Frozen Wheel Cylinder?

[70sixpkrt]

I did a complete rear brake, front disc brake pads, proportioning valve, master cylinder, and wheel cylinders last month. 150 miles already. Last night I drove it to my buddies warehouse to adjust the rear brakes. The rear wheels were really loose so we adjusted them until a slight drag. Did not over tighten them. I drove home about 25 miles and pulled it in to the garage. When I got out of the car I smelled brakes and noticed a lot of smoke coming from the right rear tire. I did not drive with the e-brake on. Today we pulled the right rear tire and drum off. The drum was hard to pull off. Everything was cooked. When we stopped on the brake pedal with the drum off, we noticed that the forward shoe was moving but the rear shoe was not. The wheel cylinder was not pushing the rear shoe back or forth. We stopped and left it alone and walked away. I was very frustrated. Does that sound like a frozen wheel cylinder?

[bakerhillpins]

How much movement did you try to get out of the front shoe? Was it just enough to move the shoe or did you push it out far enough you were worried about dropping the piston? Sometimes one shoe moves before the other...

Or, Sounds like the rear piston is too loose for the bore and it's bound up.  Pull off the shoes and pull the boots/push rods. Put something under the backing plate to catch any fluid just in case. Take a look and see if the piston is visibly cockeyed in there.  Poke your finger in at the rear piston and push on it. See if it slides in. Or push on the brake pedal again and have the front piston fall out. Pull out the seal and the spring, then push on the rear piston from the back side with your finger or a screwdriver and see if it frees up.

Or just buy a new cylinder for $10 and skip the diagnosis.   

[70sixpkrt]

Just wondering if it sounds like a frozen wheel cylinder or something else.

[bakerhillpins]

I doubt its frozen in the sense that it seized up from lack of use. I'm betting the piston is bound up in the bore.

[70sixpkrt]

Cooked.

[A383Wing]

have someone hold the front shoe in while you push on the brake pedal...then see if the rear shoe moves.....might be just a difference in spring tension between the 2 shoes.....the one with the least spring pressure will always move first

[70sixpkrt]

I did that and the rear shoe just barely moved and the front one moved a lot.

[John_Kunkel]

The difference in return spring pressure could account for one shoe moving and not the other.

I'm curious, why did you manually adjust the brakes with self-adjusters? Backing up briskly and firmly applying the brakes a few times should take care of the adjustment.

[70sixpkrt]

I wanted to get a better emergency brake pedal. That's why I adjusted them. I'm thinking that the wheel cylinder might of gotten stuck after the adjustment. Since everything looks toast, I'm changing everything on the right rear.

[bakerhillpins]

I take it those are 10" drums?  Could you take a quick measurement for me. Trying to figure out my braking issues (11") and the data point would be useful.  This is the measurement I was interested in:

[bakerhillpins]

Cooked.

I don't think this is the cause of your trouble but the Secondary Shoe return spring is supposed to be on top of the primary spring per the FSM.

[70sixpkrt]

Mine are 11" drums. I put back the drum and tires on. When I pull them off again I will take a pic. It won't be for another couple of weeks.

[70sixpkrt]

Well did new brakes and wheel cylinder on the right rear side . Drove it about 20 miles and the left rear brakes got stuck and started smoking. I think it might be the Proportioning valve might be defective. Got a new replacement from the place I ordered it and installed it today. Will take it out probably tomorrow and see what happens.
Sorry I forgot to take a measurement. Could the self adjusters be the problem?

[holanae]

I think you have the wrong shoes on that rearend.  Reference a photo I took of my 11" rearend.  Look at the position of the composite compound on your shoe compared the composite compound my shoe.  Plus my lower (green) spring is positioned different from yours.  Either your lower spring is incorrect or mine is.  I referenced the service manual when rebuilding mine, but I could still have gotten it incorrect.  Also check to ensure your E brake cable isn't overly tight.  Just my initial observation.

[70sixpkrt]

I had 3 people come over and look at it. All of them says the shoes and springs were correct. We are thinking that the self adjusters for some reason are adjusting itself every time I apply the brakes. I took out the self adjusters and it is not seizing the brakes anymore. The only problem I have now is the right rear drum gets hotter than the left rear. I pulled out the right rear axle and found out that there was hardly any more grease on the bearing. We are thinking that the first time it seized the right rear it burned up all the grease. Like I said, it was very hot and smoking really bad.

[bakerhillpins]

I think you have the wrong shoes on that rearend.  Reference a photo I took of my 11" rearend.  Look at the position of the composite compound on your shoe compared the composite compound my shoe.  Plus my lower (green) spring is positioned different from yours.  Either your lower spring is incorrect or mine is.  I referenced the service manual when rebuilding mine, but I could still have gotten it incorrect.  Also check to ensure your E brake cable isn't overly tight.  Just my initial observation.

Your picture is of the other side of the car (drivers side), his is of the passenger side. Which is why you have the primary shoe and tension adjuster on the "other side" compared to his photo.  The configuration changes (mirror image) depending upon which side of the car you are on.

Any chance you can measure the gap between your shoes? (see my pic above)

[A383Wing]

I was wondering if the star adjusters were on the wrong side, meaning if you stepped on the brake while going forward, it would tighten up the shoe to drum clearance

[bakerhillpins]

I was wondering if the star adjusters were on the wrong side, meaning if you stepped on the brake while going forward, it would tighten up the shoe to drum clearance

Looks like he has it correct according to the FSM pages uploaded in this post. His pic shows the Right (passenger) rear:

[70sixpkrt]

I had the star adjusters correct per the FSM. I ended up changing my axle bearings. For some reason ,the right rear lugs get a tad hotter than the left rear still. I'm going to drive it a little while and see what happens. My brakes aren't seizing anymore after I changed the proportioning valve and removed the self adjusters.