A good problem to have

[Dreamcar]

My plan has always been to have the original 383 block from my car rebuilt with some performance upgrades, then change gearing (3.73 or more) and buy a Gear Vendors OD unit (an extra $3.5K) to lower the rpms on the highway. The 383 engine block is currently torn down bare and needs absolutely everything. I'm in no rush because the body is still under resto. I did buy the car because it still has its original drivetrain.

I started some preliminary discussions with engine builders in order to plan a budget and today I was presented with an enticing offer...

I can get a freshly built and upgraded 440 pumping out over +450hp and +500ft/lbs for no more than the cost of the 383 rebuild with some upgrades. It would cost even more to try and get the 383 to match that 440 in power. Plus, in the builders opinion, there's enough torque in this 440 that the car will feel great off the line and there would be no need for the expensive gear vendors OD because I could stick with 3.23s for respectable highway RPMs (online calculators are giving me around 2800rpm at 70mph). I would just have to keep the original 383 block to the side for safe keeping and avoid a catastrophe by trying to do too much with the original block.   

As I write this, I'm leaning towards just getting that 440 and sticking with 3.23s without the OD. The cost/benefit just seems better. But, I'd still like to get some opinions from DC.com members

[JR]

I'm not an engine guy, but I can offer up my experience with a 440/727/3.23 combo.

At 70 mph cruise, (with 3.23s) my car turned around 2900-3000 rpm. Probably comparable to a 3.73 with the .78 reduction that gear vendors offers.

(I currently have 2.96s installed and that dropped it down to 27-2800 rpm.)

Off the line acceleration is totally fine unless your drag racing it. Big block torque will move you along easily.

Don't bother entering any 1/8th mile drag races, however. That's just too much weight and too little gear to be very fast there.

The 440 doesn't seem to mind substaining those rpms. Most of my driving is highway and interstate cruising, and the 440 will happily run at 3000 rpm all day long.

[Dreamcar]

I'm not an engine guy, but I can offer up my experience with a 440/727/3.23 combo.

At 70 mph cruise, (with 3.23s) my car turned around 2900-3000 rpm. Probably comparable to a 3.73 with the .78 reduction that gear vendors offers.

(I currently have 2.96s installed and that dropped it down to 27-2800 rpm.)

Off the line acceleration is totally fine unless your drag racing it. Big block torque will move you along easily.

Don't bother entering any 1/8th mile drag races, however. That's just too much weight and too little gear to be very fast there.

The 440 doesn't seem to mind substaining those rpms. Most of my driving is highway and interstate cruising, and the 440 will happily run at 3000 rpm all day long.

Thanks for the info. What's your rear tire size? The rpm I'm calculating is based on my projected tire size of about 27.5 inches.

[JR]

275 40 17 on a 9.5 inch wide wheel.

A quick look with a measuring tape puts them between 24.75 to 25 inches in diameter.

Youll turn less rpm with the taller tire, so I think your estimates are right on the money.

[crj1968]

A good resource

https://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

Ignore the crap at the top of the page....just scroll down and punch in tire sizes......   

[DAY CLONA]

IMHO any respectable Charger is going to have a 440 as minimum motivation, you'd be throwing money away on the 383, have you considered a crate motor from the likes of CME (Carolina Machine Engines)? or others offing comparable packages, you'd be surprised at the pricing, often more affordable than a local builder, along with dyno break in/results

[moparnut]

Disagree  with the last post.The 383 hp is 335 horse from the factory,the 440 is 370 horse.This seems like respectable numbers .For you to say that the 383 has no motivation,you have been reading to many magazines. moparnut

[Laowho]

We just did the swap from 727 and 3.23 rear to the .8 OD. All I can say is that dropping into OD on the interstate (from where we were previously) is a game-changer if you do any real hwy driving, wh/ is about all we do. Even converted the wheels and tires over and gave up an inch in tire height. If your options are only either a 383/OD and a 440 w/o OD, I'm guessing you'll soon move over to a 440 w/ OD.

[Dreamcar]

We just did the swap from 727 and 3.23 rear to the .8 OD. All I can say is that dropping into OD on the interstate (from where we were previously) is a game-changer if you do any real hwy driving, wh/ is about all we do. Even converted the wheels and tires over and gave up an inch in tire height. If your options are only either a 383/OD and a 440 w/o OD, I'm guessing you'll soon move over to a 440 w/ OD.

What type of OD are you running?Getting an Gear Vendors installed up here in Canada is going to cost me almost 4k by the time I'm done with shipping and the exchange, which is creating part of the motivation for going with big torque (440) and 3.23s.

[Troy]

If you spend any time at all in the engine area of our tech section you'll see comments along the lines of "a 440 doesn't cost any more to build than a 383" and "a stroker doesn't cost any more to build than a stock engine". If you think about it, the labor involved is about the same for any 8 cylinder engine. Obviously, you could save money by reusing a crank and rods - although reconditioning rods these days seems to cost almost as much as new ones. Rebuilding stock iron heads isn't really financially prudent with the availability of inexpensive aluminum heads. The biggest expense then for a 440 (that you don't currently have) is finding a block. In the end, if you spend a similar amount, whatever has the most cubic inches will probably make you the happiest on the street. Lots of low end torque is the key! You don't need to build a $15k "race" motor to really have a lot of fun stoplight to stoplight.

