Over-filled AC solution.

[lloyd3]

On an old Ford PU, one can wasn't enough, two was too-much. Drain excess from high side or low side?

[cdr]

witch ever one does not blow oil out will work.

[lloyd3]

Appreciate that. Very little online about it that is actually useful. Most resembles disinformation.

[Dino]

Might want a shop to capture that crap instead of releasing it in the air. But that's just me.

[lloyd3]

Post 1993 it became 134a (replaced the "evil" R-12). The newer stuff isn't quite as toxic, but it also doesn't work as well. Unless you admit to releasing it, being charged for such a  "crime" is impossible. Big Brother at work yet again.  Much like the science of  anthropogenic climate change, it has many critics.

[alfaitalia]

Over here I would not be doing it. £25000 (about £32500!) fine and up to five years in prison!! Its highly ozone depleting.

Not to mention you will never do a proper job without the right (expensive) equipment. The machine safely pulls out all the old stuff. Then it vacuum tests the system for a few minutes.....then pressure tests it with an inert gas for a few more minutes. Then finally refills with the correct oil/r134a gas in the correct ratio as far as pressure and weight is concerned. Lets see you get all that done with a can from the parts shop!! Only cost me £40 with a local guy to my work. Not worth the risk to save next to nothing. I know folks who have damaged there systems by over filling them.......

[Dino]

Post 1993 it became 134a (replaced the "evil" R-12). The newer stuff isn't quite as toxic, but it also doesn't work as well. Unless you admit to releasing it, being charged for such a  "crime" is impossible. Big Brother at work yet again.  Much like the science of  anthropogenic climate change, it has many critics.

It's not about big brother, it's about doing the right thing. Uneducated critics do not influence my actions.

[cdr]

LMFAO

[DAY CLONA]

LMFAO

Same here, I just didn't want to be the first to admit it...   green hating applies to more than just green coloured cars

[Tilar]

They should pay you to reclaim Freon.... after all they just resell it to the next guy.

[moparstuart]

there is still R12 in my 68 and thats what going back in it

[cdr]

LMFAO

Same here, I just didn't want to be the first to admit it...   green hating applies to more than just green coloured cars

                                                     I do like Watermelon green   

[BDF]

LMFAO

Same here, I just didn't want to be the first to admit it...   green hating applies to more than just green coloured cars

[alfaitalia]

there is still R12 in my 68 and thats what going back in it

Cant buy it in the UK....banned. Not been used in any new car since 1992. R134a can be good but needs to be in a system designed for it.....both my other cars are ice cold on it. However if you want a direct R12 replacement its R437 or R437a (Isceon® MO49Plus™). This is the most up to date replacement for R12 (and supercedes RS24 / R426a).

[moparstuart]

there is still R12 in my 68 and thats what going back in it

Cant buy it in the UK....banned. Not been used in any new car since 1992. R134a can be good but needs to be in a system designed for it.....both my other cars are ice cold on it. However if you want a direct R12 replacement its R437 or R437a (Isceon® MO49Plus™). This is the most up to date replacement for R12 (and supercedes RS24 / R426a).

have a buddy with a few cases of the stuff 

[John_Kunkel]

It's not about big brother, it's about doing the right thing.

Sorry, but if you're worried about doing the "right thing" you'd be scrapping that gas-guzzling/polluting muscle car.

A half-pound of refrigerant discharged to the air is less harmful than 100 mile drive in a sixties/seventies car.

[Tilar]

have a buddy with a few cases of the stuff 

I still have just over a case left... Saving it for my 68.

[lloyd3]

I have two degrees (geology and engineering) and I worked for over 20-years as a consultant for the USEPA and many other government (as well as private) agencies.  I'd like to think that my opinion is an educated one.  The science behind most (if not all) EPA regulations these days is at best, suspect.  The political component of any new regulation gets far-more consideration than any actual science behind it.  Good science and government has had very little to do with each other for a very long time now. Where R-134a falls in the spectrum of pollutants is a bit unclear to me at this point, but.... I'm fairly certain that any I might inadvertently vent into Mother Earth's atmosphere isn't going to make much difference.  And...please don't make me get my soapbox out on "Climate Change" because I certainly wouldn't be driving my nearly 50-year old car around if I bought any of that clearly-specious bilge.

