that the worst 10 percent of cars (when it comes to emissions) cause 50% of the car derived pollution. Interesting and prob correct based on how clean the latest cars are. Mine will cause about 5% on its own!

[440]

Do you have local testing stations? If so can you go straight to the source and ask about what is required to pass?

[ppaavvss]

Your government is worried about a 50 year old car killing them.
We have the some problem here in the USA Called the EPA.
Yet it is ok for 90 percent of the world to flush raw sewage into the Ocean.

Yes man, that is a real problem.

On Weekend I was doing research about how to pass, and I found that here in Costa Rica there is an Antique car club, they told me that if my car will be stock and I join the club they can send a proficient to check my car and if it pass they could give me a letter that I can present on the Ministry of public works and transport, and then they could evalute my car in a different way that for the test.

but doing this (join the antique car club) has a restriction, I just can use my car once a week.

I am thinking about it, I would like to use it more that once a week, at least for the first year after restoration.

[ppaavvss]

We have the same here ...also called EPA. I read that the worst 10 percent of cars (when it comes to emissions) cause 50% of the car derived pollution. Interesting and prob correct based on how clean the latest cars are. Mine will cause about 5% on its own!

I believe that it is very important to reduce emissions, I was thinking about a mod to pass the test (even if I have "choke" the engine temporary) and build a special exhaust system with catalytic converters (this could be permanent), but I do not have the experience to reduce emissions, I know in modern cars the O2 sensors and Catalytic converters most of the time do their work, but with this Charger I believe that I have three options:

1. try to join the antique car club, and if I achieve that, restrict the use of my car just to one day per week.

2. buy a fuel injection system fot it (I do not know if it exist) with catalytic converters.

3. Modify the engine to use LP gas.

[ppaavvss]

Do you have local testing stations? If so can you go straight to the source and ask about what is required to pass?

Hi, I was able to contact them.

Now I have the complete manual to pass the test, I could share it with you, but it is in spanish!

reading the manual I found this:

1. there are two tests
    a. Engine at minimum:

         CO ≤0,5% in volume
         HC ≤125 p.p.m
         CO2 ≤10%

   b. Engine at 3000 RPM

        CO≤0,3% in volume
        HC≤100 p.p.m
        CO2 ≤ 12%

2. For cars using LP gas

CO % Volume (Ralentí): ≤ 0,5
CO % Volume (3000 rpm): ≤ 0,3

[alfaitalia]

No chance...even with injection. Even the combustion chamber shape and basic architecture of the motor wont help you as far emissions is concerned. Your only chance is to fit a modern engine....which would be a pity. If you know someone that achieved this with one of our engines then I think a lot of money must have changed hands!!! LOL!

[ppaavvss]

No chance...even with injection. Even the combustion chamber shape and basic architecture of the motor wont help you as far emissions is concerned. Your only chance is to fit a modern engine....which would be a pity. If you know someone that achieved this with one of our engines then I think a lot of money must have changed hands!!! LOL!

Hahaha I tried to contact the man that claimed to pass the test, but with no luck yet! I know he has a 73 Charger with a 440 engine!.

[flyinlow]

Back in the  mid 1970's I worked at a Chrysler dealership. We had Sun scopes with exhaust analyzers and I would use it on my 440 Charger.  Mild build 10.5 CR ,Crower street hydraulic lifter cam , Offenhauser 360 intake , Thermoquad and headers. I was thinking the carbon monoxide levels where around 2-3 % at idle and maybe 1% at 2500rpm (no load). Unburnt hydrocarbons where around 1000-1200 PPM at idle and would go down significantly at 2500rpm. Sorry I don't remember those numbers. We could not test for Oxides of Nitrogen or Carbon Dioxide. CO2 is a product of complete combustion along with water vapor. I am not sure if that can be reduced?

Proper ignition timing, a 195 degree thermostat, and speeding the idle speed up can help make the numbers lower.

Cams with larger overlap make the idle numbers harder to reduce.

I installed Fuel Injection on one of my current Chargers. It idles a little smoother and doesn't burn your eyes as much.

