i got screwed on an alignment any diy help?

[Brightyellow69rtse]

long story short the car had some work done to it last winter and an alignment and it basicly sat till well today actually. so after driving a bit the tires were squeeling at low speed turns and i checked the air before i drove it so i knew that wasnt it. when i got home i did the tape measure trick on the front and rear of the front tires and it was 1 1/2" off!! it tore up my tires pretty good too the outside edges took a good hit.  so i after screwing with the ty rods i got it to 1/8" off from front to back. it no longer squeeks around corners and seems pretty good. the wheel is just a little off center now  towards the right.  if i let go of the wheel while driving it does eventually pull to the right.should i do anything else with it or just take it to a different alignment shop?

[holanae]

If taking it back to the shop and letting them know what has happened and show them the immediate tire wear is not an option, then take it to another shop.  Talk to car restoration shops in your local area; find out where they take their vehicles.  That's if you don't want to align it yourself. 

I've been burned multiple times by repair shops and local home contractors enough that I won't use anybody without a strong referral.  In my experience though, a person who had initially screwed me over has never made things right.  So it probably isn't worth your time to spend another breath with them.  Get a good referral, take it to their shop and explain to them what has happened.  They may give you a small discount to help you out.  I took my botched A/C repair to a 2nd shop and they fixed it at cost for parts and 50% labor.  Owner stated he wanted my business for the long term.

[HPP]

so i after screwing with the ty rods i got it to 1/8" off from front to back. it no longer squeeks around corners and seems pretty good. the wheel is just a little off center now  towards the right.  if i let go of the wheel while driving it does eventually pull to the right.should i do anything else with it or just take it to a different alignment shop?

Did you adjust both tie rods equally or simply turn one until you were 1/8"? Since the wheel is now off, it sounds like you turned one side more than another. Both sides need to be adjusted equally. If you ran out of threads on one or more ends, then you need to disassemble the tie rods and reset the ends thread depth and readjust toe.

If the shop botched the toe, which is the easiest adjustment of all, then odds are they did not even set caster or camber. Many new cars can only set toe, so inexperienced shops or techs will only set toe and put it out the door. If it pulls slowly right, then you most likely need a caster adjustment.

If you do take it to another shop, I'd request '05 Mustang specs. They won't be able to hit them, but they will be much better than stock. Mustang alignment is much more aggressive and will produce a better handling and improved road feel. Assuming two important things; you have power steering and radials.  If you have manual steering or bias ply tires, then stick with the stock Dodge specs.

[JR]

After becoming frustrated finding a competent shop, and also making constant front end changes I decided to buy the tools and learn to align front ends myself.

I bought this:



(Or you could buy this better version)



Along with this caster/camber gauge:



I made my own turn plates out of scrap hardwood floor.

And learned to do it myself.

It's a few hundred bucks for the equipment, but I can align it myself now anytime I want, or anytime I disassemble it to make a change.  One of the best things I took the time to learn.

I finally decided to learn it last year after installing some Moog offset UCA bushings. I went to the local shop that always has a bunch of (GM) hotrods out front, and asked about an alignment.

The owner told me, "Ballpark price is 100 bucks, but it could be a little more or less depending on how many shims it needs......"

Obviously, our cars don't use shims (as far as I know) and it was clear the guy didn't have much experience in Chrysler vehicles, so it seemed like a gamble. Why pay someone money to let them guess at your front end???

Its worthwhile to learn front end alignments. My tools paid for themselves after doing three vehicles.

There are a handful of tutorials on YouTube that cover how to do front end alignments. It's actually quite simple once you have the right tools, and a flat piece of concrete.

[Brightyellow69rtse]

thank you all for the replies. the shop i went to ive been going to for 20 years for stuff i cant do. some things happened and lets just say they ruined the relationship. i may go back just to tell them that they screwed it up but in reality nothing good is going to come of it.

good to know oin the 05 mustang specs. any idea what the difference is?

the ty rods are pretty close to the same but i didnt go nuts cuse i figured the caster and camber was off anyway.

im gonna look into those tools. if i can help it i try to stay outta the shop at all costs.

i found a guy i think would be good so hes gonna get a shot at it on thursday morning. ill report back with the results.