The solution to pollution is usually dilution. Remember that.

As far as the argument goes for having an AC system professionally serviced goes, I could be talked into that one.  Having the right equipment to do the job is usually the better way to go.  When you're in the middle of nowhere and your AC goes out, then... you do the best you can to get it going again and the "regulations..." can hang.

[cdr]

 

[alfaitalia]

I have two degrees (geology and engineering) and I worked for over 20-years as a consultant for the USEPA and many other government (as well as private) agencies.  I'd like to think that my opinion is an educated one.  The science behind most (if not all) EPA regulations these days is at best, suspect.  The political component of any new regulation gets far-more consideration than any actual science behind it.  Good science and government has had very little to do with each other for a very long time now. Where R-134a falls in the spectrum of pollutants is a bit unclear to me at this point, but.... I'm fairly certain that any I might inadvertently vent into Mother Earth's atmosphere isn't going to make much difference.  And...please don't make me get my soapbox out on "Climate Change" because I certainly wouldn't be driving my nearly 50-year old car around if I bought any of that clearly-specious bilge.

The solution to pollution is usually dilution. Remember that.

As far as the argument goes for having an AC system professionally serviced goes, I could be talked into that one.  Having the right equipment to do the job is usually the better way to go.  When you're in the middle of nowhere and your AC goes out, then... you do the best you can to get it going again and the "regulations..." can hang.

I don't pay much attention to it.....but climate change is clearly not "specious bilge".....its very real, happening and backed up with some pretty indisputable science.....much as it pains me to admit as I've always been sceptical. So climate change is happening.....what is debatable IMO is how much of it is due to mans influence.....much more difficult to prove. We certainly have an effect but how much? In our news today was a massive bombshell to petrol heads like me. After 2040 there will be no more new petrol and diesel powered vehicles sold in the UK! We will be one of the first countries to be full electric.....not too difficult for us as we already have most of the infrastructure due to quite high voluntary electric car use. Only thing is I can see is that we still generate a lot of our power from coal and gas powered stations....so it will be just moving the pollution from one place to another. However we are at nearly 50% renewable power now with windfarms springing up everywhere so it might work. US folks have always be doubters when it comes to climate change....not helped by having some of the cheapest fuel in the industrialised world. If fuel was as expensive over there as it is in Europe car choice would be very different there. A V8 engine or one over 3 litres is quite a rare site here already.

[cdr]

I have two degrees (geology and engineering) and I worked for over 20-years as a consultant for the USEPA and many other government (as well as private) agencies.  I'd like to think that my opinion is an educated one.  The science behind most (if not all) EPA regulations these days is at best, suspect.  The political component of any new regulation gets far-more consideration than any actual science behind it.  Good science and government has had very little to do with each other for a very long time now. Where R-134a falls in the spectrum of pollutants is a bit unclear to me at this point, but.... I'm fairly certain that any I might inadvertently vent into Mother Earth's atmosphere isn't going to make much difference.  And...please don't make me get my soapbox out on "Climate Change" because I certainly wouldn't be driving my nearly 50-year old car around if I bought any of that clearly-specious bilge.

The solution to pollution is usually dilution. Remember that.

As far as the argument goes for having an AC system professionally serviced goes, I could be talked into that one.  Having the right equipment to do the job is usually the better way to go.  When you're in the middle of nowhere and your AC goes out, then... you do the best you can to get it going again and the "regulations..." can hang.

