I've been MSD'd

[flyinlow]

Waiting in line to get into the Nats for 40 minutes this morning. Finally up to the gate when the car shuts off. Cranks but won't restart. Not overheated, engine normal temp. Some guys helped pushed me thru the gate and out of the way ,while I was muttering choice thoughts about Fitechs Fuel command center. Apology's to Fitech. My 3-4 year old  MSD digital 6AL died. Mancini Racing guys where very helpful, they had a number for MSD tech. Trouble shoot to a bad box (msd 6425) Luckily Mancini Racing had one in stock and got running again.

The box was shock mounted on the firewall and I took care to run the wiring according to instruction's. I have ceramic headers and I did put a piece of heat reflective insulation on the bottom side .

Too rugged a condition for MSD equipment? Same place I had my Street Fire for years.

[Troy]

Last time I got stuck at the Nats like that I hadn't made it to the gate! I spent an entire day of the show at the gas station across the street. Sucks about the MSD as that's my fall back plan and/or configuration for whatever car runs next.

Troy

[justcruisin]

Normally reliable, things I would check are plug gaps, HT lead resistance, voltage to the controller, earth, coil resistance and overall condition of the cap/rotor. Anything that will make the controller work hard really. Could be just plain old bad luck.

[PRH]

In general, I'm not really a big fan of "digital" ignition boxes, although its nearly impossible to buy something new thats still analog.

Fortunately, I have a new analog 6a box, and one I sent back to get fixed as a spare.

For a true street car, it's kind of hard to argue with something like a Mopar based box...... Since they're small(easy to carry a spare), and they're very easy to swap out on the side of the road.

If I didn't have my 6a boxes, I'd probably be looking into a rev-a-nator, with a std box as my glove box spare.

I also don't like to have the aftermarket msd type boxes mounted in hot areas, like the firewall.

I ran the digital 6 box for a few years, had no issues with it for a couple years, then the rev limiter started kicking in at erroneous rpm's.
I couldn't duplicate the situation with the msd tester...... And in the end I felt like I was getting some sort of voltage or RF anomaly coming from the Moroso electric water pump drive motor...... But never really knew for sure what it was.

[JR]

Back when I had the 6AL box, I preferred to mount it inside the car. Less heat/vibrations/chemicals for the electronics to deal with.

I really don't like mounting electronics in a hot engine bay when I don't have to.

Of course, sometimes you can hear the clicking sound the box makes, but the last box I had lasted 12 years until I finally removed it to run the FItech ignition control. Still worked fine when I removed it.

Heat is KILLER for electronics.

[Bronzedodge]

Normally reliable, things I would check are plug gaps, HT lead resistance, voltage to the controller, earth, coil resistance and overall condition of the cap/rotor. Anything that will make the controller work hard really. Could be just plain old bad luck.

That is good advice.  I bought a Duster once, had an MSD, cracked plug wires and worn plugs.  I had bought the tune up kit and the MSD died before I could put it all together.   

[flyinlow]

Think I will move it inside.

Stock Mopar box lived under the hood for 40 years.   

What About my Fitech ECU it must to live under toe hood?

[PRH]

Think I will move it inside.

Stock Mopar box lived under the hood for 40 years.   

I think the oem designed parts are generally more bullitproof........although they don't always offer the same performance or features as what is available in the aftermarket.

You said you ran the street fire box before with no problems......also an msd product.

I think moving the box into the cabin is a good call.

[flyinlow]

Called MSD and got a repair number. I asked about moving inside and the Tech said it was designed to be in the engine bay and would get more air circulation there, . I don' t know how much heat the unit makes itself.
The specks say about one amp (14 watts) per 1000rpm. It had been running 800rpm for 40 minutes when it failed. I would think the engine/radiator/header heat would be much worse than that? I have run it on much hotter days with no problems. I will see what the report on the failed unit says. The box was made 8/2013 that was around the time MSD was going thru financial problems.

[cdr]

keep us posted, no way sitting in traffic is it getting any cooling under the hood, just hot air blowing on it, at least inside the car it would not have 150ish or higher air blowing on it. 

[Nacho-RT74]

I can't believe regular engine bay temperature will damage up to death an MSD ( or any other ) ECU. It can be healthy to run cooler and yes, maybe inside the cab is better, but we are talking about an ENGINE piece designed to be on ENGINE bay. So I laugh about those advices being as a demand and not as an option.

If so, all modern cars ignition system will be beated up by the engine bay heat.

I simply wouldn't oversize the problem... the box came to time to die for whatever reason, like you can get a flu for whatever reason and your wife not!

