Illegal Immigration!

[dkn1997]

I am not opposed to immigrants. My family came from Germany. Just do it legally. Oh, and speak the freakin language. . . .

...however, around here, in my little world, it's not that we hire immigrants any cheaper than full citizens.   It's just that citizens don't want to do the work.  We give the lowest level laborers $11-13/hour.  All they have to do is have a license, show up every day, and ride in a truck and take instructions.  This with full medical benefits, 401k, pension/profit sharing plan/monthly bonuses/paid sick-personal and paid vacation.
If they manage that for a month and get put onto their own truck to do nothing more than vacuum pools, they can get $15/hour the first year.

In two years, I have had 1 white guy come through the door who is handling this properly.  I have had a couple of spanish guys come in who were promising.  1 got a DWI in our truck, 1 is a good mechanic, but cannot seem to speak english any better than he did 2 years ago.

It's pretty affluent on Long Island, and I think most of the "good" ones (whatever color they are)  are going to college and aspire to work in an office, not with their hands.

Immigrant or not, all people just plain suck sometimes!!!  rant over.

[Plumcrazy]

Do we have a shortage of land mines?

I've got plenty in my back yard (the dog poop variety).

And I'll bet you don't have a problem with illegal aliens in your house.

[bull]

my turn.  First of all, We need immigration.  Here is why, and this applies to wealthier areas like where I live.  I am not wealthy, but the average home on Long Island, NY, unless it's in a real shitbag area, costs anywhere from 350-500k.

The kids of people who make good money around here will NOT do the "laborer" class of jobs. Mowing lawns, vacuuming pools, or basically anything that requires you to strain yourself.  The white guys want to be CEO on the first day of work. 

That's not a valid argument in favor of immigration, it's just a sad commentary on the poor work ethics of too many people in this country.

[dkn1997]

It's not meant to be an argument in favor of immigration, rather an argument for the NEED for immigration.

[squeakfinder]

   First off, what triggered this immigration debate recently? Oh that's right, homeland security is putting pressure on securing are boarders. These a--holes doing the protest's are saying us white folks are all a bunch racist's? Tell you what, these parade's are not going to help race relations. It doesn't have antthing to do with color of your skin anyway, it has to do with making people check in before they enter the country.

   What are we supposed to do? Open the door and let everyone in? Why just Mexico? How about Europe,India,Russia or open the door to any other country? It's not going to happen because if it did we will cease to be a country.

  Maybee if a wall would have been put up along time ago with Mexico there would have been a revolution and they would have overthrown there corrupt governments by now.

[dkn1997]

    Maybee if a wall would have been put up along time ago with Mexico there would have been a revolution and they would have overthrown there corrupt governments by now.

you got it!!  before we all started talking about this problem, we should have asked "why?" 

If south america would get it's act together, maybe the US would no be so attractive to people.

[teddy1500]

well, it certainly looks like we (Americans) are losing, and being taken advantage of. What can we do? I have an idea. lets offer to allow Mexico to become the 51st state? That would level the playing field, make ALL Mexicans legal TAXPAYERS. the south end of Mexico is smaller, much easier to defend.
My family immigrated, I am a first generation American, I am a vetern of the US Navy, and I love my country. I just wish that other people had more respect for our country. If you want to be here, why cant you do so according to the laws
If I break the law in Mexico, I will go to a Mexico jail, here, we just send them back, Americans are robbed by the Police in Mexico, you can't even take a rental carto Mexico, It will get stolen, These same people come here, and break our laws

[71bee]

LEARN ENGLISH (i believe it was required in order for me to graduate High School), GET A GREEN CARD, WORK..........man, I really miss the good ol' days when we would all be talking about our president getting head jobs instead of this crap!

[71440charger]

Like i have said before i dont like it but take a look around and go back in history unlike other countrys there is not a one of us unless you are full blooded indian you came from a diferent country or at least your blood line did but like i say they should come to america just like our ansistors did doit legal.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Those opposed to immigration are often characterized as being racial bigots but I would end ALL immigration based on my belief that the United States is full, there isn't room for any more people, regardless of ethnicity. Put too many rats in an enclosed space and they start attacking each other; sound familiar?   

Each new immigrant consumes resources, they need water, sewers, energy, etc. all of which taxes the already shaky infrastructure. When a theater is full they post a sign saying SRO (standing room only). The U.S. is rapidly approaching SRO, I say eliminate the INS, reinforce the Border Patrol, close the borders and erect triple fences with guard towers, razor wire, land mines, etc. Shoot all infiltrators!!!

