Illegal Immigration!

[last426]

It was an email without credits given.  I presented it as it was presented to me, i.e. "as is".  You stated they the data was from the Los Angeles Times, yet you want me to verify the Los Angeles Time's postings for you.  If you don't have the "time or the inclination" to refute the data, then your post is pointless.

I didn't state it was from the Times, you did (may I suggest that you read your own posting).  Why in the world should I refute your data -- that's trying to prove a negative.  I mean, c'mon, you post as true an unverified email?  An email, I might add, where you don't even know its source?  So write back to your friend and ask him or her to cite the dates of the Times where they got their examples or do you agree that it is not verible, thusly not true, and you withdraw that posting?  I expected better.  Kim

[253862656971]

It was an email without credits given.  I presented it as it was presented to me, i.e. "as is".  You stated they the data was from the Los Angeles Times, yet you want me to verify the Los Angeles Time's postings for you.  If you don't have the "time or the inclination" to refute the data, then your post is pointless.

I didn't state it was from the Times, you did (may I suggest that you read your own posting).  Why in the world should I refute your data -- that's trying to prove a negative.  I mean, c'mon, you post as true an unverified email?  An email, I might add, where you don't even know its source?  So write back to your friend and ask him or her to cite the dates of the Times where they got their examples or do you agree that it is not verible, thusly not true, and you withdraw that posting?  I expected better.  Kim

Oh the irony of this post. 

[Big Lebowski]

Immigration- FACTS

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are
working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

[snip]
(All 10 from the Los Angeles Times)

[snip of more inaccuracies]

Talking about illegal (copyright violation), of all things to quote without giving credit, you post the rantings of Rick Roberts, a rabid talk show host in San Diego I believe.  I don't have time or the inclination to go through the points one by one, especially since you just cut and pasted them but take point one for instance.  Note how it says 40 percent of workers are illegal (I strongly dispute that but even assuming it is correct) and then lists the population of LA county, not the population of the workers in LA county.  And a large number of illegal immigrants do pay taxes -- if they are workers at a factory or most large farms they do.

Please cite the date and page of the Times for each of those 10 points so that I can verify your posting, otherwise, thanks for playiing. Kim

  "you post the rantings of Rick Roberts, a rabid talk show host in San Diego"...As opposed to the Pres. of the Saddam Hussein Fan Club Al Franken, the commie liberal radio host at Air (going broke) America. 

[Vainglory, Esq.]

I'll spare you my economic theories, since everybody seems to hate them (even though they always seem to work in real life), but heavy immigration increases the standard of living in free countries, allows for better job opportunities, and is a very effective safeguard against inflation.

And in response to those who disagree with me but can't come up with factual bases to counter me, I've lived in about 8 states and two countries, I've worked in construction alongside and even under Mexican laborers, I'm anything but a commie, I didn't participate in any protests today, and there are literally millions of acres of habitable but uninhabited land in this country.  But like I said, if the majority thinks that immigration is bad, they have the right to stop it, however wrong it may be.  I also think that for immigration to be effective in the ways I said, there need to be fundamental changes in the level and actual legality of government handouts in this country.

[Chryco Psycho]

I wish I could get a green card or citizenship 

Head South and find yourself an American girl to marry.

If you are already married, knock up you Wife and head South in about 8 months for a six week vacation. 

It'll cost you a bundle to have the Child born out of the country but it's the "fast track" route to getting into the United States.

Actually I have been trying to do it legally for over 25 years , Know any decent women to marry ? it takes roughly 5 years to get citizenshiup after marrage , I doubt I could live with trash that long
I have been looking for 1 Great woman  for 30 years now    & yes I am stil single

[Mike DC]

Hey guys.  Interesting discussion I've been missing. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anybody else catch the slick game that Washington & the media are playing on the public right now?

I think the American public wants to have a discussion about regaining control of the borders right now.  They'll start thinking about dealing with the existing illegals after the new flooding has been stopped.  But I think Washington (both sides) would much rather talk about dealing with the existing 12 million instead of talking about the borders.

Why? 
Because the only realistic answer to this second question is to give amnesty for at least a majority of the illegals.  And then Washington will continue to ignore the borders for another few decades while the borders continue to flow.  It'll be another round of what Washington/Reagan did back in the 80s. 