I don't pay much attention to it.....but climate change is clearly not "specious bilge".....its very real, happening and backed up with some pretty indisputable science.....much as it pains me to admit as I've always been sceptical. So climate change is happening.....what is debatable IMO is how much of it is due to mans influence.....much more difficult to prove. We certainly have an effect but how much? In our news today was a massive bombshell to petrol heads like me. After 2040 there will be no more new petrol and diesel powered vehicles sold in the UK! We will be one of the first countries to be full electric.....not too difficult for us as we already have most of the infrastructure due to quite high voluntary electric car use. Only thing is I can see is that we still generate a lot of our power from coal and gas powered stations....so it will be just moving the pollution from one place to another. However we are at nearly 50% renewable power now with windfarms springing up everywhere so it might work. US folks have always be doubters when it comes to climate change....not helped by having some of the cheapest fuel in the industrialised world. If fuel was as expensive over there as it is in Europe car choice would be very different there. A V8 engine or one over 3 litres is quite a rare site here already.

See what they did, it used to be called Global Warming, NAME CHANGE,,Climate Change,, LOL  climate change is a constant, NO SHIT, always has been,always will be.

[alfaitalia]

True...but it's happening fast faster than ever before. Don't forget this planet was hot and uninhabitable millions of years ago due to the carbon (monoxide and dioxide) in the atmosphere.. then the plants grew and absorbed the carbon to be buried for millions of years. Now we dig it back up and burn it in the form of coal and oil..releasing all that previously trapped carbon. Does not take a genius to realise that it's not exactly going to improve the atmosphere.

That being said I recon my car will get 8-10 mpg and I'm expecting a panda to die each time I start it. I will worry about it when the Chinese don't build a power station every few hours and you guys pay a realistic price for your gas.....and do your part in protecting our planet.....lol ! But I won't blindly say the climate change is a lie to justify my choice of vehicle!

[cdr]

   

True...but it's happening fast faster than ever before. Don't forget this planet was hot and uninhabitable millions of years ago due to the carbon (monoxide and dioxide) in the atmosphere.. then the plants grew and absorbed the carbon to be buried for millions of years. Now we dig it back up and burn it in the form of coal and oil..releasing all that previously trapped carbon. Does not take a genius to realise that it's not exactly going to improve the atmosphere.

That being said I recon my car will get 8-10 mpg and I'm expecting a panda to die each time I start it. I will worry about it when the Chinese don't build a power station every few hours and you guys pay a realistic price for your gas.....and do your part in protecting our planet.....lol ! But I won't blindly say the climate change is a lie to justify my choice of vehicle!

Yeah, us guys in America need to pay more for our gas ,and do our part,,,,what an asshole!!! FU

[Tilar]

I have two degrees (geology and engineering) and I worked for over 20-years as a consultant for the USEPA and many other government (as well as private) agencies.  I'd like to think that my opinion is an educated one.....

True...but it's happening fast faster than ever before. Don't forget this planet was hot and uninhabitable millions of years ago due to the carbon (monoxide and dioxide) in the atmosphere.. then the plants grew and absorbed the carbon to be buried for millions of years. Now we dig it back up and burn it in the form of coal and oil..releasing all that previously trapped carbon. Does not take a genius to realise that it's not exactly going to improve the atmosphere.

That being said I recon my car will get 8-10 mpg and I'm expecting a panda to die each time I start it. I will worry about it when the Chinese don't build a power station every few hours and you guys pay a realistic price for your gas.....and do your part in protecting our planet.....lol ! But I won't blindly say the climate change is a lie to justify my choice of vehicle!

Of course the climate is going to change, and it's going to get hot, Real damn hot... Just read the bible, it will explain everything in detail.

[alfaitalia]

I have two degrees (geology and engineering) and I worked for over 20-years as a consultant for the USEPA and many other government (as well as private) agencies.  I'd like to think that my opinion is an educated one.....

True...but it's happening fast faster than ever before. Don't forget this planet was hot and uninhabitable millions of years ago due to the carbon (monoxide and dioxide) in the atmosphere.. then the plants grew and absorbed the carbon to be buried for millions of years. Now we dig it back up and burn it in the form of coal and oil..releasing all that previously trapped carbon. Does not take a genius to realise that it's not exactly going to improve the atmosphere.

