WIW? 1970 Challenger 440 Six Pack 4-speed clone

[Troy]

I am planning to sell my 70 Challenger. I purchased it from a member here so some may remember it. Is currently a 440 Six Pack 4-speed R/T clone but started out as a Slant Six 3-speed in F4 green. Literally no options (as you can see by the side mirror). Actually minus one because it's a radio delete car (see lack of antenna on fender). It is most certainly "driver" quality. The last "restoration" was almost 20 years ago and both the previous owner and I love driving. It's been to Carlisle twice, the Mopar Nationals twice and on the Hot Rod Power Tour. The engine and transmission are from a 69 Coronet R/T (so 440 HP and 18-spline). Both have been rebuilt. The trans and shifter only have about 4-5 tanks of gas worth of miles. Certainly less than 500 total miles. The carbs are repros with a fresh rebuild and new hard lines. The distributor is from FBO with the vacuum modified to work with the Six Pack. I installed an auxiliary fuel pump with a 3 second timer to prime the carbs and a valley pan with the heat crossover blocked to help with the fuel boiling problems it had when I got it. The suspension is original style equipment upgraded to the big block specs. It has an aftermarket disc brake kit on the front. Front wheels are original 15x7 and rears are repro 15x8. The body is all original and very clean. While working on the exhaust I did notice some pinholes in the "ribs" of the rear floor pans. I probably could have tack welded them all in a few minutes but the carpet was still in the car and I'm accident prone! There's a small patch in the trunk and there are some very small bubbles starting in the driver's door. The paint has some chips. It's also old and not the greatest to begin with. The yellow does a superb job of hiding the scratches and other imperfections though! It has Rally gauges with electronic tach and clock conversions. The shifter handle has been rechromed with new pistol grips. The console top is a stainless repro. There is an aftermarket radio and 4 speakers.

I've dumped a bunch of money into it since I bought it. It's currently my only running Mopar so I'd rather drive it all summer rather than take a giant loss. I really want to get some other projects finished though - including my my 68 Chargers so something has to give. What do you all think?

I will clean it and take more pictures before putting up an ad...

Troy

[Troy]

More. I never noticed the gap in the gauges. Can't see it from the driver's seat so it must be the odd angle.

Troy

[Troy]

More.

Troy

[DAY CLONA]

If it's as nice in person as it appears in the pics, clone or not, it's an E body and a 70 w/440/6-4spd, IMHO I'd like to see $50K if I was selling it, but I think low to mid $40's is where it will sell

Test the waters on Ebay, as much as some might hate it, it's your biggest audience, you might be surprised at the results

Mike

[Troy]

Yeah, the biggest hurdle for me on price is: how does the non-original 440 Six Pack and 4-speed compare to a real R/T 383 auto (because that's what I see for sale mostly). I won't compare it to small block cars - other than to figure what it would cost to convert one with these same parts. Just a 4-speed swap alone is expensive and then add the 440, all the Six Pack components, gauges, hood, exhaust, rear valance, suspension and brakes.

Honestly, this is really the perfect case for a build-anything-you-want car because of the condition of the body and the fact that there's nothing original left. It's actually pretty dumb for me to sell it for those reasons since I drive my cars a LOT and am not skilled at body work. For some dumb reason I tackle rare, rusty projects that I'll be scared to drive regularly when finished.

Troy

[4mayhemi]

Yeah, the biggest hurdle for me on price is: how does the non-original 440 Six Pack and 4-speed compare to a real R/T 383 auto (because that's what I see for sale mostly)

I think someones gonna be happy driving this one.  The 440-6x4sp gets you up there.  However this might fall in that purgatory spot, where it's not a 'vert with a 6PK/Hemi dropped in and it has no sunroof or RT/SE options, but it's a no-option starter, which would be fine for a restomod but it's not that either.  So you're looking for another guy who wants a nice OEM-looking solid driver, but I don't see many drivers bought at 50K or even 40k unless it has future potential like a T/A or Charger R/T, or "U"/"V".  And a guy looking to "build wild" won't start at 40K either.

