How to avoid the "Snowball Effect"...

[Kern Dog]

I used to have this neighbor across the street. Smart guy, I mean Engineer type smart. He made few mistakes but one of his biggest faults was to OVERplan. He would ponder every angle of a project in the interest of efficiency and durability/quality. Often times before he could ever get anything done, situations around him changed because he took so long to develop a plan that he liked.
What I did learn from this guy was to look for potential obstacles that a person accidentally creates for themselves, stuff that can be a bitch to work around later.
To the point:
I want to add a few upgrades to my 1970 Charger. It is an original A/C car but the entire HVAC system has been dead the whole time that I have owned the car. The stock RV2 pump is too bulky for my liking so I am looking at an aftermarket kit from Classic Auto Air.
I also want to add power windows. I don't know if anyone makes a kit that includes the rear windows but I'd like to have them if they are available.
If I am going to add power windows, shouldn't I replace the scratched up glass? The windshield is only a couple of years old but the side glass may be original.
Finally, and here comes the "fly in the ointment"....I am considering a color change for the car sometime in the future. The Heater and A/C would be nice to have before then but to paint an engine bay, everything needs to come out. Cracking open the A/C lines wastes the refrigerant.
The windows will come out for the paint job except for the backlight. It does not leak and looks to be quite happy in there. I had to patch new metal in the rear window channel in 2002 when I first painted the car and there are no signs of rust coming back.
I guess what I could do is just buy the stuff that I want and stow it all to install after the paint work. That is the sensible way....but I don't know how soon I'll muster the motivation to start the teardown for paint! The car needs almost no bodywork. There is a small ding in the right door and a tiny bubble of rust on a rocker panel.
Great...Now I am looking like that neighbor!

[charger chris]

 

[cdr]

WOW!!! alot of work for a nice lookin car, [from pictures I have seen] , down time ? what color ?

[Kern Dog]

Thanks a bunch!
In 2008 I wanted to change it to some variation of B-5 blue. In the Summer of that year, I bought a Duster that was B-5 and "restored" it. That sort of pacified my interest for awhile. I sold that car in 2011. Since then I have still liked the color. In 2015 the Wife and I bought a new Challenger in B-5. The new color has a more chunky metallic and I really like it. I want to use the rare mid year sport mirrors too.

[cdr]

B5 is one of my favorites, I almost went b5 on mine but for many reasons it ended up Matte black , as you know a color change is LOTS OF WORK, I also saw that your car is painted body color on the underside.

[Kern Dog]

Oh yeah...California car built in St Louis. No undercoating, just the pancake batter sound deadener in the wheelhouses. To do it right means disassembly. 

[VegasCharger]

Well I could lead you to OEM rear quarter power window regulators, both sides. I'm not going to sit there and say "they're extremely hard to find" but then again they're not falling off the trees lol. The rest of the rear quarter window assembly is the same  from crank to power. The only difference are the regulators. And since you car is not all original I would suggest installing Dorman pw motors. I do have the OEM motors but they are cores and need rebuilt. The money spent on rebuilding them could go towards buying the Dormans instead.

Fall Fling is 3 months/2 weeks away, I could bring them there to save on shipping cost if you're attending. I can ship as well.

Anyway take your time thinking about a plan. I'm sure you're not just going to dive into it right away, I'm just throwing it out there. They do have the retro fitting rear quarter pw window setup from Nu-Relics.

http://www.nu-relics.com/Mopar-s/177.htm

I also have a 1968 pw wire harness (used) on the way (just bought it from a Moparts member) but the switches were hacked off. It could be used as a model/template to make a homemade one. Once I receive it I will go over it and see what's there. I don't need the harness for my needs just wanted to get it because it was there (impulsive buy).

Nothing better than driving a 2nd gen Charger with working A/C and power windows.

 

[garner7555]

I would install the A/C now.  The r134 is cheap, it should only hold $15 worth or less, so loosing the refrigerant isn't a big deal.  This way you have also got everything mocked up on the firewall so that after you change the color there is less chance of scratching it during re-assembly.   Plus you will get to enjoy the A/C until you tear it down for repaint.  I would just slowly collect the parts for the electric windows and do that install while the car is apart for repaint.   Just my           I like your car better in red personally, but I'm biased.        