That being said I recon my car will get 8-10 mpg and I'm expecting a panda to die each time I start it. I will worry about it when the Chinese don't build a power station every few hours and you guys pay a realistic price for your gas.....and do your part in protecting our planet.....lol ! But I won't blindly say the climate change is a lie to justify my choice of vehicle!

Of course the climate is going to change, and it's going to get hot, Real damn hot... Just read the bible, it will explain everything in detail.

Lol....but if you believe in all that nonsense then the planet has only been here about 25,000 years so we haven't really got any of that 100 million plus year old oil to even burn in your Charger motor...it takes about 60 million years minimum for gas and crude oil  to form naturally.

[fizz]

DO OUR PART?  Wasn't it BP who dumped the largest oil spill in the Gulf. And our people took care of it. I didn't hear of an army of Brits cleaning those beaches.
Not to speak of keeping you folks from having to learn German. Twice.

[alfaitalia]

Lol....you only rocked up for those wars at the last minute when you thought it might affect you guys directly..as usual....would you really have got involved if Pearl Harbor had not been bombed...I doubt. I think we've more than paid that back since with the amount of US led wars we've helped out in. But that's completely off the point and don't see the connection. The point I was making was doing your part for the environment and  that the cheap cost of fuel over there did not encourage people to buy cars that kick out less pollution. Over here we don't all drive small engined gas cars or diesels because we are all tree hugging environmentalists...it's because most of us can't afford otherwise. Petrol (ok gas!) is about $7 a gallon at the moment......a couple of years ago it was about $10. Now you are not saying that if you had to pay that it would not affect your choice of car? I see you guys largely running big thirsty cars and the Chinese polluting the world and think fuck it...me running a Charger a few miles a year and not sorting my recycling as well as I should is going to make no difference. However if the U.S.A. cleans up it's act, signs a few global emissions treaties (and actually sticks to them) and China follows suit then the rest of the world will sit up and take notice and we might get somewhere...not much the little old UK can do on its own especially as we are about to lose any influence in Europe too.
Anyway I'm off to the garden to burn some tyres and start a forest fire. I'm no fan of the tree hugging lot...but I don't like giving then ammunition to try and impose more silly laws either.

[fizz]

Cheaper here cause we got it here. Simple economics. We were headed same place till the Bakken expanded.

[cdr]

Lol....you only rocked up for those wars at the last minute when you thought it might affect you guys directly..as usual....would you really have got involved if Pearl Harbor had not been bombed...I doubt. I think we've more than paid that back since with the amount of US led wars we've helped out in. But that's completely off the point and don't see the connection. The point I was making was doing your part for the environment and  that the cheap cost of fuel over there did not encourage people to buy cars that kick out less pollution. Over here we don't all drive small engined gas cars or diesels because we are all tree hugging environmentalists...it's because most of us can't afford otherwise. Petrol (ok gas!) is about $7 a gallon at the moment......a couple of years ago it was about $10. Now you are not saying that if you had to pay that it would not affect your choice of car? I see you guys largely running big thirsty cars and the Chinese polluting the world and think fuck it...me running a Charger a few miles a year and not sorting my recycling as well as I should is going to make no difference. However if the U.S.A. cleans up it's act, signs a few global emissions treaties (and actually sticks to them) and China follows suit then the rest of the world will sit up and take notice and we might get somewhere...not much the little old UK can do on its own especially as we are about to lose any influence in Europe too.
Anyway I'm off to the garden to burn some tyres and start a forest fire. I'm no fan of the tree hugging lot...but I don't like giving then ammunition to try and impose more silly laws either.