[HPP]

good to know oin the 05 mustang specs. any idea what the difference is?

I suggest it because many shops won't take custom specs and need a car to enter to create the target. The new mustangs use a lot more positive caster and negative camber than a classic. The shop won't be able to hit the mustang specs at all, but it gives them a target. Tell them to get it as close as possible and that is good enough.

Herein lies the rub with a mopar, caster and camber are interdependent due to the eccentrics. More of one compromises the ability to get the other and the height of the rear suspension can mess with both of them. IMO, the eccentric bolts are the one big flaw in an otherwise very great suspension design.

[JR]

Herein lies the rub with a mopar, caster and camber are interdependent due to the eccentrics. More of one compromises the ability to get the other and the height of the rear suspension can mess with both of them. IMO, the eccentric bolts are the one big flaw in an otherwise very great suspension design.

I am a BIG fan of SPC upper control arms because of this. (Pic borrowed from internet.)



They make caster/camber a BREEZE to adjust. While they are still interconnected of course, they make alignments so much easier to deal with. Up to 5 or 6 degrees of positive caster can be gained, with as much negative camber as you want. They make life much easier.

I actually use mine to dial in crazy amounts of negative camber for autocross weekends, then adjust it back to street settings when I get done. It literally takes a few minutes, and adjustments are quick and easy.  I love these things.

[c00nhunterjoe]

What state are you in? If its local, i can set it up.

[Brightyellow69rtse]

What state are you in? If its local, i can set it up.

im in connecticut just over the line from mass.

[Brightyellow69rtse]

ok guys i got it done today. they called with bad news though. he said he couldnt get it anywhere near what i wanted. i found a chart that was constantly referenced on alignments for these cars. i went with the high performance street settings. i asked him what i would have to do to remedy the issue and he said the upper control arm bushings might be shot or my car might not be straight anymore.  he said its decent and i dont have to try to change it if i dont want to. i havnt touched the suspension at all really and ive had the car 17 years so i think its time.

heres the sheet that i got from them.  oh i havent driven the car my father picked it up for me as i had to work.

any advise on this one boys?

[Brightyellow69rtse]

heres the chart i used for specs, i wanted the high performance/ street settings

[garner7555]

Adjustable upper control arms, like the ones JR suggested above, should fix most of your problems with the alignment.   First I would drive it and see how you like it.   If you want it to drive more like a modern performance car then I would add adjustable upper control arms, big sway bar, and sub-frame connectors.  Those 3 should give you a decent bang for the buck improvement.     

PS: those alignment specs that you are shooting for look pretty good to me.     

[Brightyellow69rtse]

Adjustable upper control arms, like the ones JR suggested above, should fix most of your problems with the alignment.   First I would drive it and see how you like it.   If you want it to drive more like a modern performance car then I would add adjustable upper control arms, big sway bar, and sub-frame connectors.  Those 3 should give you a decent bang for the buck improvement.     

PS: those alignment specs that you are shooting for look pretty good to me.     

you know ive had weld in subframe connectors kicking around my house i bought 10 years ago i bet haha.  i also went with a firmfeel steering box. i went with the firmest one they do. its like driving a completly different car that steering is so different.    any reccomendations on a sway bar or shocks?

i really gotta do a disc brake conversion cuse my brakes are pretty crappy but i wanna keep my 15" wheels so i think my choices are limited.....

[HPP]

Yea, your toe setting before was pretty jacked, -.5 one side +.6 other side.

Drive it, see how you like it. It will be better, but the shop left performance on the table. I wonder if they even tried to hit the specs you  gave them as those look like the OEM settings. Worst case, they should have been able to get -.25 camber and +2 caster. Use offset bushings or aftermarket control arms and you'll be able to hit the desired numbers.

[Brightyellow69rtse]

he said they really tried but thats the best he could do. so who knows. i think i might get the spc adjustable ones. i wanna buy disc brakes too so i gotta figure out what im doing.