[Laowho]

Not to try to help or anything, but I think my initial snowball angst morphed into sumthin worse, and by the end of it hope I don't succumb to a patina paint job. Finally began tearing into it to replace tranny and add SFCs and T boxes, and am on the road to a rat build. Thing is, I'm always not quite okay not bein able to rotisserie the car, but I have a plan, wh/ is what you need. "Where there is no vision, the people perish." By the time I'm actually ready for paint, we'll have a 100k miles on it and a rebuild will be just the break I need. Figure I got about a decade of driving around in part primer b4 I have to get serious and know what I'm doing. AND, by then I'll know better whether to stay B5 or go full on 1968 LL1 over a dark gray prime. Piece of cake. Besides, itsa lot more fun to drive this way.

[Troy]

I am an expert at the "while I am in here" syndrome!!! It usually means a weekend project has the car blown apart for 8-20 months. Add that to breaking at least one part (or 15 stripped bolts) for nearly every project and it's very frustrating. When I was younger and had to drive these cars every day I knew that I couldn't suffer an inoperable car so I became an expert at doing nearly every project from Friday to Sunday. This motivation is gone when it doesn't hurt anything if the car sits for a few months. I am getting better at cutting projects into small pieces that can be accomplished quickly. The biggest "aha" moment to help that process is realizing that getting these cars apart takes almost no time at all. I can literally strip one of these to nothing in a few days so there's really no reason to stress about the labor of doing most of it 2 or 3 (or 25) times. I have pulled engines in under 2 hours. On top of that, if you're putting in new parts or parts that might require modification/manipulation, you never want to do it with fresh paint. Watch how the reality shows will build a whole car and verify the stuff works then disassemble it all for paint, chrome, powder coating, and interior. It's doing more work specifically to save yourself from doing more work.

Troy

[alfaitalia]

Wise words....most of which I've learned the hard way!......now where is that little pot of touch up paint?!

[Kern Dog]

Great points, Troy. I have often had cars that had to be back together for the commute on Monday!
I have also considered the color Redline pearl that is on the new Challengers. It looks ordinary red until you are close to it, then the metallic looking pearl shows up.

[JR]

Just thinking out loud here, but if I had a complete, sorted car with nice paint and wanted a different color I would vinyl wrap it.

You still get the benefit of the color change, but you don't risk damage to miscellaneous parts and trim disassembling the whole car like you would for a full respray.

Thats just my opinion.

But then again, I've always liked the red paint.

[Mike DC]

  


The surest way to make a project take years is to decide it needs repainting.  There is no such thing as a low-intensity repaint unless you just tape off the windows and spray the outer skin.  

If the doorjambs & engine bay are the wrong color, and you start pulling the drivetrain & taking off the panels . . . then you will end up doing a full-blown once-in-20-years resto.  

[bakerhillpins]

Being an engineer type I identify with exactly the situation you describe in your neighbor. The wife and I call it having an academic moment or academic vapor lock.  I learned all this the hard way with renovating my home. Pull down a wall and you will find stuff that sends you off in all sorts of new directions. 

With my Charger I've tried to avoid this by "keeping my eyes on the prize" so to speak. My car is a decent driver (well, it's not even doing that well right now) and has lots of stuff that needs dealt with. I've got very little of two key elements, time and work space. Thus, the prize in this case is keeping it on the road.  So I look at what the most important change/maintenance is and deal with ONLY that issue at any given time. Even if I open it up and find something else, I just take notes and move past it until I'm done with the current project and then re-assess what is next after that is done. The list is constantly adjusted based upon $$ and time available.

It's not always successful, and sometimes I need to do 2 things to get it back on the road but it does keep it on the road.

With regard to the Power window deal for the 70, the OEM systems are out there. A guy in the Carlisle swaps this last weekend was selling a complete system (motors, glass, switches, etc) which all worked and he was asking $400 and was willing to negotiate.

[darbgnik]

It's easy for a weekend project to turn into a few boxes for a few months. To a certain degree, the "while I'm in there" thing will save some time later on, but it could easily get out of control. Obviously, my car sat  in pieces during paint and body for a few years, but since I've got it back, I do everything in stages, with the end result being that it must be put back together and driving at the end of each project.

It seems to me that most projects stall when the owner bites off more than they feel like chewing, especially getting carried away with disassembly. It's an easier walk when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel at the end of a day, but when it's in a million pieces, it's easier top get overwhelmed and walk away.

[Kern Dog]

There has been some really sound advice given here. The car does not need to be repainted, that is just something that appeals to me. I can see how a guy can start off with great plans to just forge ahead...THEN one delay turns into another and somehow 5 years pass by. I sure don't want that!
Good sense tells me that I should just install the A/C and power windows and enjoy the car. Thank you for the help, guys....I do appreciate it.