I will say it again but this time I will spell it out,,,,, FUCK YOU!!! ,,,,, 

[69wannabe]

Lol....you only rocked up for those wars at the last minute when you thought it might affect you guys directly..as usual....would you really have got involved if Pearl Harbor had not been bombed...I doubt. I think we've more than paid that back since with the amount of US led wars we've helped out in. But that's completely off the point and don't see the connection. The point I was making was doing your part for the environment and  that the cheap cost of fuel over there did not encourage people to buy cars that kick out less pollution. Over here we don't all drive small engined gas cars or diesels because we are all tree hugging environmentalists...it's because most of us can't afford otherwise. Petrol (ok gas!) is about $7 a gallon at the moment......a couple of years ago it was about $10. Now you are not saying that if you had to pay that it would not affect your choice of car? I see you guys largely running big thirsty cars and the Chinese polluting the world and think fuck it...me running a Charger a few miles a year and not sorting my recycling as well as I should is going to make no difference. However if the U.S.A. cleans up it's act, signs a few global emissions treaties (and actually sticks to them) and China follows suit then the rest of the world will sit up and take notice and we might get somewhere...not much the little old UK can do on its own especially as we are about to lose any influence in Europe too.
Anyway I'm off to the garden to burn some tyres and start a forest fire. I'm no fan of the tree hugging lot...but I don't like giving then ammunition to try and impose more silly laws either.

I will say it again but this time I will spell it out,,,,, FUCK YOU!!! ,,,,, 

Well said!!!!!

[lloyd3]

cdr: A bit harsh, don't you think?

alfaitalia: I'm not surprised that we have a different world view on a few things.  We are clearly spoiled by our circumstances here, economic and otherwise.  I would point out that a fair amount of blood (American and others, of course) was spilled to get us to this point.  My recently departed father was a WWII vet (8th Air Force, B-17s) so I am somewhat invested in that history.  From what I know of world history, American does (very much!) tend to wait-out events in other parts of the world before she gets involved.  Having big oceans as borders has allowed that option until fairly recently, and in many ways it still does. We do not apologize (at least, not at the moment) for exercising our own self-interest. The UK certainly doesn't.  I saw that article today about the end of diesel and gasoline cars in your country by 2040. My response was, as usual, we'll see. A lot has to happen first.  In this country, we don't tend to surrender our freedoms without a fight (politically first and then physically, if needed). Because of our 2nd Amendment, that isn't an idle threat and our politicians know it. Clearly, this country is badly polarized at the moment, with stronger than what would be normal feelings on many subjects (possibly affecting the tone of this conversation?), the environment being one of them.  In my experience, environmentalists are really just socialists with a hidden agenda, so many otherwise good arguments are now badly tainted with that history.

Drive your car and enjoy it for what it really is...a free expression of your individual tastes for as long as you can. I sincerely hope that isn't going to change anytime soon.

[cdr]

cdr: A bit harsh, don't you think?

alfaitalia: I'm not surprised that we have a different world view on a few things.  We are clearly spoiled by our circumstances here, economic and otherwise.  I would point out that a fair amount of blood (American and others, of course) was spilled to get us to this point.  My recently departed father was a WWII vet (8th Air Force, B-17s) so am somewhat invested in that history.  From what I know of world history, American does (very much!) tend to wait-out events in other parts of the world before she gets involved.  Having big oceans as borders has allowed that option until fairly recently, and in many ways it still does. We do not apologize (at least, not at the moment) for exercising our own self-interest. The UK certainly doesn't.  I saw that article today about the end of diesel and gasoline cars in your country by 2040. My response was, as usual, we'll see. A lot has to happen first.  In this country, we don't tend to surrender our freedoms without a fight (politically first and then physically, if needed).  Clearly, this country is badly polarized at the moment, with stronger than what would be normal feelings on many subjects (possibly affecting the tone of this conversation?), the environment being one of them.  In my experience, environmentalist are really just socialists with an agenda, so many otherwise good arguments are now badly tainted with that history.

Drive your car and enjoy it for what it really is...a free expression of your individual tastes for as long as you can. I sincerely hope that isn't going to change anytime soon.