If it was still a /6F4, it might roll for 15K. With your color change and options added, and if it had your 68 383HP in it, I think it might only bring 24-28K (a real 383 might bring 32-35K?) I think even the 440-6 would be hard pressed to pass 34K.  There's just too many options from 35-50K out there.  I know my opinion is lower than you'd want to hear, but this is a unique WIW, maybe listing it and see what sticks.

[hemi-hampton]

Maybe around $30k I was thinking. no insult intended  LEON.

[Troy]

Thanks for the input guys. More would be welcome as well.

Don't worry about insulting me - that will come from prospective buyers just before I yank it off the market...

I had actually put what I thought it was worth (or what I realistically thought I could get) in the original post but didn't want to sway opinion and removed it. I haven't been following Challenger values for a year or two so I started this thread before blindly posting an ad. I do not expect to be able to retire by selling this thing. I would like to finish another project or two with the proceeds. If I can't get enough to do that then I'll just keep driving it. I'm happy either way!

I only mention it's value as a clean slate because that's exactly what I need! I guess I'm trying to convince myself to keep it. I could build the car the way I want and sell off the OEM projects that will take twice as much money and time to finish and be too nice to drive. I'm smart enough to realize that pulling the drive train would certainly drop the value (to everyone else) so I can't touch it until I decide its fate.

Troy

[chargerboy69]

I have a "friend" here in town with basically the same set up. 70 Challenger, original 318 now a 340 6 pack and a 4spd. Plum Crazy with white interior. I would call his car better than driver quality as he has spent sometime detailing it top to bottom.  I was offered the car a few months back for $29000.00.

[DAY CLONA]

Too many sellers, the type that don't often sell, advertise only locally, or reference a small portion of sales input, local shows/events/etc or on a small forum often sell themselves short too many times....hence my suggestion to list it on Ebay, your exposure now goes world wide, you'll see how quickly it will move in the market, you'll get unsolicited off line buy offers, but in most cases, the vehicle will show up days to weeks/months later on Ebay priced higher when you go that route, plus you violate Ebay rules, which could cost you


Selling/pricing at a National marque event(s) is not a good gauge or platform either, I had an associate trying to sell a vehicle locally, no bites, advertised on a few boards/sites, no takers, I met him at Carlisle Events, he asked me to look at his vehicle and price it for sale, I told him $30K and depending on how bad he needed the money I wouldn't let it go for less than $25...well he thought my pricing was "out of line" with what else was on sale that day and $10K more than what he was intending to ask, so he marked it for $20K based on what everyone else had similar vehicles priced at, I told him he was giving it away, so we spoke for some time catching up on old times, when the first buyer/offer showed up, of course he got the father/son, I been searching for so long, I love it, etc speech and the low ball offer of $15K at which he was ready to bite, I said hold your ground, well that was $19K on the spot cash sale....shortly after I see his vehicle at the Nationals for sale (surprise, not) listed for $29K, nothing done to it, sells that week for $26K...of course I have to drive home the point with him that he lost out to a flipper....I later tracked the vehicle were it sold again months later on Ebay from the west coast for $34K, again nothing done to it, just flipped...and again I had mentioned Ebay initially as his best venue, but he declined ....

I had a seller contact me thru various channels because he was told I was local to him, to look at his cars, a 340/4 spd Cuda, and an AAR, both his father's cars passed on to him thru Probate, both cars had sat garaged since the early 80's both original, and in decent shape, but not running for decades, the seller only interested in cash, wanted a quick 2 for 1 price sale, I mentioned Ebay, but didn't want the hassle, so I let an associate I knew purchase the vehicles, I told the seller he was looking at $90K, he scoffed at me, sold both for $45K package deal, again both cars flipped, my associate make his investment back on just the 340/4spd Cuda, and later pocketed another $60K on the AAR, both thru Ebay

I've seen so many deals over the years just flipped and flipped/Ebay'd it's mind boggling, and when one says "well I got what I was asking", and others parrot the same sentiment to you when you find out it sold for more, even doubling in sale, often in weeks/months, it does "hurt", esp if you had some sentimental value to it, or were duped into taking a low ball offer on a Father/son project, I'll never sell it, I've been searching for years, or my Dad, etc, etc, line of horse puckey ... and if your selling it to fund another project, the addition funds you let slip by could have finished your project sooner...