Of course, that's just my opinion but I'd volunteer to man one of those guard towers gratis.

You really, REALLY need to look up your facts.  Here's a population density chart to help you out.

Region                      Area (sq. km.)            Population                  Density
U.S. (lower 48)          9,161,923                 295,734,134               32
France                      545,630                    60,656,178                 111
Connecticut               12,549                     3,593,604                   286
1/2 World in U.S.        9,161,923                3,000,000,000             360
England                     130,346                   50,093,800                 384
Netherlands               41,526                     16,407,491                  395
New Jersey                19,215                     8,698,879                   453
Whole world in U.S.     9,161,923                6,000,000,000             655
Staten Island              167                         457,383                      2,739
1/2 world in Calif.        403,970                   3,000,000,000             7,426
Queens                     293                          2,220,000                   7,577
Whole world in TX       678,357                  6,000,000,000             8,845


As you can see, the United States is far from standing room only.  If we were to put half the world within the borders of our lower 48, we would have less density than the Netherlands, which still manages to be the third largest agricultural exporter in the world.  If we were to put the entire world in Texas, we would still have less density than Manhattan Island - and the whole rest of the world would be a park.

You need to seriously examine your premises and your definitions before you go and talk.  Looking at it comparatively, the U.S. is disgustingly underpopulated.  Looking at it any other way introduces your subjective judgments - which have ample factual grounds to be disagreed with.

[greenpigs]

Just because there is room, doesn't mean they are welcome\needed\wanted.

[Todd Wilson]

Those opposed to immigration are often characterized as being racial bigots but I would end ALL immigration based on my belief that the United States is full, there isn't room for any more people, regardless of ethnicity. Put too many rats in an enclosed space and they start attacking each other; sound familiar?   

Each new immigrant consumes resources, they need water, sewers, energy, etc. all of which taxes the already shaky infrastructure. When a theater is full they post a sign saying SRO (standing room only). The U.S. is rapidly approaching SRO, I say eliminate the INS, reinforce the Border Patrol, close the borders and erect triple fences with guard towers, razor wire, land mines, etc. Shoot all infiltrators!!!

Of course, that's just my opinion but I'd volunteer to man one of those guard towers gratis.

You really, REALLY need to look up your facts.  Here's a population density chart to help you out.

Region                      Area (sq. km.)            Population                  Density
U.S. (lower 48)          9,161,923                 295,734,134               32
France                      545,630                    60,656,178                 111
Connecticut               12,549                     3,593,604                   286
1/2 World in U.S.        9,161,923                3,000,000,000             360
England                     130,346                   50,093,800                 384
Netherlands               41,526                     16,407,491                  395
New Jersey                19,215                     8,698,879                   453
Whole world in U.S.     9,161,923                6,000,000,000             655
Staten Island              167                         457,383                      2,739
1/2 world in Calif.        403,970                   3,000,000,000             7,426
Queens                     293                          2,220,000                   7,577
Whole world in TX       678,357                  6,000,000,000             8,845


As you can see, the United States is far from standing room only.  If we were to put half the world within the borders of our lower 48, we would have less density than the Netherlands, which still manages to be the third largest agricultural exporter in the world.  If we were to put the entire world in Texas, we would still have less density than Manhattan Island - and the whole rest of the world would be a park.

You need to seriously examine your premises and your definitions before you go and talk.  Looking at it comparatively, the U.S. is disgustingly underpopulated.  Looking at it any other way introduces your subjective judgments - which have ample factual grounds to be disagreed with.

Did you pull all those numbers out of your ass   or one of your school books?


Todd

[Iceyone]

I know all about the hassle, paperwork and expense involved in LEGALLY immigrating here, because I went through it in bringing my wife here. The illegal aliens should have to go back and wait in line, just like my wife had to do.

[derailed]

 Looking at it comparatively, the U.S. is disgustingly underpopulated.

   Thats a good one

[squeakfinder]

I didn't see a density report on Australia. Allthough it would be irrelevant because so much of the country is uninhabitable. Kind of like many parts of the US. Vainglory it kind of sounds like you haven't traveled across the country. Take a look at eastern Oregon, much of the midwest, the greater part of Texas, people don't live in these place's for a reason. There's one thing that most towns and city's have to have. And that is a good source of water.

Well I didn't mean to get off topic. I'm not against immigration if it's legal, but we have to be practical. There's only so much industry in the US to support a certain amount of people.

