Which transmission? Opinions

[RCCDrew]

So I'm putting together a drivetrain for my 69 Charger. I had to have overdrive transmission so I bought a fully built 46rh set up for big block. Wasn't cheap. This weekend I got lucky and picked up a 69 roadrunner parts car. Came complete with all the 4 speed parts. I just happen to have an aluminum OD a833 sitting in the garage. Now I'm at a dilemma. OD 4 speed or 46rh? Which one would you run?

[cdr]

the manual trans is WAY WAY easier to install, but I love my 46rh,a518.

[68CoronetRT]

Had a 4 speed. It was cool for about 2 years. Decided I wanted a RMVB 727. I enjoy the car alot more now. Wish I had over drive, but banging gears instantly is pretty awesome.

I went with a Cope 727. Love it!

[Scaregrabber]

Those original OD trans. had terrible ratio splits if you ask me, not that great to drive. The Passon OD setup is much nicer to drive.

[pipeliner]

Ain't no way I'd put the 4-speed OD in it. I'd put the Auto in it. I myself have a T-56 Magnum from SST.

[alfaitalia]

Its a cultural thing I'm sure......but its funny that in your MASSIVE country where I'm sure its possible to not have to change gears for hours at a time....the vast majority of you drives autos (be in modern or classics)....and over here in overcrowded, traffic jammed Britain auto are still a relatively small (but growing) market. The majority of autos sold here are where you have no choice (Range Rover, most Mercs, most Jeeps etc etc). I'm sure the silly cost of fuel over here affects our choices too. Only ever owned two autos, an Audi A8 4.2 V8 and a Grand Cherokee....neither being built as a manual.

EDIT...A quick google tells me that the UK last year bought 25% of the sold cars as an auto (double what I would have guessed to be honest) and in Europe as a whole its just 20%.
          In the USA its 96% autos!! Much higher than I would have ever guessed. I guess there are just not as many REAL drivers over there.......hey go easy on me....only joking!
          Even more surprising was less than 20% auto sales in Japan......would have expected USA levels of auto transmission there.......some of the worst traffic congestion in the world.

[Nacho-RT74]

which are the OD 833 ratios ? ( never though a manual transmision could be OD ? )

[Nacho-RT74]

Its a cultural thing I'm sure......but its funny that in your MASSIVE country where I'm sure its possible to not have to change gears for hours at a time....the vast majority of you drives autos (be in modern or classics)....and over here in overcrowded, traffic jammed Britain auto are still a relatively small (but growing) market. The majority of autos sold here are where you have no choice (Range Rover, most Mercs, most Jeeps etc etc). I'm sure the silly cost of fuel over here affects our choices too. Only ever owned two autos, an Audi A8 4.2 V8 and a Grand Cherokee....neither being built as a manual.

EDIT...A quick google tells me that the UK last year bought 25% of the sold cars as an auto (double what I would have guessed to be honest) and in Europe as a whole its just 20%.
          In the USA its 96% autos!! Much higher than I would have ever guessed. I guess there are just not as many REAL drivers over there.......hey go easy on me....only joking!
          Even more surprising was less than 20% auto sales in Japan......would have expected USA levels of auto transmission there.......some of the worst traffic congestion in the world.

I think pretty much is about the local gasoline prices, being you can't control the "mileage" or "kilometrage" on an auto like on a manual.

Being Venezuela got splitted market between Asian, European and Northamerica vehicles, we have same proportion from the manufacturers market. Maybe with MB exception where mostly have being auto instead manuals locally

[alfaitalia]

which are the OD 833 ratios ? ( never though a manual transmision could be OD ? )

If a ratio (usually four, fifth or sixth ) is less than. 1.0 (so 0.8, 0.76 etc) then its overdrive.....manual or auto.

[c00nhunterjoe]

From what i recall, 1-3 in the 833od are nearly identical to 1-3 in a 727. I would not run the od unless it is a low hp street only car. It will not live if you beat on it.

[Laowho]

It depends. The 23 spline 1st and our 3.23 rear gives us about 10. Our shift points are 20/45/65 on a mild 223/228 cam/906 heads/435 hp 440. His stronger Hemi 18 spline is geared differently. I like it cuz it hums where it should. We do hwy driving but it's perfect for town in between.