See? 
Here's your choices:

#1:  Say & do nothing.  The borders stay open.  Illegals flow in and work cheap.

#2:  Demand closed borders.  The borders will stay open.  Illegals will flow in, work cheap, and be given amnesty/work progams.  With amnesty, the corporate world gets in less trouble hiring them.

   

[squeakfinder]

A friend of mine who is a farmer told me; It state's in his social security hand book that he is not allowed to question people on the information they give him. Yet he's not supposed to hire them if there not legal.

     

[nh_mopar_fan]

I liked the idiot with the sign that said"

"Being Illegal is not a crime".

[twilt]

I am amused by the claim of some, that the "illegals only do work that nobody wants to do" Thats a ludicrous concept.  The reality is that the illegals  undercut the wages of legals to the extent that it isn`t feasible for the legals to remain in those occupations any longer.  My dad provided a good example of this to me a few weeks ago. He owns a rental property condo here in the Atlanta area.... The current landscaping/ maintenance contracts of the Condo complex are approximately 50% LESS than they were 20 YEARS AGO. Why?? quite obviously the usage of illegals as cheap labor by the contractors.   

Here in the Atlanta area, it is quite apparent that most construction related contractors cannot survive unless they hire illegals. If they hire legals and pay reasonable wages, they cannot stay competetive when submitting contract bids.

I have no beef with immigration. However,  there is a right way (legal) and wrong way (illegal) for it to happen. The governments total failure to enforce its own existing laws is a national disgrace.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Twilt's statement is correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Although the illegals haven't affected my current full time job,  they have affected my part time work! Its difficult to win a bid against someone that hires the illegals.You end up working for next to nothing.
It doesn't mean I don't want the job, it means its not worth my time and effort.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

If the above posts are correct (and I believe they contain a good bit of truth), then doesn't it seem to make a whole lot more sense to reform the laws and policies regarding immigration (allow people to question information given at a job interview, perhaps?) than to offer up a knee-jerk response that amounts to "kick the brown bastards out"?  There are so, so many common sense fixes that are possible on local, state and federal levels that would give us the best of immigration without its downsides, which tend to be all self-contained in fear-based personal perspectives anyway.  Just saying "I'm against [illegal] immigration" is consciously choosing to ignore the facts.

It seems to me, however, that this truly is a fear-based issue.  So how about this.  If you're afraid of the brown man lurking in the dark, buy a night light.  Or take a long, hard look at the facts.

[SeattleCharger]

  The above statements I agree with, and are similar to the argument of whether or not raising the minimum wage would put small businesses out of business.

   Basically the immigrants are workng for a "new" minimum wage.

         A lot of Republicans love that their is a huge workforce working for cheap, without having to pay them L&I, befefits, overtime, etc,.   similar to union busting or even old fashioned cheap mass labor in factories throughout the industrial revolution, etc., the powers that be benefit,

                              Just shows Republicans are full of it, saying that higher wages help the economy by people spending more money and stimulating the economy, they really mean that a few rich people having more money to spend on yachts stimulates the economy, and having a bunch of cheap labor to do their landscaping and clean their pool and paint their house means they can get the S 500 class Mercedes AND a Porsche C4 Carrera and a skiing vaction in the Alps and a couple tropical vacations in the winter, whatever.    The Repulicans are just tricky.  You think they didn't notice there are millions and millions of cheap laborers that have no rights, can't make a complaint against a complany for unsafe conditions, etc.,  it costs more for a business to operate by all the rules, paying L&I, benefits, overtime, following all the OSHA rules, and all the other rules, by far than what it costs to pay some welfare to a number of "legal" immigrants.   

  Nothing is really going to change after all this, just more crap to take people's mind off the war and Exxon bending everyone over.  

[nh_mopar_fan]

It may be a shocker to you but, believe it or not, Democrats are actually in business as well. I bet they even employ people.

Honestly......

[derailed]

Just noticed yesterday was my garbage pick up day and its still down at the bottom of the driveway along with everyone elses   

[SeattleCharger]

It may be a shocker to you but, believe it or not, Democrats are actually in business as well. I bet they even employ people.