[garner7555]

The choices are fairly broad on sway bars and shocks.   
Personally I think bigger is better for a sway bar.  If you want a great name brand and money isn't that important then Hotchkis is great.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-2255f/overview/year/1969/make/dodge/model/charger

There are some cheaper options as well like this Hellwig.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hel-55903/overview/year/1969/make/dodge/model/charger

Shocks are a big question, and it all depends on how much you want to spend.  I think Fox are some great shocks, but very pricey.  Bilstien is hard to beat for the price from what I hear, really good shock for a street car.   

As far as brakes go, I put 14" Brembos on my car but you for sure can't fit 15"s over those.       I'm really not sure what is best that will fit under 15"s?   

[Brightyellow69rtse]

my car has a factory sway bar would a new one be much of an improvement?

id love big brakes but i like a good size sidewall on these cars personally and i love my wheels.  it just looks funny next to my challenger with 20s on it lol.

[Kern Dog]

Are you asking about an aftermarket sway bar?
If so, YES, an aftermarket bar would be an improvement, mostly because every aftermarket bar is NEW metal in a larger diameter than the stock one.
When these cars sere new, all of the components were designed to match each other, sort of like how an engines compression ratio and camshaft needs the proper matched carburetor and exhaust system.
Back then, tire science was pretty rudimentary. The cars had skinny tires as well so the torsion bars, sway bars and shocks were also small/lighter duty. Add wide tires that really grip and the other components need to be upgraded to utilize the potential of the tires.
A decent recipe for good street handling :
1.0 or larger torsion bars.
1.25 front sway bar.
.75 rear sway bar.
Bilstein shocks.
Welded subframe connectors.
245 series tires or wider. NO aspect ratios taller than a 60 series!

[garner7555]

Are you asking about an aftermarket sway bar?
If so, YES, an aftermarket bar would be an improvement, mostly because every aftermarket bar is NEW metal in a larger diameter than the stock one.
When these cars sere new, all of the components were designed to match each other, sort of like how an engines compression ratio and camshaft needs the proper matched carburetor and exhaust system.
Back then, tire science was pretty rudimentary. The cars had skinny tires as well so the torsion bars, sway bars and shocks were also small/lighter duty. Add wide tires that really grip and the other components need to be upgraded to utilize the potential of the tires.
A decent recipe for good street handling :
1.0 or larger torsion bars.
1.25 front sway bar.  or larger
.75 rear sway bar.
Bilstein shocks.
Welded subframe connectors.
245 series tires or wider. NO aspect ratios taller than a 60 series!

Well said Kern Dog, I did add what might have been obvious, larger than 1.25" front sway bar would be good too.   The bigger the better on the front sway bar.    

[Kern Dog]

Okay, but going too big in the front can result in MORE understeer even though body roll is reduced. It is a case where balance really matters. Imagine this: The end of the car with the highest roll resistance will lose grip first. In other words, the stiffest end loses grip first. There are many ways to get there too. You can have HUGE torsion bars and a small sway bar and the combined effective spring rate will be similar to having moderate torsion bars and a sway bar the thickness of  bratwurst!
I had a set of ADDCO sway bars on my car for awhile. 1&1/8" front, 7/8" rear.  The car laid flat but the tail end often felt loose and wanted to come around. I like oversteer on demand, NOT all the time so I went to a smaller rear bar to reduce the rear spring rate and to bigger torsion bars and a 1 1/4" front sway bar to stiffen/raise the front spring rate. This resulted in a condition where the car has some initial slight UNDERsteer, a neutral condition at most times but will transition to oversteer with throttle application as needed. It handles great and is very predictable now.

[garner7555]

Yes, I actually would go large in the front and the rear, but what you are saying is 100% correct ( and great job explaining).        Since the OP has 15" wheels you may have a better solution for him Kern Dog, because his tires are going to loose grip fairly easy anyway most likely (compared to 17" or larger performance tires).  It is probably overkill to go with the really large sway bars, but I would definitely upgrade the original to atleast a 1 1/8" or 1 1/4".