Cam in a matching numbers 440 bad idea?

[BigD1970RT]

I have 1970 charger rt 440 4spd.  I am having the motor rebuilt and was asked if I wanted to put in a hotter cam.  Can I get some opinions on weather this is a bad idea.  The motor is 030 over.  But the car is bone stock.  Original interior reprint but in factory color. Matching number everything.  Is this going to hurt the value if so how much.

Thanks Dave!

[Nacho-RT74]

being a 4 speed you are more free to play with that.
But I'm not the guy to make the best suggestion... maybe some opinion after some professional sugestion

welcome aboard

[Highbanked Hauler]

  Are you racing or cruising, are you going to keep it forever or sell it in a year ?  If you are going to drive it shows and cruising a  factory 484 lift is comfortable. I have had one in my numbers car for 22 years with no complaints. If your racing then  there are people here who can help you.

[BigD1970RT]

Cruising, shows with possible sale you never know.

[68X426]

Once you kick the cam up a notch or two, you are on the road to never ending upgrades.  Next you'll want a better carb to help the cam, then an intake, and you gotta' change out the ignition, likely add lower gears, on and on. 

I think it's a slippery slope.  Best to make a hard decision now to stay stock - or - commit to start on-going upgrading.

My opinion is to keep it stock.  It's a great motor as is.

[cdr]

Put a stock cam back in it, because they probobly put the wrong,low compression pistons in it.  

[Nacho-RT74]

Given the specs, stock engine... maybe mrsixpack cam?

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/mrsixpackHOF.html

[70sixpkrt]

Given the specs, stock engine... maybe mrsixpack cam?

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/mrsixpackHOF.html/quote]

I would call him and ask him for one of his cams.

[BSB67]

Put a stock cam back in it, because they probobly put the wrong,low compression pistons in it.  

Of course it is not a stock rebuild as pointed out, as replacement pistons have not been available for 25 years.  What pistons did the builder use?

Mr sixpack is good.  Crowed 271,  MP .455..

Adding a little cam will not send you into the abyss.  But it is nice to add a little more carb and intake.  And if you don't want to do that, consider a stock cam

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Back when I had both my 440's rebuilt (mid-1990's) I went with the Mopar Performance Hemi grind cam (280 duration and .474 lift) and the suggested MP valve springs. That cam has served me well through the years.
But that's not to say there isn't something better now days. The original Magnum cam isn't a bad choice, but I suggest you go with one that has a little more duration and lift than the stock cam.

[Nacho-RT74]

Mr sixpack is good.  Crowed 271,  MP .455..

that crower was to be my next opinion... not the MP455 though... would go to the suggested newer Hemi grind which is kinda close to the Crower, but simetric. ( actually closer to the Crower 282 )

I can get you one 280 .474 "hemi" grind for sale on its box... but I'm overseas LOL

[Nacho-RT74]

( Oh I like to play with everybody elses engines LOL )

[gtx6970]

Cam technology has come a long long way in 40 years. IMO,,,,talk to a cam company rep or quality engine builder  ( maybe several ) and go from there.

[BigD1970RT]

Thanks for all the replies.

Still not sure which way I want to go.

I guess my question boils down to this, if you were buying this car from me how much price reduction would you look for because of a hot cam?  Or would you look for one?

[BSB67]

Mr sixpack is good.  Crowed 271,  MP .455..

that crower was to be my next opinion... not the MP455 though... would go to the suggested newer Hemi grind which is kinda close to the Crower

Really.  Please share your personal experience with the MP 455.

[68X426]

Great question.  David, I got to deliver some harsh opinion and cold reality.

If I have cash in hand, ready to buy, and I come across your car, with a hot cam, AND nothing else upgraded, I think .... "The seller does not know what he was doing."