[darbgnik]

There has been some really sound advice given here. The car does not need to be repainted, that is just something that appeals to me. I can see how a guy can start off with great plans to just forge ahead...THEN one delay turns into another and somehow 5 years pass by. I sure don't want that!
Good sense tells me that I should just install the A/C and power windows and enjoy the car. Thank you for the help, guys....I do appreciate it.

Yeah man, that's what I'd do. I'm waiting for a new balljoint press to show up so that I can change the u joints in the driveshaft for my new rearend, as the car had a combo u joint, instead of a straight 2 5/8" u joint. Of course, I could pull the shaft out, clean it up, and install the third member now, but I'm not even gonna start until the tool shows up. Start and finish, not start and wait, then I'll fiddle with this over here........

By the way, not sure what you think of these guys pricing for the full setup:

http://www.nu-relics.com/Mopar-s/474.htm

[Kern Dog]

Thanks, Brad. I did look at that link. I saws approx $1000 for all 4 windows with switches. I would LOVE to have the factory switches for the OEM look though.

[chargerperson]

I used to have this neighbor across the street. Smart guy, I mean Engineer type smart. He made few mistakes but one of his biggest faults was to OVERplan. He would ponder every angle of a project in the interest of efficiency and durability/quality. Often times before he could ever get anything done, situations around him changed because he took so long to develop a plan that he liked.
What I did learn from this guy was to look for potential obstacles that a person accidentally creates for themselves, stuff that can be a bitch to work around later.
To the point:
I want to add a few upgrades to my 1970 Charger. It is an original A/C car but the entire HVAC system has been dead the whole time that I have owned the car. The stock RV2 pump is too bulky for my liking so I am looking at an aftermarket kit from Classic Auto Air.
I also want to add power windows. I don't know if anyone makes a kit that includes the rear windows but I'd like to have them if they are available.
If I am going to add power windows, shouldn't I replace the scratched up glass? The windshield is only a couple of years old but the side glass may be original.
Finally, and here comes the "fly in the ointment"....I am considering a color change for the car sometime in the future. The Heater and A/C would be nice to have before then but to paint an engine bay, everything needs to come out. Cracking open the A/C lines wastes the refrigerant.
The windows will come out for the paint job except for the backlight. It does not leak and looks to be quite happy in there. I had to patch new metal in the rear window channel in 2002 when I first painted the car and there are no signs of rust coming back.
I guess what I could do is just buy the stuff that I want and stow it all to install after the paint work. That is the sensible way....but I don't know how soon I'll muster the motivation to start the teardown for paint! The car needs almost no bodywork. There is a small ding in the right door and a tiny bubble of rust on a rocker panel.
Great...Now I am looking like that neighbor!

Lived this exact phenomenom, but through a restoration shop.
I took my 67 Charger in for a paint job and to fix the brakes (car sat for a few years) and because it was running rough.  Car emerged 15 months later with a complete rotisserie restoration/restomod with modern hemi, tremec, wilwoods, RMS suspension, vintage air, etc.  Non matching numbers 400 motor had some issues so decided to go with modern hemi, which lead to suspension and transmission which lead to new brakes.  Since car was disassembled, great time to change paint color and do it right.  Once the shop did all of that, it would have been crazy to reassemble with tired interior so, restored the interior as well and rechromed everything which cost another fortune given all of he chrome on the car.

[Kern Dog]

Well, I'm guessing the car is pretty cool now though, right? 

[stripedelete]

From the project management lexicon, the neighbor has "Analysis Paralysis" and it sounds like your issue is "Scope Creep".   Either way,,,,, I can't help you

[chargerperson]

Well, I'm guessing the car is pretty cool now though, right? 

yes pretty cool in the end

[Kern Dog]

Many Chargers on stock width tires look awkward to me, sorta like a 300 lb football player with a size 3 foot. These cars look so much better with the wheelwells filled up with wider tires!

[darbgnik]

Many Chargers on stock width tires look awkward to me, sorta like a 300 lb football player with a size 3 foot. These cars look so much better with the wheelwells filled up with wider tires!

It's a real balancing act I think. Full wheel wells look good. Slightly oversized with a proper stagger looks right. Some people love the slicks n skinnies look too though.... Then there's the Donk thing, that I won't touch on. And of course the "stance" thing guys are doing running around on the inside edges of their tires?

Style trends tend to be characatures of performance mods blown out of proportion:
Larger wheel, less sidewall, better handling(fits bigger brakes). Huge wheels on rubber bands, horrible heavy cement truck ride. (22" wheels over 10" rotors on a factory Ford Edge Sport)
Aggressive camber in the -2 to 2.5 range, better cornering grip. Stanced to a 45 degree angle, rollerskate handling.