[c00nhunterjoe]

It depends. The 23 spline 1st and our 3.23 rear gives us about 10. Our shift points are 20/45/65 on a mild 223/228 cam/906 heads/435 hp 440. His stronger Hemi 18 spline is geared differently. I like it cuz it hums where it should. We do hwy driving but it's perfect for town in between.

That's a loaded statement. Lol. I drive the 63 max wedge at 50-55 with a 298 at .050 cam in it on 5.13 gears....  i too like it cause it hums where it should.  

https://youtu.be/EmFknw4UmDY

[John_Kunkel]

which are the OD 833 ratios ? ( never though a manual transmision could be OD ? )

1st= 3.09
2nd= 1.67
3rd= 1.00
4th= .73

As you can see there is a large ratio spread between 1 and 2. The OD 833 is achieved by swapping the internal positions of 3 and 4 (3-4 shift lever is turned upside down), 3rd is the old 4th position and 4th is in the old 3rd position on the main shaft.  

[Laowho]

And the Hemi 18 spline version comes in 2.65 and 2.44 ratios

https://www.passonperformance.com/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=369&category_id=32

[XH29N0G]

I used one of the aluminum a833 with a 3.23 for a few decades behind a 383.  It was fine for cruising on the highway and fine in the city, but it was by no means a performance transmission.  My engine was also not crazy so it was fine at 1500 rpm on the highway.  

I also used the shifter that came with it, which sat high and had a long throw.  SO there were good and bad things about it.  I enjoyed it.

About 6 years ago I swapped in a 5 speed OD.  I like the OD and the 5 speed makes the gears closer together so better.  I have never had an automatic, but wonder what that would be like for go.  I like shifting.  Mine went 3 speed, 4 speed overdrive, and now 5 speed - which I like best but was expensive which is why it took me almost 30 years to get.

[RCCDrew]

Its a cultural thing I'm sure......but its funny that in your MASSIVE country where I'm sure its possible to not have to change gears for hours at a time....the vast majority of you drives autos (be in modern or classics)....and over here in overcrowded, traffic jammed Britain auto are still a relatively small (but growing) market. The majority of autos sold here are where you have no choice (Range Rover, most Mercs, most Jeeps etc etc). I'm sure the silly cost of fuel over here affects our choices too. Only ever owned two autos, an Audi A8 4.2 V8 and a Grand Cherokee....neither being built as a manual.

EDIT...A quick google tells me that the UK last year bought 25% of the sold cars as an auto (double what I would have guessed to be honest) and in Europe as a whole its just 20%.
          In the USA its 96% autos!! Much higher than I would have ever guessed. I guess there are just not as many REAL drivers over there.......hey go easy on me....only joking!
          Even more surprising was less than 20% auto sales in Japan......would have expected USA levels of auto transmission there.......some of the worst traffic congestion in the world.

Maybe you have the REAL drivers, but automatic is the way of the future. Ferrari no longer offers a manual trans. Standard transmissions can't keep up with the lightning quick shifts of the modern transmission. Compare the A8 Hellcat to the M6. The standard hellcat can't touch the automatic in terms of performance.
But in the USA, a 4 speed IS a good theft deterrent.

[Laowho]

It depends. The 23 spline 1st and our 3.23 rear gives us about 10. Our shift points are 20/45/65 on a mild 223/228 cam/906 heads/435 hp 440. His stronger Hemi 18 spline is geared differently. I like it cuz it hums where it should. We do hwy driving but it's perfect for town in between.

That's a loaded statement. Lol. I drive the 63 max wedge at 50-55 with a 298 at .050 cam in it on 5.13 gears....  i too like it cause it hums where it should.  

https://youtu.be/EmFknw4UmDY

Yeah but the other day was the day I got that thing (accoustical resonance?) that went in my solar plexus and came out my perineum (almost). Probly helped (a lot) that the cabin is completely gutted. What a vibe. Thx 4 the video.

[alfaitalia]

Its a cultural thing I'm sure......but its funny that in your MASSIVE country where I'm sure its possible to not have to change gears for hours at a time....the vast majority of you drives autos (be in modern or classics)....and over here in overcrowded, traffic jammed Britain auto are still a relatively small (but growing) market. The majority of autos sold here are where you have no choice (Range Rover, most Mercs, most Jeeps etc etc). I'm sure the silly cost of fuel over here affects our choices too. Only ever owned two autos, an Audi A8 4.2 V8 and a Grand Cherokee....neither being built as a manual.