Granted, Ebay can sometimes be a hassle to set up an account to sell on, but it's advantages for a greater market/price offering far out way that, I use to be of the same thought, until I set up an Ebay account, I can move articles in a faster time, let the buyers bid against each other, sit back and take the offer I want or decline the offer with a stroke of the keyboard...

That's a sweet looking Challenger Troy, and if you let it go too cheap for not being steadfast and diligent in pricing, I'm sure you'll see it listed again shortly thereafter.... I hate to sound like "it's all about the money", but in today's market, it is, so take advantage of it, or it'll take advantage of you

Mike

[Troy]

Most importantly... should I throw some dust on it and declare it to be a "barn find"?

Thanks again for all the advice!

Troy

[hemi-hampton]

SO, Throw it on ebay with at least a $40,000 opening bid & see if anybody bids.

[73rallye440magnum]

Troy, wouldn't you be happier keeping your driver, and selling me a project? Think of all the joy that would bring you. 

Sounds like a reliable pavement shredder. Detail it and dial in any nags a prospective buyer would observe during a test drive and I think you're in the low 30's. It's summer, slap it on eBay with high BIN to set a precedence and you just may get it.

Good luck!

[Troy]

Troy, wouldn't you be happier keeping your driver, and selling me a project? Think of all the joy that would bring you. 

Sounds like a reliable pavement shredder. Detail it and dial in any nags a prospective buyer would observe during a test drive and I think you're in the low 30's. It's summer, slap it on eBay with high BIN to set a precedence and you just may get it.

Good luck!

If you want to overpay for my lime green Challenger A66 then absolutely! I'm at the point where I have more in it than it's worth (for the condition it's in). You know, when you take a reasonably priced project that you could sell then buy all the sheet metal, blow the car apart, and start welding. It really won't recover its value until it's finished. But it will be super cool then! The other projects are my 68 Chargers and my priority is to actually have them finished. It would take a LOT to get me to let either one go. I sold off four others though. Where were you then?

Honestly, if I had time to detail this thing out so it was perfect then I'd have time to work on a project! This car was purchased solely as a stopgap for something to drive while I finished a Charger. Several years and a pile of money later I have found that running cars are money pits too and I spend as much time maintaining them as I do building the projects. Problem is, I like the projects more and I feel they are being neglected. I have had my bronze 68 since 2002(?) and had all the metal work done in 2009 (my Thanksgiving thread is on here). It has basically sat in the same condition since. I got my R/T in 2008 and it's been sitting on jack stands ever since (ok, it moved from storage to my new garage right after I got it). I haven't even washed the barn dirt off it!

I had this car out yesterday for 3 hours and spent 2.5 of those talking to random people that I met at the gas station and at stoplights. Nothing but positive comments - even when I point out the flaws.

Troy

[73rallye440magnum]

I was eluding to your 4 speed '68! That way you won't feel guilty for not working on it.

[moparstuart]

Troy, wouldn't you be happier keeping your driver, and selling me a project? Think of all the joy that would bring you. 

Sounds like a reliable pavement shredder. Detail it and dial in any nags a prospective buyer would observe during a test drive and I think you're in the low 30's. It's summer, slap it on eBay with high BIN to set a precedence and you just may get it.

Good luck!