Honestly......

    I went to Home Depot last summer when I wanted some help on a deck staining job.   I just like blaming stuff on the Republicans now and then.     

            like this:    http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060501204109990004&ncid=NWS00010000000001

[hemi68charger]

Like previously mentioned, Illegal is the key word here.. First and foremost, all should write their Federal representatives. I have written both my Senators and Congressional representative and expressed my dislike of people illegally coming here and failing to assimulate in a proper way. And to top it off, they want to same rights as citizens for whom I'm protecting with my militaary service? I think not........ I've already received correspondence for Sen. Hutchison's office, she agrees with me.........  I don't like illegal immigration in any form from any where, period. I have friends I've worked with at the global company I'm at that have had to go back Europe, because they follow the rules........ Sucks, but those are the rules.........

Troy

[bull]

If the above posts are correct (and I believe they contain a good bit of truth), then doesn't it seem to make a whole lot more sense to reform the laws and policies regarding immigration (allow people to question information given at a job interview, perhaps?) than to offer up a knee-jerk response that amounts to "kick the brown bastards out"?  There are so, so many common sense fixes that are possible on local, state and federal levels that would give us the best of immigration without its downsides, which tend to be all self-contained in fear-based personal perspectives anyway.  Just saying "I'm against [illegal] immigration" is consciously choosing to ignore the facts.

Reform the laws? There are more than enough immigration laws in place that aren't being enforced so what makes you think more laws or different laws will solve anything? These people shouldn't be here in the first place if it's illegal for them to be, don't you think? The problem with your specified theory above (giving employers more power during interviews) is that it continues to put us on defense rather than offense. Any law reform that places more of a burden on our local govt. and employers would be foolishness. Once illegals are in-country the time and costs related to processing them and getting them out are too high, not to mention the costs involved with them using our "free" govt. services while they are here. The only knee-jerking I see is you playing the race card against those who would like to see people follow the legal process of immigration. And these recent protests are tantamount to thieves protesting the fact that theft is illegal.

[John_Kunkel]

And in response to those who disagree with me but can't come up with factual bases to counter me, I've lived in about 8 states and two countries, I've worked in construction alongside and even under Mexican laborers, I'm anything but a commie, I didn't participate in any protests today, and there are literally millions of acres of habitable but uninhabited land in this country. 

You're avoiding the basics; for every acre of "habitable land" how many more acres are needed to support those living on that land? How many acres will need to be sacrificed to build roads to that land? Is there a source of drinkable water? How much more pollution will the new inhabitants produce?

There is a distinct advantage to leaving unihabited lands uninhabited.

[bull]

And in response to those who disagree with me but can't come up with factual bases to counter me, I've lived in about 8 states and two countries, I've worked in construction alongside and even under Mexican laborers, I'm anything but a commie, I didn't participate in any protests today, and there are literally millions of acres of habitable but uninhabited land in this country. 

You're avoiding the basics; for every acre of "habitable land" how many more acres are needed to support those living on that land? How many acres will need to be sacrificed to build roads to that land? Is there a source of drinkable water? How much more pollution will the new inhabitants produce?

There is a distinct advantage to leaving unihabited lands uninhabited.

I think Vain is oblivious to the fact that most of the "vacant" land in the United States is used by farmers to feed a vast portion of humanity. Not to mention all the natural resources we export and utilize for our own use.

[squeakfinder]

Amnesty = being given the wright to break the law.


This IS what they want wright?

[SeattleCharger]

       

                      Osama Bin Ladin still has a job,  . . .        do you?


         
               

[squeakfinder]

   When your hiding in a cave, I'd have to say your not doing to well.

  Seattle is the wright city for you.
 

[SeattleCharger]

   When your hiding in a cave, I'd have to say your not doing to well.

  Seattle is the wright city for you.
 

  Ya, did he live in a palace before or something?     I didn't mean "you".    Rhetorical question to Americans. 

[Big Lebowski]

  Securing the border?...No one should be surprised the day a suitcase Nuke goes off...after somebody just walks it accross the border. That is Osamas plan A.

[hemi68charger]

Seems there are two Federal Agencies that DON"T compliment or communicate with each other; The Department of Homeland Security and INS...

Troy