   Vainglory, I hope you don't get fired from your job today when you don't show up for work to participate in your anti American communist parade.

[Todd Wilson]

  There's only so much industry in the US to support a certain amount of people.

   

YUP!   And its all going to other countrys! Maybe they should stay home to get a job at a Chrysler or Ford plant in Mexico.



Todd

[Big Lebowski]

 Today I did the un-imaginable, since all the taco shops are closed, I made my own lunch. Wow, that was really nerve racking, but I survived the ordeal. It's a good thing this walkout wont go on for days, otherwise I would starve for sure.

[resq302]

Brian,

I came over here with my parents in 1963, legally. My parents learned the language, became citizens, raised 3 kids and are now retired. They never came looking for a handout and never accepted one.

You can thank Fat Boy Kennedy and LBJ for the state of current immigration policy. His support of the Immigration Act on 1965 opened up the flood gates.

Exactly what you said.  LEGALLY!  The problem today is that everyone comes to the US illlegally and that immigration does not deport them cause of the tons of paperwork.  What we should do is whenever they protest, go in and ask for their green cards... no green card, get on the boat!  Half the problem is the paperwork or that immigration says "well it is the weekend, tell them to come to our office on Monday".  Half of the accidents that happen on the road is becaues the immigrants are illegal and do not posess a drivers license or SPEAK or READ the ENGLISH LANGUAGE!  I have no problems if you want to come to our country legally to work and get a better life, but darn it, do it LEGALLY and LEARN our LANGUAGE before you come here! 

Rant off.

[73dodge]

Don't have a problem with LEGAL immigrants, the ones who pay taxes came here and entered LEGALLY!!!!

My parents came here from Venzuela in the 60's they HAD to have a job before they got here and a person to sponser them. They came here with no preconceived assumptions.

1. They did not come for a welfare check.
2. They did not come for free hospital care.
3. They came to BECOME AMERICAN, and learn the language, my mom & dad can speak Italian, Spanish and English. They did not demand forms be printed in Italian for them and did not demand people speak to them in anything other than English.

THEY CAME FOR AN OPPROTUNITY FOR A BETTER LIFE and played by the rules not demand that the rules be changed just for them. They did the hard work and earned a citizenship not sneak across the broder and then demand the government grant them citizenship.


I have a cousin right now who left Venezuela and is trying to become a US citizen and he refuses to do it illegally because he wants to do right. Unfortunetly all the illegals coming makes it harder for the ones who want to do it on the up and up. 

[Sublime/Sixpack]

 I am very much against illegal immigration!  I see it as being a very serious problem for this country!

I'm not against Mexican people or for that matter people of any nationality immigrating to the United States if they do it legally, embrace it, and be good peace loving, productive people.

[Charger74]

For twenty years I lived an hour from the Mexican border in Southern Arizona (where the MinuteMen are setup currently).  I have seen and know what happens with most of the people that come across the border illegally.   

First, they leave trash every where they go and setup  camp at.

Second, they cross through peoples properties cutting through fences that are meant to keep cows and other animals in.  You cannot neccessarily as a land owner do anything because first the government will not reimburse you for the damage to your property.  You have to be careful because you don't know if they are drug runners or just people crossing.  So most of the time, having a gun isn't an option.   I have had/known many people's houses that have been shot up by illegals/smugglers, their dogs killed and their animals stolen/butchered.  You might be able to call 911 but usually they are gone by the time the police or border patrol show up.  So holding them up or shooting /at them can and has would up putting the land owner in jail or court for protecting their property.

Third, a few years ago, a hospital that was in a town closer to the border had to close due to the fact they could not support the free loading illegals anymore.  So the real AMERICAN citizens now have to travel an extra half hour or more to get to a full fledged hospital.

Forth, these people come through in the hottest part of the summer time.  Hello,  not many people cann survive 110-120 degree weather with 1 -2 gallons jugs of water, hence they raid your wells and faucet's. Plus leave the bodies of those that could not make it for us to take care (autopsy, burials and identification).  Back to point two.


I agree that this country needs immigrants.  But I believe they should do it legally.  I personally feel that all the immigrants here legally should be just flaming pissed off that these people think we should just get citizenship handed to them while everyone else busted a** for it.  No, I don't have any ideas on how to fix this, but agree that it needs to be fixed.  Unfortunately I don't see the idiots in DC figuring it out anytime soon.