EDIT...A quick google tells me that the UK last year bought 25% of the sold cars as an auto (double what I would have guessed to be honest) and in Europe as a whole its just 20%.
          In the USA its 96% autos!! Much higher than I would have ever guessed. I guess there are just not as many REAL drivers over there.......hey go easy on me....only joking!
          Even more surprising was less than 20% auto sales in Japan......would have expected USA levels of auto transmission there.......some of the worst traffic congestion in the world.

Maybe you have the REAL drivers, but automatic is the way of the future. Ferrari no longer offers a manual trans. Standard transmissions can't keep up with the lightning quick shifts of the modern transmission. Compare the A8 Hellcat to the M6. The standard hellcat can't touch the automatic in terms of performance.
But in the USA, a 4 speed IS a good theft deterrent.

Lol...really? People don't even know how to drive a manual box car? Over here even if you drive an auto there is a 99% chance your passed your test in a stick car. If you do your test in an auto that's all you are allowed to drive. I only know one person with a auto only licence....and he only has one real leg! Hi Bob if you are reading this!

As far as high performance car transmissions are concerned...well they are not real autos....they are manuals with one or two electronic clutches....no torque converters in those.

[XH29N0G]

This manual discussion just happened at home. 

My wife has had to drive the 1981 BMW with 5 speed manual all week (and into next week) b/c her car is broken.  She came back this evening saying she is getting the hang of it and then says ... "First, makes RRRR sounds, second, more RRR sounds, third, more RRR sounds, stoplight.....Try second, try first, fail, retry second, retry first, test by crawling at stoplight, success..... and so on." 

She also said that she told her colleagues at work, and they all said they couldn't drive a manual......  That is when I said that some people here call it a theft deterrent device....My son had a friend whose bother was carjacked, kicked out of the car, and the carjackers only made it to the next stop sign and then abandoned the car.  So there is something to that.

I love manuals, even the two times when the clutch wouldn't disengage, just had to learn to shift by rev matching. 

Yes automatics are the future, but manuals are like Vikings chewing oats with gravel.

[RCCDrew]

Its a cultural thing I'm sure......but its funny that in your MASSIVE country where I'm sure its possible to not have to change gears for hours at a time....the vast majority of you drives autos (be in modern or classics)....and over here in overcrowded, traffic jammed Britain auto are still a relatively small (but growing) market. The majority of autos sold here are where you have no choice (Range Rover, most Mercs, most Jeeps etc etc). I'm sure the silly cost of fuel over here affects our choices too. Only ever owned two autos, an Audi A8 4.2 V8 and a Grand Cherokee....neither being built as a manual.

EDIT...A quick google tells me that the UK last year bought 25% of the sold cars as an auto (double what I would have guessed to be honest) and in Europe as a whole its just 20%.
          In the USA its 96% autos!! Much higher than I would have ever guessed. I guess there are just not as many REAL drivers over there.......hey go easy on me....only joking!
          Even more surprising was less than 20% auto sales in Japan......would have expected USA levels of auto transmission there.......some of the worst traffic congestion in the world.

Maybe you have the REAL drivers, but automatic is the way of the future. Ferrari no longer offers a manual trans. Standard transmissions can't keep up with the lightning quick shifts of the modern transmission. Compare the A8 Hellcat to the M6. The standard hellcat can't touch the automatic in terms of performance.
But in the USA, a 4 speed IS a good theft deterrent.

Lol...really? People don't even know how to drive a manual box car? Over here even if you drive an auto there is a 99% chance your passed your test in a stick car. If you do your test in an auto that's all you are allowed to drive. I only know one person with a auto only licence....and he only has one real leg! Hi Bob if you are reading this!

As far as high performance car transmissions are concerned...well they are not real autos....they are manuals with one or two electronic clutches....no torque converters in those.

Ooooookay. Well the quickest production car in the world (Demon) has a torque converter. But that's not a performance car trans I guess. And the Ferrari shifts itself, but that's not a real automatic. Got it.  

[alfaitalia]

Fair enough...but you knew what I was getting at........ The Demon is one of the few. I wonder if it would be quicker with one of the latest lightning fast twin clutchers? Hmmm. Nearly all of those type of transmissions CAN self shift rather than using the paddles....but who would want to do that? Lol.