[ppaavvss]

Back in the  mid 1970's I worked at a Chrysler dealership. We had Sun scopes with exhaust analyzers and I would use it on my 440 Charger.  Mild build 10.5 CR ,Crower street hydraulic lifter cam , Offenhauser 360 intake , Thermoquad and headers. I was thinking the carbon monoxide levels where around 2-3 % at idle and maybe 1% at 2500rpm (no load). Unburnt hydrocarbons where around 1000-1200 PPM at idle and would go down significantly at 2500rpm. Sorry I don't remember those numbers. We could not test for Oxides of Nitrogen or Carbon Dioxide. CO2 is a product of complete combustion along with water vapor. I am not sure if that can be reduced?

Proper ignition timing, a 195 degree thermostat, and speeding the idle speed up can help make the numbers lower.

Cams with larger overlap make the idle numbers harder to reduce.

I installed Fuel Injection on one of my current Chargers. It idles a little smoother and doesn't burn your eyes as much.

Do you know a fuel Injection system that can be installed in a 400 engine? I have read that using it alongside with O2 sensors could lower emissions.!

Thanks a lot!

[c00nhunterjoe]

The most popular fuel injection is the throttle body style setups which is 1980s technology. It couldnt pass standards then and was replaced with multiport injection, which also failed to keep up and has now been replaced with direct injection. The fuel i jection alone is not enough to drop emmissions. The large bore of our engines is a problem, coupled with cubic inches. Then add the 60 year old cylinder head design and you can forget about it.

[ppaavvss]

The most popular fuel injection is the throttle body style setups which is 1980s technology. It couldnt pass standards then and was replaced with multiport injection, which also failed to keep up and has now been replaced with direct injection. The fuel i jection alone is not enough to drop emmissions. The large bore of our engines is a problem, coupled with cubic inches. Then add the 60 year old cylinder head design and you can forget about it.

Thanks a lot, that means that I do not need to buy one of those, So I need to try different options!

[alfaitalia]

As said above.....there are no options (that I can see) to make such old tech come up to new car emissions standards. Without spending a fortune on ECU controlled and (closed loop) catted multipoint injection (also controlling ignition) and serious lightening of the internal rotating mass, reshaping of combustion chambers (probably with four valve heads!!), a redesigned exhaust with better scavenging .....its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN......even then it might not! And by the time you have done all that you will have pretty much built a new modern engine......which you might as well buy and fit in the first place!!!

Cant help thinking that the emissions figures you have been given are wrong......there would be nothing older than about 1990 on your roads if it was the case. Over here anything older than 75 is subject to no exhaust gas testing at all......because they simply would not pass!

[ppaavvss]

As said above.....there are no options (that I can see) to make such old tech come up to new car emissions standards. Without spending a fortune on ECU controlled and (closed loop) catted multipoint injection (also controlling ignition) and serious lightening of the internal rotating mass, reshaping of combustion chambers (probably with four valve heads!!), a redesigned exhaust with better scavenging .....its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN......even then it might not! And by the time you have done all that you will have pretty much built a new modern engine......which you might as well buy and fit in the first place!!!

Cant help thinking that the emissions figures you have been given are wrong......there would be nothing older than about 1990 on your roads if it was the case. Over here anything older than 75 is subject to no exhaust gas testing at all......because they simply would not pass!

What you say is true, I believe that my only option is to join the antique car club to register my car.

[alfaitalia]

Sounds like a plan !

[ppaavvss]

Here are some pics of the carburetor I have, Do you think it's worth it to restore them or buy a new one, I'm thinking of one that improves the power.

What would be the best way to improve my 400 engine? (more HP and torque)

[randy73]

When was your car imported into CR, because the car is a lot older than 1999. As you stated the requirements are for cars imported AFTER 1999.

[ppaavvss]

When was your car imported into CR, because the car is a lot older than 1999. As you stated the requirements are for cars imported AFTER 1999.

Hi Randy, I imported my car this year on january!

[alfaitalia]

.......and its definitely imported after 99....rather than built after 99? 

[ppaavvss]

.......and its definitely imported after 99....rather than built after 99? 

Correct, that is the trap, and I believe that for next year we are not going to be able to import classic cars, they wanted to ban those cars since 2014.

I had a hard time importing mine because the law about importing classics was on debate!

This government pay attention to another topics and delay that to next year, just fun because next year will be the elections here, but the future about it is unclear, but it is by law that the test is for all cars by imported date, so I am against the ropes with emissions test.