[SirNik73]

The problem has a simple solution.

First, build a wall.
Second. Build a Huge Immigration Station similar to Ellis Island in Texas and California. Make it easier to get into the country. If you make it easier to go through the immigration station then it is to climb the wall, no one will be climbing the wall.
Build Similar Immigration stations on the east coast and the west coast to make it easier for immigrants from other country to come in.
Once the infrastructure is built, grant amnesty to the entire illegal immigrant population on the US side of the wall.
At this point the US will be free of Illegals, and it will be easy to immigrants to come in legally, paying taxes, and with documentation.

I know a wall will cost a lot up front, but it will pay for its self in the taxes gained by the legal immigrants that will come thought the immigration stations.

[squeakfinder]

I agree with the wall, as monumental a task as it may be. But I don't agree with amnesty. If word gets out that there is going to be amnesty the flood of illegals will increase, in fact thats probably happening wright now.

[John_Kunkel]

Those opposed to immigration are often characterized as being racial bigots but I would end ALL immigration based on my belief that the United States is full, there isn't room for any more people, regardless of ethnicity. Put too many rats in an enclosed space and they start attacking each other; sound familiar?   

Each new immigrant consumes resources, they need water, sewers, energy, etc. all of which taxes the already shaky infrastructure. When a theater is full they post a sign saying SRO (standing room only). The U.S. is rapidly approaching SRO, I say eliminate the INS, reinforce the Border Patrol, close the borders and erect triple fences with guard towers, razor wire, land mines, etc. Shoot all infiltrators!!!

Of course, that's just my opinion but I'd volunteer to man one of those guard towers gratis.

You really, REALLY need to look up your facts.  Here's a population density chart to help you out.

Region                      Area (sq. km.)            Population                  Density
U.S. (lower 48)          9,161,923                 295,734,134               32
France                      545,630                    60,656,178                 111
Connecticut               12,549                     3,593,604                   286
1/2 World in U.S.        9,161,923                3,000,000,000             360
England                     130,346                   50,093,800                 384
Netherlands               41,526                     16,407,491                  395
New Jersey                19,215                     8,698,879                   453
Whole world in U.S.     9,161,923                6,000,000,000             655
Staten Island              167                         457,383                      2,739
1/2 world in Calif.        403,970                   3,000,000,000             7,426
Queens                     293                          2,220,000                   7,577
Whole world in TX       678,357                  6,000,000,000             8,845


As you can see, the United States is far from standing room only.  If we were to put half the world within the borders of our lower 48, we would have less density than the Netherlands, which still manages to be the third largest agricultural exporter in the world.  If we were to put the entire world in Texas, we would still have less density than Manhattan Island - and the whole rest of the world would be a park.

You need to seriously examine your premises and your definitions before you go and talk.  Looking at it comparatively, the U.S. is disgustingly underpopulated.  Looking at it any other way introduces your subjective judgments - which have ample factual grounds to be disagreed with.

So, as long as we're not standing shoulder-to-shoulder there's plenty of room left?

Overpopulation isn't all about bodies per square whatever, it's also about resources and the use of the land; what's the use of having a million acres per capita if there's no water, no place for the trash/sewage, no utilities?  A simple look at the smog over major cities, the rush hour traffic jams, etc. tells you there are too many people. Those places noted above with more population density have their share of congestion related problems, why wait until we are at those numbers? Stop population growth now!!!! Stop it by stopping all immigration, regardless of ethnicity.

[Sinister68]

Immigration- FACTS

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are
working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

[snip]
(All 10 from the Los Angeles Times)

[snip of more inaccuracies]

Talking about illegal (copyright violation), of all things to quote without giving credit, you post the rantings of Rick Roberts, a rabid talk show host in San Diego I believe.  I don't have time or the inclination to go through the points one by one, especially since you just cut and pasted them but take point one for instance.  Note how it says 40 percent of workers are illegal (I strongly dispute that but even assuming it is correct) and then lists the population of LA county, not the population of the workers in LA county.  And a large number of illegal immigrants do pay taxes -- if they are workers at a factory or most large farms they do.

Please cite the date and page of the Times for each of those 10 points so that I can verify your posting, otherwise, thanks for playiing. Kim

It was an email without credits given.  I presented it as it was presented to me, i.e. "as is".  You stated they the data was from the Los Angeles Times, yet you want me to verify the Los Angeles Time's postings for you.  If you don't have the "time or the inclination" to refute the data, then your post is pointless.