Without upgrades to the internals, values, the carb, intake, ignition, etc, I just take this situation as a lack of thinking and designing the whole package.  A hot cam, alone, detracts, and maybe even is a deal killer.  Like I said earlier, decide now on a final package, stock or upgraded.  A hot cam alone screams lack of planning to me.  Maybe lots will disagree, but I couldn't be more dis-inclined to take a classic Mopar seriously with just one component upgraded.

gtx6970 had excellent advice, cams have come a long way.  I just can't get past my personal bias that the seller didn't care to follow a sound design.

[justcruisin]

My view is that your decisions shouldn't be dictated to by adding or subtracting value, that seems to be your major concern. I guess everyone is in the hobby for different reasons.

[Nacho-RT74]

Mr sixpack is good.  Crowed 271,  MP .455..

that crower was to be my next opinion... not the MP455 though... would go to the suggested newer Hemi grind which is kinda close to the Crower

Really.  Please share your personal experience with the MP 455.

Not on my car but on a buddy's car. Not to far away from the stock I think. Not saying doesn't work but would fit something more noticeable. Even more being 4 speeds

[BSB67]

Mr sixpack is good.  Crowed 271,  MP .455..

that crower was to be my next opinion... not the MP455 though... would go to the suggested newer Hemi grind which is kinda close to the Crower

Really.  Please share your personal experience with the MP 455.

Not on my car but on a buddy's car. Not to far away from the stock I think. Not saying doesn't work but would fit something more noticeable. Even more being 4 speeds

The MP 455 is similar to the 271.  It is a nice increase from factory.  A low compression exhaust manifold car will not benefit from anything bigger.  The 280 would be a poorer choice.

[Nacho-RT74]

yes noticed the bigger differences are lift and asimetric pattern, included the exhaust duration. Not too far one from the other

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/mpcam-tech-c.htm

https://www.crower.com/camshafts/mopar-350-440-b-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-271-hdp.html

but still, being 4 speed and HiPO engine ( if using the correct pistons ) I think will bid for a tad more just an opinion.

[c00nhunterjoe]

yes noticed the bigger differences are lift and asimetric pattern, included the exhaust duration. Not too far one from the other

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/mpcam-tech-c.htm

https://www.crower.com/camshafts/mopar-350-440-b-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-271-hdp.html

but still, being 4 speed and HiPO engine ( if using the correct pistons ) I think will bid for a tad more just an opinion.

Even if it had higher compression pistons, the stock intake/carb and manifolds would choke it to the point of not being worth it.

[Challenger340]

Thanks for all the replies.

Still not sure which way I want to go.

I guess my question boils down to this, if you were buying this car from me how much price reduction would you look for because of a hot cam?  Or would you look for one?

WHAT PISTONS ARE BEING PUT INTO THE ENGINE DURING REBUILD ?

NO such thing anymore in the way of a cast replacement Piston, as the factory "correct" Compression Ratio, which may not just compromise the rebuild, but make Cam selection a moot point !

Forget the Cam....
The BIGGEST PRICE REDUCTION at resale will be if you rebuild using the WRONG Pistons = 230hp smogger motorhome terd !

Read here:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,118292.0.html

[BSB67]

yes noticed the bigger differences are lift and asimetric pattern, included the exhaust duration. Not too far one from the other

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/mpcam-tech-c.htm

https://www.crower.com/camshafts/mopar-350-440-b-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-271-hdp.html

but still, being 4 speed and HiPO engine ( if using the correct pistons ) I think will bid for a tad more just an opinion.

You know that these numbers are incorrect, right.


http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/mpcam-tech-c.htm

[Nacho-RT74]

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/mpcam-tech-c.htm

I'm posting that website because the corrected numbers being measured... the 455 is advertised at 230 050 duration everywhere and there is being corrected at 221. If I didn't know that would have posted any other image with MP cam specs and not that one

I'd like to know the actual 474/280 cam 050 duration which I have read at moparts is actually 231 or so instead 238 advertised... which is good . Is not posted at that website.

WHAT PISTONS ARE BEING PUT INTO THE ENGINE DURING REBUILD ?