[randy73]

Then my suggestion would be to get a modern engine and put it in place of the 400. There are plenty of kits out there to convert a 5.7 hemi or 6.4 if you want that extra little boost.

[ppaavvss]

Then my suggestion would be to get a modern engine and put it in place of the 400. There are plenty of kits out there to convert a 5.7 hemi or 6.4 if you want that extra little boost.

that's a good option, I'm going to study as many as I can.

I have been seening some engines in ebay just to have an idea about pricing and specs.

[69wannabe]

Looks like someone put a chevy carb on it, from the looks of it the carb is a mid to late 70's quadrajet carb. As much as I hate to admit it these are really good running carburetors when they are fixed right. If it has dried out and has the white chalky stuff inside of it then usually it's junk. I had a cutlass before I got into mopars and had an awesome q-jet on it. A spread bore carb like a thermoquad and the q-jet's usually don't do well with a healthy camshaft but from the sound of your issue the only option will be going to a newer modern engine set up but it will be expensive to go that route...

[Nacho-RT74]

I can't believe you won't be able to use/register the car... even in Europe where there are lot of controls you can run a classic car. Usually these cars gets softer regulations somehow... maybe registering the car with a classic car support and will be able to drive it some hundred of miles per year.

Go to a local classic car club and ask them. I don't think you are the first or only one dealing with this. I don't think all classic cars there fill the emission requirements or even change the motor for a modern one to meet the requirements This is not a Mopar deal, but any old car deal. You should be able to get some guidance from anybody on the classic cars world

The fact is with the stock motor THERE IS NO WAY to meet the requirements even changing the fuel system. Modern cars are computarized controling fuel and ignition supplies.

Abot the carb... Chrysler someday in the 80s changed to Cuadrajet since Carter stopped the production. Thermoquad ( carter ) is the one you should have. Since you won't be able to meet emission requirements in any way, I simply would go to the basic stock restoration, with some internal toys to get more juice from it ( KB240 pistons and magnum cam should be enough ) and in that way you could meet the "classic" status, and get fun with what you'll have... If you add external and visible toys such as headers or aftermarket performance parts mostly sure you'll loose the "classic" status to be able to drive the car... just my 2 cents.

[ppaavvss]

Looks like someone put a chevy carb on it, from the looks of it the carb is a mid to late 70's quadrajet carb. As much as I hate to admit it these are really good running carburetors when they are fixed right. If it has dried out and has the white chalky stuff inside of it then usually it's junk. I had a cutlass before I got into mopars and had an awesome q-jet on it. A spread bore carb like a thermoquad and the q-jet's usually don't do well with a healthy camshaft but from the sound of your issue the only option will be going to a newer modern engine set up but it will be expensive to go that route...

thanks a lot! I really appreciate your help, I am no experienced with carbs so I am doing research and learning about them!.

[ppaavvss]

I can't believe you won't be able to use/register the car... even in Europe where there are lot of controls you can run a classic car. Usually these cars gets softer regulations somehow... maybe registering the car with a classic car support and will be able to drive it some hundred of miles per year.

Go to a local classic car club and ask them. I don't think you are the first or only one dealing with this. I don't think all classic cars there fill the emission requirements or even change the motor for a modern one to meet the requirements This is not a Mopar deal, but any old car deal. You should be able to get some guidance from anybody on the classic cars world

The fact is with the stock motor THERE IS NO WAY to meet the requirements even changing the fuel system. Modern cars are computarized controling fuel and ignition supplies.

Abot the carb... Chrysler someday in the 80s changed to Cuadrajet since Carter stopped the production. Thermoquad ( carter ) is the one you should have. Since you won't be able to meet emission requirements in any way, I simply would go to the basic stock restoration, with some internal toys to get more juice from it ( KB240 pistons and magnum cam should be enough ) and in that way you could meet the "classic" status, and get fun with what you'll have... If you add external and visible toys such as headers or aftermarket performance parts mostly sure you'll loose the "classic" status to be able to drive the car... just my 2 cents.

Hi Nacho, I will go to the car club as you say! For me I believe that is the best option!

You are experienced in the 400 engine, so I have a couple of questions to you:

1. You have a 451 on your charger? If so, I would like to know if the gearbox is able to work properly with that HP and torque.