No, he has a history of slamming America , I will not take it, MANY Americans have given their lives so we can live a decent life & I am grateful & proud to be an American, the libtard socialist mouthpiece can  FO

[alfaitalia]

Well it's great that people can have a point of view and post them freely...and I have full respect for all your points of view...pity it does not seem to work the other way around but never mind. I dont have a history of slamming the U.S. as far I'm aware.....unless you see having an opinion different to yours as slamming you. Seeing things from a different point of view is a good thing as far as I'm concerned....and the more view points you get from differing places the more you might understand why folks say and act like they do. The one thing I'm not going to stand for us been called a socialist...nothing could be further from the truth. The socialist party here (known as the Labour party if you don't know your UK politics....and I freely admit to struggling to understand your system!) want to ruin this country with socialist nonsense and over jealous environmental policies...none of which I support....but that does not mean I don't care about the planet my eight year old will inherit. I've been a Conservative Party supporter my whole adult life (as are most here in the (slightly!) richer South) so thats moderate right wing capitalist politics and about as far anti socialist as you get without joining some fringe right wing group. Your country was born on freedom of speech...which appears to be fine until you hear something you don't agree with! What's funny is whenever I make a political or gun based comment I get slated on here and get no support....but I always get a pm or two from US members agreeing with me....funny how they are not brave enough to post though...but looking at the replies I'm getting I can sort of understand! I'll leave you to it gents.

[lloyd3]

This post has brought something into focus for me. These cars (well, at least my car) is a tangible form of freedom for me. When I was a kid it represented one form of freedom (ie. mobility), it now represents something else entirely and it's complex. It's about a birthright bought with blood, it's atonomy and self-reliance, it's pride of ownership, and it's a statement that I won't be controlled by some spineless, feckless, self-serving bureaucrat.

60s musclecars are simply about freedom, and in this day and age our freedoms are under assault from many quarters.  Driving mine is like waving a giant middle finger to all the nanny-state types and I love it.

[cdr]

This post has brought something into focus for me. These cars (well, at least my car) is a tangible form of freedom for me. When I was a kid it represented one form of freedom (ie. mobility), it now represents something else entirely and it's complex. It's about a birthright bought with blood, it's atonomy and self-reliance, it's pride of ownership, and it's a statement that I won't be controlled by some spineless, feckless, self-serving bureaucrat.

60s musclecars are simply about freedom, and in this day and age our freedoms are under assault from many quarters.  Driving mine is like waving a giant middle finger to all the nanny-state types and I love it.

WELL SAID Lloyd3 very true!!!

[Aero426]

60s musclecars are simply about freedom, and in this day and age our freedoms are under assault from many quarters.  Driving mine is like waving a giant middle finger to all the nanny-state types and I love it.

I think I will just idle in the driveway for ten minutes tonight, to celebrate the freedom that I can. 

[Tilar]

Lol....but if you believe in all that nonsense then the planet has only been here about 25,000 years so we haven't really got any of that 100 million plus year old oil to even burn in your Charger motor...it takes about 60 million years minimum for gas and crude oil  to form naturally.

lol, All that "data", just like every other "Scientific Fact", can only take into consideration the variables that man has been able to figure out at this particular point in time. You can take any data and change the variables and come up with the outcome you need to push an agenda.

[alfaitalia]

Lol....but if you believe in all that nonsense then the planet has only been here about 25,000 years so we haven't really got any of that 100 million plus year old oil to even burn in your Charger motor...it takes about 60 million years minimum for gas and crude oil  to form naturally.

lol, All that "data", just like every other "Scientific Fact", can only take into consideration the variables that man has been able to figure out at this particular point in time. You can take any data and change the variables and come up with the outcome you need to push an agenda.