[303 Mopar]

And the Hemi 18 spline version comes in 2.65 and 2.44 ratios
https://www.passonperformance.com/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=369&category_id=32

I have Jamie's 833 OD in my Cuda with a 392 Hemi and 3.55 gears and love it!  I currently have  Brewers 833 in my '68 Charger with a 505 stroker and 3.23 gears and love that too!  Both are Hemi 18 spline.  When (if) my name comes up for the Passon 855 5 spd, that will be going into the Charger and I'll swap gears to at least 3.73 if not 4.10.

IMO, I would rather DRIVE the car with a manual than just RIDE in it with an auto.

[pipeliner]

I first learned how to drive with a Standard but I don't want my personal vehicles as a standard. I couldn't imagine driving a muscle car with an Auto, so boring. 5 speeds were cool 20 years ago. It was time to step up so I got a 6-speed

[AZMoparboy]

We Gearheads all have different reasons for being in the car hobby. I only have two Chrysler Products, 1973 Charger, 440, with a 727, with 2.93's and 1971 Challenger 383, Fitech EFI, with 833OD,with 3.55's. Both are very nice drivers if I say so myself.  I've built these two cars to feel as if you have stepped back in time.  I will never have either one on the track as long as I have them. That's my car hobby, bringing these old cars back to life. As far as  automatic verses four speed, I like them both. For you and you hobby, you'll have to choose and if you don't like what you've built, you can change it again, it's all about you.

What ever you do I'm sure it will wonderful, I admire the passion that we gearheads have towards our cars. I'll be watching to see what you decide.

Good luck
Steve
Azmoparboy

[Kern Dog]

That 833 OD would have been a much better performance trans with a traditional 2.47 or  2.66 first gear.
I can drive manual trans cars but I don't like it as much. No, it is not a matter of skill either. I can drive as smooth as anyone. I've driven mostly mechanical clutch linkage cars so maybe something with smoother pedal action would probably sway me...

[Dino]

I first learned how to drive with a Standard but I don't want my personal vehicles as a standard. I couldn't imagine driving a muscle car with an Auto, so boring. 5 speeds were cool 20 years ago. It was time to step up so I got a 6-speed

I'm planning on stuffing a T56 in my 69. Any tips are welcome!   

[XH29N0G]

I first learned how to drive with a Standard but I don't want my personal vehicles as a standard. I couldn't imagine driving a muscle car with an Auto, so boring. 5 speeds were cool 20 years ago. It was time to step up so I got a 6-speed

I'm planning on stuffing a T56 in my 69. Any tips are welcome!  

Don't know about the T56, but will say that the shifter can make or break the fun with the manual and would do research into that if I did a swap.   Also keep an eye on fit with driveline angles.  I am pretty sure you know both of these already, but it doesn't hurt to put them in this thread.

[RCCDrew]

I wish I could mix and match A833 gearsets. 

[pipeliner]

I first learned how to drive with a Standard but I don't want my personal vehicles as a standard. I couldn't imagine driving a muscle car with an Auto, so boring. 5 speeds were cool 20 years ago. It was time to step up so I got a 6-speed

I'm planning on stuffing a T56 in my 69. Any tips are welcome!  

Don't know about the T56, but will say that the shifter can make or break the fun with the manual and would do research into that if I did a swap.   Also keep an eye on fit with driveline angles.  I am pretty sure you know both of these already, but it doesn't hurt to put them in this thread.

I broke down and bought the kit from SST. All of the driveline angles are suppose to be good and the shifter location is suppose to be right there on the 4-speed hump. Yeah I have to cut my tunnel but it's worth it in my opinion. I'm working 7 days a week so I hired a guy to do it for me. He's going to start on it as soon as I get my engine back form the dyno.

[XH29N0G]

I broke down and bought the kit from SST. All of the driveline angles are suppose to be good and the shifter location is suppose to be right there on the 4-speed hump. Yeah I have to cut my tunnel but it's worth it in my opinion. I'm working 7 days a week so I hired a guy to do it for me. He's going to start on it as soon as I get my engine back form the dyno.

I asked SST to help me correct my driveline angles by modifying the tailshaft on the 5 speed I had bought from another vendor.  They did a nice job with the transmission and also added a nice shifter.  I still needed to pay attention to the shift handle with mine - kept it shorter.  Most recently I put some slightly stiffer springs in the shifter and I like the way it works and feels.  They were good to work with and open to explaining/discussing questions I had.   

[pipeliner]

I have nothing but good things to say about SST so far. Glad they helped you out.