2. How mucho power does it gains? How is the drive experience with that engine?

3. I was thinking that for the reasons I said before, theres is no way to pass emissions test... so there is no problem about modifying my engine to improve it (that is why I asked you about the 451, I would like to do something like that.

On week end a will take pictures of my gear box, because I do not know if it is the stock one, and post the photos here!

Every picture you need just tell me!

Here are two pics of the engine

[Nacho-RT74]

I went with the basic build just using what I had in hands with the 400 parts ( rods ), posted here

http://www.houstonmopars.org/stroker.html

Got "by accident" a stock forged 440 crank, so decided to go with the "451" build. It is actually a 448 because is 0.020" overbore. A 451 is made with a 0.033" overbore. Just used pistons as an aftermarket piece, although went with a Crower cam after that.


Just in case and if your block is nice on standard bore just needing a hone job, I have for sale New in box Pistons

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,127205.0.html

I had these to build the stroker standard ( 444 ) but made a mistake cuting the cilinder steps ( which were barelly 0.002" ) with a tool and had to go 0.020". I should just hone them. The standard KB pistons are made a bit bigger than the stock factory bore considering the regular wear cylinders should be on a running engine, so they are made for bigger tolerances ( I have the specs KB crew told me about them, on an email )

I have also a MP 280/.474 camshaft kit on its box I can get rid off. I was to use it, but a friend of mine have one on his 400 and it seemed a bit "lumpy" for me since I wanted to use th AC. The Crower I have is a bit less lumpy due the wider centerline and smaller intake duration  at 0.050 althought pretty much similar to the MP I have. The MP camshaft I have got some rust cavities on front track because the box got wet for long time ( didn't noticed the wall was getting humidity ), but take it to a machine job to check it and they told me is still nice to run it.

[Nacho-RT74]

about power... It is NOTICEABLE the power increase from the stock 400, however I never have taken to a Dyno. I juts build to get fun with it whichever power it has. Someday will take it to a Dyno.

Rest of driveline holds nicelly the power behing that engine, Don't worry. There are bigger HP builds still on stock driveline and holds it nicelly. This basic stroker is allmost a street build, maybe like you were building an Hemi, and Hemis are a stock build on a stock driveline. Remember the 451 is not more than a 440 on a lighter 400 housing, and lighter rotation assembly too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrZo8-7uvDs

I never build the engine for 1/4 mile race even SOMEDAY will take to the track just to know what I have in hands, not for win anything.

take in mind if your block still holds standard bore, I have the pistons for it.

[ppaavvss]

I went with the basic build just using what I had in hands with the 400 parts ( rods ), posted here

http://www.houstonmopars.org/stroker.html

Got "by accident" a stock forged 440 crank, so decided to go with the "451" build. It is actually a 448 because is 0.020" overbore. A 451 is made with a 0.033" overbore. Just used pistons as an aftermarket piece, although went with a Crower cam after that.


Just in case and if your block is nice on standard bore just needing a hone job, I have for sale New in box Pistons

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,127205.0.html

I had these to build the stroker standard ( 444 ) but made a mistake cuting the cilinder steps ( which were barelly 0.002" ) with a tool and had to go 0.020". I should just hone them. The standard KB pistons are made a bit bigger than the stock factory bore considering the regular wear cylinders should be on a running engine, so they are made for bigger tolerances ( I have the specs KB crew told me about them, on an email )

I have also a MP 280/.474 camshaft kit on its box I can get rid off. I was to use it, but a friend of mine have one on his 400 and it seemed a bit "lumpy" for me since I wanted to use th AC. The Crower I have is a bit less lumpy due the wider centerline and smaller intake duration  at 0.050 althought pretty much similar to the MP I have. The MP camshaft I have got some rust cavities on front track because the box got wet for long time ( didn't noticed the wall was getting humidity ), but take it to a machine job to check it and they told me is still nice to run it.

Thanks a lot Nacho, I am checking the info you gave me !

[ppaavvss]

about power... It is NOTICEABLE the power increase from the stock 400, however I never have taken to a Dyno. I juts build to get fun with it whichever power it has. Someday will take it to a Dyno.

