I used to think that A/C in a classic car was for wimps.

[Kern Dog]

Now I am rethinking my position.
Not that I live in Phoenix or Georgia but I think I'd enjoy the car more with a properly working heater and A/C system. MY 70 Charger is an original A/C car but ever since I bought it in 2000, the heater has not worked, the A/C stuff was pulled and tossed when I installed the 440 in 2001 and it has been a Spring and Fall car since then.
I used to see cars at shows with the hood up and be disappointed to see the big A/C compressor and lines in there. The beauty of these older cars includes the uncluttered engine bay free of the mile of hoses and other stuff newer cars have. Lately I have considered how I would drive this car more if I was not limited to just a few months per year. It has never been an issue of the cost. The "Vintage Air" and "Classic Auto Air" kits are around $1500 from what I see. In November 2015 I put in new Dakota Digital gauges and Neon SRT 4 seats. OEM stock has not been of interest to me so an aftermarket A/C system with a different control panel is fine by me. I'd enjoy the ability to drive comfortably in 100 degree weather like I do in my 2007 Ram or the Wifes car.
I know that will have to call he companies direct to know for sure but in the meantime, I have a few questions that maybe can be answered here.
Are there provisions to fit a replacement system in an original A/C car that eliminates all the vacuum controls to simply run with electrics? I'd prefer to be all electric because if I want to run a bigger cam one day, I'd prefer to not have vacuum be a consideration.
I also wonder about where to mount the compressor. I recall seeing them mounted below the alternator before in some cases. I like the idea of tucking it out of sight but I don't recall how the hard lines were routed. I have 2" TTI headers that could pose a clearance problem. Would the hard lines run through the fender apron and come back into the engine bay near the firewall? Thanks for the help.

[cdr]

I rebuilt my factory ac box & updated the compressor.works GREAT.

[BDF]

Same issues / thoughts here (except I do not have 2" headers).
Will be watching this one 

[M5Ivan]

Kern Dog - I had the same thought last summer when I left it at home too many times when it was too warm out. I bought mine to drive it!
I installed the majority of my Classic Auto air system over last winter. I have a factory a/c car and everything in the engine bay had been removed at some point and all that was left was the box under the dash, the controls and the valve at the firewall. The CAA system eliminates the vacuum controls and replaces them with electric controls that mount in the same spot. The hard lines aren't hidden in the CAA system and at some point I'll work on cleaning up the lines, but it doesn't bother me.... I'm too busy enjoying my ice cold a/c 
I think the Vintage system hides some of the lines, but I'll let others chime in who have experience with it.

[alfaitalia]

If it hasn't got air con...I dont drive it! Even in cold damp GB we get hot days...well over 80 today for example. Although in reality I use it for demisting the car more than chilling it!  On Charger the it will be an issue though....too many other things being belt driven...but, money permitting, it will have AC when its finished.

[Mopar Nut]

Don't be a sissy Greg, roll down the windows and let the air blow.  

[69wannabe]

If I had a factory a/c car I would have it working for sure at this point but my car is a non a/c car and after looking at the aftermarket kits and seeing how you have to butcher the firewall just to get it in there I decided to leave mine alone. I got three jeep grand cherokee's with working a/c so if it's too hot I will just drive one of those.

[polywideblock]

aussie air cond , all windows down and don't drop below 45 mph 

[Bronzedodge]

I like having my AC on, especially at full throttle.

[krops cars]

Vintage air has a kit a friend of mine put in. The kit hides the hoses. It looks really good. The hoses I believe run in side the fender well.

[Todd Wilson]

Don't be a sissy Greg, roll down the windows and let the air blow.  

HAHA!   I remember as a kid in the 70's going on family trips. All day long hundreds of miles with the hot wind beating in on you thru the open windows.  You were dry and numb by the time you got to where you were going! Fun times!


Todd

[BrianShaughnessy]

Just had a Classic Air kit dropped off at my door for Sinnamon.   

[Offblue]

I too had the AC ripped out of my 68 before i bought it, i live in the city and the drive to the highway is excruciating, the heat through the firewall could cook an egg, same issues with my friends 67 mustang ... needless to say i will be putting a modern AC unit or the like your looking at.

[Homerr]

Schwetty crack on vinyl?  No thanks!   

[morepower]

yeah no a/c plus vinyl seats equals a sweaty mess. i'd be okay putting a system in my car that did not require the factory huge a/c box.

[JR]

Mine was a factory AC car, but the previous owner removed the underhood stuff and left the box.

By my calculations, the original heat/AC box weighed 495,351 tons, (give or take a few oz.) So I happily removed it and will convert to a modern, electronic controlled unit when the time comes.