NO such thing anymore in the way of a cast replacement Piston, as the factory "correct" Compression Ratio, which may not just compromise the rebuild, but make Cam selection a moot point !

Forget the Cam....
The BIGGEST PRICE REDUCTION at resale will be if you rebuild using the WRONG Pistons = 230hp smogger motorhome terd !

Read here:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,118292.0.html

as mentioned, thats the big question OP need to know

Never though the problem with the earliers pistons production being not anymore available

http://www.campbellenterprises.com/mopar_sealed_power_cast_pistons.htm

Rockauto only gets one in 0.060

http://www.rockauto.com/es/catalog/dodge,1970,charger,7.2l+440cid+v8,1079096,engine,piston,5620

for a while... ( for the OP ) what about these ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Sealed-Power-Speed-Pro-L2266F-Forged-Piston-Set-8-440-Mopar-Flat-Top-1-991-/302474854385?epid=220083592&hash=item466ce7fff1:g:p-AAAOSw7cxZpxyq&vxp=mtr

I guess depending on the bore. but it seems these are still around... there are some other sellers still offering... like summit and even Rockauto

[Challenger340]

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/mpcam-tech-c.htm

I'm posting that website because the corrected numbers being measured... the 455 is advertised at 230 050 duration everywhere and there is being corrected at 221. If I didn't know that would have posted any other image with MP cam specs and not that one

I'd like to know the actual 474/280 cam 050 duration which I have read at moparts is actually 231 or so instead 238 advertised... which is good . Is not posted at that website.

WHAT PISTONS ARE BEING PUT INTO THE ENGINE DURING REBUILD ?

NO such thing anymore in the way of a cast replacement Piston, as the factory "correct" Compression Ratio, which may not just compromise the rebuild, but make Cam selection a moot point !

Forget the Cam....
The BIGGEST PRICE REDUCTION at resale will be if you rebuild using the WRONG Pistons = 230hp smogger motorhome terd !

Read here:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,118292.0.html

as mentioned, thats the big question OP need to know

Never though the problem with the earliers pistons production being not anymore available

http://www.campbellenterprises.com/mopar_sealed_power_cast_pistons.htm

Rockauto only gets one in 0.060

http://www.rockauto.com/es/catalog/dodge,1970,charger,7.2l+440cid+v8,1079096,engine,piston,5620

for a while... ( for the OP ) what about these ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Sealed-Power-Speed-Pro-L2266F-Forged-Piston-Set-8-440-Mopar-Flat-Top-1-991-/302474854385?epid=220083592&hash=item466ce7fff1:g:p-AAAOSw7cxZpxyq&vxp=mtr

I guess depending on the bore. but it seems these are still around... there are some other sellers still offering... like summit and even Rockauto

The PISTONS ADVERTISED BY SEALED POWER AS SUITABLE FOR RESTORATION, ARE GARBAGE, NOWHERE NEAR THEIR CLAIMED COMPRESSION RATIOS.... NOT EVEN CLOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sealed Power have NO CLUE, you can do the math with their Engineers(none left anyways) until you are blue in the face, write letters, they do NOT care if the published CR's are INACCURATE, as long as they keep selling Pistons !

* The 350P Piston = GARBAGE 8.6:1 Comp Ratio 440 Engine if you are lucky (using an 88 CC 906 Head)

* The 424P Piston = GARBAGE 7.7:1 Comp Ratio 440 Engine (using 88cc 906 Head)

* The Forged L2266F Piston = SAME GARBAGE 8.6:1 as the 350P Cast Piston

The only "decent" Sealed Power offering even worth consideration when trying to restore factory performance in these old Engines is the L2355F Forging, and even those being now made in INDIA with sizings so close to nominal Bore dimensions with the durashield coating, that safe Piston to wall fitting can be problematic, and can result in excessive ring end gaps without paying close attention when Honing with a T-Plate.
But at least the L2355F will get a guy closer to the 9.3:1 Comp Ratio mark using a 906 Head.