I have 3.23 gears, 28" tires, and a 4-speed behind my 440 and it doesn't seem to have any issues cruising in the mid-70s. I have a Passon 4-speed OD for another car and I'll step up the rear gears a little. I had 2.76 gears behind my previous Charger but it was an automatic. Cruising was great, accelerating was so-so. If I had 100 ft/lbs more torque I doubt I would have noticed.

The 383 will likely be able to rev a bit higher so the need for an OD isn't as great. Especially if you go with taller rear tires.

Troy

[Sublime/Sixpack]

It really depends on what you want. If originality is important to you I suggest you go with the original 383. Contrary to what some think the 383 is no slouch.
If the 440 is what you want, if built right you'll not need the Gear Vendor's. You could take the money you would have spent on the overdrive and do a stock rebuild on the 383 so it's complete, then keep it so you have the original engine for the car.
That's what I did with my '69 383 Super Bee. Pulled the number's matching 383 and put in a 440 with Six Pack and run 3.23 gears in the rear end. I did a stock rebuild on the 383 and keep it in the shop. Every now and then I put it in the run-in stand, fire it up and let run it.

[Dreamcar]

It really depends on what you want. If originality is important to you I suggest you go with the original 383. Contrary to what some think the 383 is no slouch.
If the 440 is what you want, if built right you'll not need the Gear Vendor's. You could take the money you would have spent on the overdrive and do a stock rebuild on the 383 so it's complete, then keep it so you have the original engine for the car.
That's what I did with my '69 383 Super Bee. Pulled the number's matching 383 and put in a 440 with Six Pack and run 3.23 gears in the rear end. I did a stock rebuild on the 383 and keep it in the shop. Every now and then I put it in the run-in stand, fire it up and let run it.

Yeah the more I think of it, the more I'm almost sure I'll enjoy the 440 and keep the 383 on the side for later. I'll have all the power I want without spending more money and without worry because the original block will be safe in the garage.

[Scaregrabber]

The good running 440 with 3.23 is still a terrific all around combo. 13.0's are easy to achieve and the setup works nicely on the highway too. Hard to beat bang for buck.

Sheldon

[chapel40]

Still wondering if the B and RB engine mounts are the same. Is the 440 a straight drop in when removing a 383 as far as engine mounts?

[Bronzedodge]

Still wondering if the B and RB engine mounts are the same. Is the 440 a straight drop in when removing a 383 as far as engine mounts?

Yes.  The taller deck height of the 440 will require slight exhaust alterations.

[Laowho]

We just did the swap from 727 and 3.23 rear to the .8 OD. All I can say is that dropping into OD on the interstate (from where we were previously) is a game-changer if you do any real hwy driving, wh/ is about all we do. Even converted the wheels and tires over and gave up an inch in tire height. If your options are only either a 383/OD and a 440 w/o OD, I'm guessing you'll soon move over to a 440 w/ OD.

What type of OD are you running?Getting an Gear Vendors installed up here in Canada is going to cost me almost 4k by the time I'm done with shipping and the exchange, which is creating part of the motivation for going with big torque (440) and 3.23s.

It's a Passon 4 speed OD, aka the revamped a833. Comes in two strengths and gear sets depending on your engine and use. But I knew we were getting it before we found the car, if only b/c finding an affordable 4-speed was gonna be arduous. We had him install it as he's only 2 hours away. Now even tho I knew I needed 4-speed, I really couldn't appreciate the need for OD til after a year of interstate driving, specially since mid-70s here in NJ/PA isn't adequate for the right lane. And I wanted to really feel the difference, so had him install our sub frame connectors and torque boxes. Drove away in a different car, and what I remember these old muscle cars as being. Dropping into OD on the interstate at 80 is pretty cool, and let's be honest--these cars like to go straight fast. All depends what the "dream" in your dream car is...just trying to warn you that the OD thing may not go away if you're already anticipating it. You'll feel it every time you drive. (Total cost was about $5k for a full swap and install.)   

[Dreamcar]

We just did the swap from 727 and 3.23 rear to the .8 OD. All I can say is that dropping into OD on the interstate (from where we were previously) is a game-changer if you do any real hwy driving, wh/ is about all we do. Even converted the wheels and tires over and gave up an inch in tire height. If your options are only either a 383/OD and a 440 w/o OD, I'm guessing you'll soon move over to a 440 w/ OD.

What type of OD are you running?Getting an Gear Vendors installed up here in Canada is going to cost me almost 4k by the time I'm done with shipping and the exchange, which is creating part of the motivation for going with big torque (440) and 3.23s.

It's a Passon 4 speed OD, aka the revamped a833. Comes in two strengths and gear sets depending on your engine and use. But I knew we were getting it before we found the car, if only b/c finding an affordable 4-speed was gonna be arduous. We had him install it as he's only 2 hours away. Now even tho I knew I needed 4-speed, I really couldn't appreciate the need for OD til after a year of interstate driving, specially since mid-70s here in NJ/PA isn't adequate for the right lane. And I wanted to really feel the difference, so had him install our sub frame connectors and torque boxes. Drove away in a different car, and what I remember these old muscle cars as being. Dropping into OD on the interstate at 80 is pretty cool, and let's be honest--these cars like to go straight fast. All depends what the "dream" in your dream car is...just trying to warn you that the OD thing may not go away if you're already anticipating it. You'll feel it every time you drive. (Total cost was about $5k for a full swap and install.)   

Thanks for the info!