[Ghoste]

It was good to talk to you there btw, even if your car was stranded by the gate. (it takes away from the enjoyment of the day for sure)

[flyinlow]

It was good to talk to you there btw, even if your car was stranded by the gate. (it takes away from the enjoyment of the day for sure)

Thanks , enjoyed talking to you .

The car was easy to fix , once I got headed in the right direction. It was more embarrassing than anything, having your car die right in front of the Mopar World. 

I had a good time after that   

[Nacho-RT74]

It was to be worst in front of an ALL BRANDS show with lot of Chebby guys looking at! LOL

[flyinlow]

It was to be worst in front of an ALL BRANDS show with lot of Chebby guys looking at! LOL

Yea, I thought about AAA or calling my Son and seeing if he could bring my trailer over. Couple buddies have trailers  , but they are Chevy guys and there would be a picture of my car being winched onto the trailer on the internet before the day was over.
It was a 200 meter walk to Mancini's . They where very helpful and had the part I needed. Much better to bring the car home under it's own power.

[Nacho-RT74]

It was a 200 meter walk to Mancini's . They where very helpful and had the part I needed. Much better to bring the car home under it's own power.

Off topic

I think is the first time I read somebody here speaking in meters by himself!!

[68CoronetRT]

MSD. Mysterious Spark Disappearance.   

[JR]

Called MSD and got a repair number. I asked about moving inside and the Tech said it was designed to be in the engine bay and would get more air circulation there, .

I wouldnt install it under a seat, on top of carpet, that's a bit much.

But under a dashboard, no problem.

I've been working on reducing underhood temps for the last year or so, and with a lab thermometer probe I found that underhood temps (with stock uncoated manifolds) can reach as high as 125- 150 degrees when driving, 170-185 in stop and go traffic, and around 200 or so immediately after shutoff while heat soaking.
(Ceramic coated headers greatly reduced these numbers.)

The MSD would probably be fine underhood. (And there's thousands working there fine now I'm sure.) But given a choice, why subject electronics to such a hot environment if you don't have to?

Heat and vibration are the big killers of electronic equipment. Eliminating exposure to them when possible are definitely beneficial.

As for the FItech ecu being underhood, I really don't think there's much that can be done there, other than reducing underhood temps as much as possible.

Personally, my next plans include a fiberglass hood with a sealed hoodscoop and vent holes cut in the surface, along with water methanol injection. All in an effort to further reduce underhood temps.

[flyinlow]

I am thinking about under the glove box. Before I shipped the failed unit back I tried it under the dash. I can make a simple bracket the will let just enough of the box show to see the LED light and have access to the rev limiter if I need to. About 4-5 centimeters would show (Nacho).

I have  a new tank with an in tank pump finished and ready to install. I will be using a return system after the new tank is installed. I hope this will keep the Fitech throttle body and ECU cooler. I originally went with the Street Fire Ignition to get the rev limiter. With the Fitech I could let it run the ignition and take the MSD out all together. I will wait and see what MSD says about the failed one.

MSD. Mysterious Spark Disappearance.   

[Nacho-RT74]

MSD. Mysterious Spark Disappearance.   

Toooooooo GOOD LOL
 

[firefighter3931]

Over the years I've had 3 MSD boxes and all were mounted inside the car on the heater box. Never one failure with any of them and they were all analog boxes. Two were the 6A and the current box is a 6AL. I'm not a fan of the digital stuff....witnessed too many others with "gremlins" so I just keep it simple. 


Ron

[flyinlow]

Got the MSD box back. No info just the repair receipt. I called them with the repair number and the tech said possible feed back or voltage spike   They replaced a diode and 4 resistors. They recommended checking wiring and coil resistance. 0.7 ohms primary and 4500 ohms secondary for the Blaster coil.  My Blaster 3 has 0.8 and 5300 . Close but not exactly to spec. THE old Blaster 2 coil I have tests  0.7 and 4500 ohms
Still plan on moving the box in the cabin.

On a some what related matter I have been busy fabricating an in tank pump set up with return replacing the Fuel Command Center (done). Hope this will help keep the EFI controller cooler by circulating fuel thru the throttle body. The fuel pump is now relay controlled so the 10 amps or so of power comes from the battery buss and not thru the EFI ECU reducing heat. The ECU still controls the fuel pump relay but that is a small power requirement.

[Ghoste]

What did they charge you for the repair?

[flyinlow]

What did they charge you for the repair?

$65 with shipping

[Ghoste]

I guess that part could have been much worse.  Hard to put a price on the anguish that day when the car was stalled by the gate.

[krops cars]

I had to replace 2 of them for a guy. I double checked grounds and wiring. All good. I had to buy a Fire Core distributor for my engine. I went with Edelbrock performer rpm heads and an MSD would not fit. I feel these people really take pride in there products.