Rest of driveline holds nicelly the power behing that engine, Don't worry. There are bigger HP builds still on stock driveline and holds it nicelly. This basic stroker is allmost a street build, maybe like you were building an Hemi, and Hemis are a stock build on a stock driveline. Remember the 451 is not more than a 440 on a lighter 400 housing, and lighter rotation assembly too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrZo8-7uvDs

I never build the engine for 1/4 mile race even SOMEDAY will take to the track just to know what I have in hands, not for win anything.

take in mind if your block still holds standard bore, I have the pistons for it.

Nacho you did a GREAT job your charger is a BEAST!!

[Nacho-RT74]

OH and also I didn't go with a fancy chromed look on engine bay... I love the stock look just like a sleeper. A car able to look pure stock on a show once hood is open, and just noticeable the job on engine when is running.

Heads were ported by me, bigger valves too, I hate headers so used the stock HP exhaust manifolds ( even I know the headers are the first performance step to get some extra HPs, but didn't care about, I hate the headers riding on streets and meet a bump ). Intake is the basic 2186 ( performer, but not the RPM Performer ) Edelbrock cheap piece which I got used and painted to the stock engine color. This intake is allmost an aluminium replacement for the iron piece, but still is a bit higher than the stock piece, so can get more port velocity than the stock piece. I had to cut some areas of the intake to install correctly all the stock A/C brackets

Is a beast? dunno, definitelly looks GREAT, but dunno really if is an HP or torque beast LOL... I just build it having fun with it without really care about get all the juice posible from it. Maybe I should combine some other pieces too, like headers and better intake, but wasn't my goal really. Pretty sure still can be tuned better too. Engine is dissasembled at this moment to make some block deck corrections ( bad machine shop job ) and the correct quench to save from pinging I was having when assembled. Car is also at a body job since 5 years ago.

[Nacho-RT74]

this are the specs on the standard bore KB pistons

The skirt diameter on a KB215.STD is 4.3410" to 4.3405".  If your bore is at  nominal 4.342" you will have .001" to .0015" so you may have to hone to get .0015" to .002" recommended clearance.

Thank you for the inquiry,

Marko

Marko Glush

So if your block is standard and the bore diameter gets up to 4.344" after a hone job and considering the regular wear and saving the ring step by this wear, you will be fine with standard KB pistons like the ones I have available for sale. A 451 ( down a 0.030"-0.033" overbore size ) displacement sounds GREAT, but a 444 ( build on standard bore ) on same build is practically the same. The compression rate increase and longer stroke is what will make the difference, more than those 6-7 cubic inches difference between a "444" and a "451", without need to cut the cylinders more than really needed.

Is really like compare a standard 440 and a +0.030" 440 in performance. If you don't need really to cut the block, why make it ?

[Nacho-RT74]

This is the more important article about this build and used as a main reference on Mopar world. Here is where the counterweight diameter cut is adviced ( with measurements ) for extra clearence.

http://arengineering.com/tech/451-manifesto/

I didn't posted before just because they advice to use 440 rods and makes mention to some other jobs ( which tipically ppl makes ). I posted the other one just showing exactly what I build, nothing fancy but pretty much basic, meeting even the camshaft advice from the author of the article. The MP I have and can get rid off meets this advice, same as the crower I finally used

there are some threads about this build "for homies" on this board, posted by engine experts here ( far away from what I am ). I think was written by Challenger340, including some pics.

once again, I build it with what I had in hands "on the cheap", and meeting my "needs". Really didn't need more than a "basic" build. Is the first performance engine I build

[ppaavvss]

This is the more important article about this build and used as a main reference on Mopar world. Here is where the counterweight diameter cut is adviced ( with measurements ) for extra clearence.

http://arengineering.com/tech/451-manifesto/

I didn't posted before just because they advice to use 440 rods and makes mention to some other jobs ( which tipically ppl makes ). I posted the other one just showing exactly what I build, nothing fancy but pretty much basic, meeting even the camshaft advice from the author of the article. The MP I have and can get rid off meets this advice, same as the crower I finally used

there are some threads about this build "for homies" on this board, posted by engine experts here ( far away from what I am ). I think was written by Challenger340, including some pics.

once again, I build it with what I had in hands "on the cheap", and meeting my "needs". Really didn't need more than a "basic" build. Is the first performance engine I build

Nacho thank you very much to guide me about all this stuff, now I am going to read all the information you gave me and soon I will post the step by step a I did to my engine.

I am not looking to gain 500 hp but to improve my 400 engine, so I really appreciate your help and time helping me!