If you want to overpay for my lime green Challenger A66 then absolutely! I'm at the point where I have more in it than it's worth (for the condition it's in). You know, when you take a reasonably priced project that you could sell then buy all the sheet metal, blow the car apart, and start welding. It really won't recover its value until it's finished. But it will be super cool then! The other projects are my 68 Chargers and my priority is to actually have them finished. It would take a LOT to get me to let either one go. I sold off four others though. Where were you then?

Honestly, if I had time to detail this thing out so it was perfect then I'd have time to work on a project! This car was purchased solely as a stopgap for something to drive while I finished a Charger. Several years and a pile of money later I have found that running cars are money pits too and I spend as much time maintaining them as I do building the projects. Problem is, I like the projects more and I feel they are being neglected. I have had my bronze 68 since 2002(?) and had all the metal work done in 2009 (my Thanksgiving thread is on here). It has basically sat in the same condition since. I got my R/T in 2008 and it's been sitting on jack stands ever since (ok, it moved from storage to my new garage right after I got it). I haven't even washed the barn dirt off it!

I had this car out yesterday for 3 hours and spent 2.5 of those talking to random people that I met at the gas station and at stoplights. Nothing but positive comments - even when I point out the flaws.

Troy

wow  was that 2009 ?   , i remember that thread  , doesnt seem that long ago , time flys 

[1970Moparmann]

I have found that running cars are money pits too and I spend as much time maintaining them as I do building the projects.

AMEN Troy!   The older I get the less I want to do this.. LOL

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Bring it to Carlisle and put it in the Car Coral, slap a silly number on it, and see what kind of feedback you get there....heck you might even sell it there if you're serious...

[bakerhillpins]

Bring it to Carlisle and put it in the Car Coral, slap a silly number on it, and see what kind of feedback you get there....heck you might even sell it there if you're serious...

I'm with Chris.  Try a spot at Carlisle and see what happens.

I guess I'm trying to convince myself to keep it. I could build the car the way I want and sell off the OEM projects that will take twice as much money and time to finish and be too nice to drive.

I talk with you every year about the same car... I'm still here patiently waiting. I'll be at Carlisle or drop me a line.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Are those pictures taken before you slammed the hood on top of the rubber mallet left on top of the radiator?

[Troy]

Are those pictures taken before you slammed the hood on top of the rubber mallet left on top of the radiator?

I'm pretty good at making sure nothing is in the way before shutting the hood - although the other day I locked my keys in the trunk while in a hurry!

I was looking at this picture when I posted it trying to remember why exactly I had the mallet out. If you look real close you can see the fuel pressure gauge hose and my temporary carb lines so it was right after the rebuild while I was tuning. Once I got it running right, I removed the extra adapters and put hard lines back on. Perhaps the way to get a Six Pack to run right is to threaten it with a hammer?

Troy

[Homerr]

Most importantly... should I throw some dust on it and declare it to be a "barn find"?

Thanks again for all the advice!

Troy

If that's the original chrome on the side mirror you'd better call it a survivor too!

[Troy]

Most importantly... should I throw some dust on it and declare it to be a "barn find"?

Thanks again for all the advice!

Troy

If that's the original chrome on the side mirror you'd better call it a survivor too!

Good thinking! It is.

I will also have to mention "Hemi" somehow.

Troy

[hemi-hampton]

Most importantly... should I throw some dust on it and declare it to be a "barn find"?

Thanks again for all the advice!

Troy

If that's the original chrome on the side mirror you'd better call it a survivor too!

Good thinking! It is.

I will also have to mention "Hemi" somehow.

Troy

if you got a 18 spline you can call it a hemi 4 speed LOL.

[Troy]

Most importantly... should I throw some dust on it and declare it to be a "barn find"?

Thanks again for all the advice!

Troy

If that's the original chrome on the side mirror you'd better call it a survivor too!

Good thinking! It is.

I will also have to mention "Hemi" somehow.

Troy

if you got a 18 spline you can call it a hemi 4 speed LOL.

It is! I'm gonna be rich!

Troy