Fair enough.....you are free to believe what ever you wish whether you are Christian, Moslem, Jewish or whatever and I respect that whatever your faith may be. I choose not to believe along with most of the planet's population these days I believe. Ignoring science seems odd....even many Christians now except evolution and the formation of the galaxy....believing the old Testament to be stories written to explain stuff that people just could not understand back then. If the planet was that new when you looked up at night you would not be able to see most of the stars....their light would not have had enough time to get here yet. Blind faith and word for word belief in religious texts is fine but dangerous in the wrong hands....hello Isis!
I know you can't argue with religion in a logical way so I will leave it there and may your God go with you.

[gtx6970]

Wow, This topic has sure went to chit in a hat basket
Went from how to evac an AC system to religious beliefs in under 2 pages ,,,that has to be a record.

[alfaitalia]

Yes you are right and it should not have happened and some of it is my fault (politics and religion is banned on here anyway). But one last thing I will say is that over on Jeep Forum when I have over 6000 posts (if that matters) we have a separate forum area for politics and religion. I write the same stuff over there..US residents either agree or not and whether it's guns, God or Trump we listen to each other's views and most importantly don't belittle other's views....and never ever have I been told to fuck off....you might be banned for doing so in fact as they are not very tolerant of swearing for some reason! I would not take it to my face and I'm not taking it here. I find most keyboard hero's don't have the balls to do it in "real life" anyway. I'm not sure why they might be more easy going over there but I suspect it might be a younger average age leading to minds that are not so set in their ways and more open to others ideas and are also at the age where cantankerousness had not set in yet?...who knows....certainly not this very young 50 year old ! The other thing is that I get told off (not necessarily this thread) for being anti Christian although I'm not (not believing is not being anti) but it seems fine to make negative and outright bigoted remarks about the Muslim faith....it seems to be forgotten that 99.9% of Muslims are good God fearing folks worshiping God in there own way whose faith is very much against killing.....however some on here seem to blame Muslims for most of the problems in the World at the moment....but its ISIS who are the extremists not Muslims in general...most Muslims hate what ISIS has done to the image of there faith. ISIS views are caused buy too much literal reading of the Koran and taking comments made hundreds of years ago out of the context of modern times.....much as some fundamentalist Christians do today....but not in such a violent way.  So anyway you will be pleased (or maybe not if you like healthy debate) that after much thought (about three minutes) that I've made the decision that if it's not a car based thread I won't be posting.....what's the point? ..I might think differently that one of you free thinking Americans and get told to fuck off again.      

[cdr]

.

[Tilar]

Ignoring science seems odd....even many Christians now except evolution and the formation of the galaxy....believing the old Testament to be stories written to explain stuff that people just could not understand back then.

I think you're misinformed... NO true Christian will accept evolution as the creation of the galaxy. That's not what the bible teaches.

[alfaitalia]

Ignoring science seems odd....even many Christians now except evolution and the formation of the galaxy....believing the old Testament to be stories written to explain stuff that people just could not understand back then.

I think you're misinformed... NO true Christian will accept evolution as the creation of the galaxy. That's not what the bible teaches.

http://www.eauk.org/church/resources/theological-articles/can-a-christian-believe-in-evolution.cfm


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_of_evolution_by_religious_groups


Just another view point. Yes I know I said the last would be my last post ...but hey, I couldn't resist..God moves in mysterious ways! No more non car connected posts...I promise.

[Tilar]

While Wikipedia does have some good information, it is easily manipulated to push an agenda. Anyone could create a page saying that most scientists agree that evolution is nothing more than a theory, and that would be correct. It still stands that no true Christian will believe it. You either believe the bible or you believe what some schmo dreamed up after a night on the town. I'll end it there.

[John_Kunkel]

NO true Christian will accept evolution as the creation of the galaxy. That's not what the bible teaches.

First ya gotta find a "true Christian". 

[Tilar]

NO true Christian will accept evolution as the creation of the galaxy. That's not what the bible teaches.

First ya gotta find a "true Christian". 

lol well there are a lot of us, but there are also a lot of people who are only fooling themselves.