The original vacuum stuff seems needlessly heavy and complex.

I can't wait.

[F8-4life]

I bet your 70 charger thinks your a wimp for even considering a/c!

[M5Ivan]

By my calculations, the original heat/AC box weighed 495,351 tons, (give or take a few oz.)

Agreed! I managed to remove mine while my car was in a 10x20 storage unit through a half open drivers door  If I ever have to do that again it will be too soon!

[gtx6970]

I will not even consider buying an old car if it doesnt have A/C


I built a 1970 Cuda for a guy a couple years ago. We hung all aftermkt ac stuff on it. Works like a charm on 100 degree days.

[charge69]

I fully understand the need for A/C, especially living down here in SE Texas but ......... what about my car and cars like it? J-code R/T with original drivetrain in it !  As much as I would like to put A/C in it, I just cannot bring myself to do it !

[moparchris]

Today it's 116 in Phoenix with 120 projected for tomorrow and Wed.  It's to freakin' hot to even drive WITH A/C!!!!!!!!  If you're just driving it's fine but if you park and leave the windows up for more than 10 minutes the inside temp is over 140-150. 
Hence my hemi C500 only gets driven from Oct. to April.  Can't cut that one up for aftermarket air.

[DeltaV]

I hate the engine bay clutter of an air conditioning system. My '70 is a factory original 383 magnum, 4 speed car. In my mind it makes no sense to have air conditioning in this car. The windows are easy to operate while driving since they are powered.

The original owner of my '70 had an aftermarket a/c set-up installed after he purchased the car in New Jersey and moved to Dallas, Texas. Inside was one of those large, ugly units for busting up the passenger's knees. Under the hood was a hideous looking compressor that must be at least three times the size and weight of an RV2 compressor. All of the special brackets to hold the monstrous compressor weigh a ton too.

I removed the aftermarket air conditioning when I lived in Texas and it will not be reinstalled when I reassemble the car. I now live in Georgia where it gets hot and humid, but it is not as hot as Dallas and not as hot and humid as Corpus Christi.

[Dans 68]

One of the main reasons my newest project is a factory big block 4-speed A/C car. Very cool....   

Dan

[Kern Dog]

Sort of a funny thing....
The A/C in my 2007 Ram has been acting up lately. I'm taking it in for repair tomorrow. Driving with the windows down in 80 degree weather is not bad. Doing so on a 100 degree day sucks ass because you are just getting beat in the head by hot air. After even a few minutes I am frazzled and dazed as if I had the radio tuned to some death thrash metal music. Who wants to drive something that beats your senses for every mile that you drive ?
Growing up in the 80s, nobody I knew kept the A/C in their street cars. It was dead weight and looked bad under the hood. The GM cars had that huge compressor that looked like a 2 liter bottle laying sideways. The Ford guys had that square block, the Mopar guys had the RV2 that was front and center like a small fridge in front of the carburetor.
While I never street raced for money, I liked the idea of a low optioned type lighter car. No power windows, door locks, sunroof or huge stereo system. The Charger was not intended to be a daily driver since I work in construction but I did want it to perform well. The Chevys I had before had to be emission tested so anything that added weight would only make the car THAT much slower than it already was.
I had a 73 then later a 76 Camaro, both A/C cars. In 1993 I bought my first vehicle with working A/C and after that, my daily driver always had it.  My 70 Charger now has cloth/leather seats from a Neon SRT 4 so its not as if I'm slipping around on sweat covered vinyl. Still, the smaller aftermarket Sanden compressors seem to look neater and more compact. My car has the ducting in place, the stock HVAC box, vacuum lines, everything except what used to be under the hood.
A Friend from San Jose has a 69 Coronet R/T that he drives MORE than his 2009 Challenger. Rain, 100 degree days and everything in between. He has some aftermarket A/C kit in it and after hanging out with him in Van Nuys, I think I am willing to put vanity aside and choose comfort.

[bill440rt]

I have a CAA system in my '69, works like a charm. Use the search function for the build thread of my car, the installation procedure is explained. This was put in a non-AC car. The only "hacking" involved drilling 2 holes in the firewall, and removing the passenger side vent box and installing their supplied block off plate using the original holes.
Their system has since been upgraded to all electric, and now uses their own switch assembly, which sorta resembles stock.

I'm seriously considering installing one in my '68, which has a stock appearing engine compartment. Maybe I'll just paint the compressor black or something so it blends in like a stock one.

[69rtse4spd]

K. D. how do the SRT seats look & work, can you post some Pict's. thanks.

[VegasCharger]

as if I had the radio tuned to some death thrash metal music.

SLAYER!!  

[One mopar]

+ one on the srt seats 💺. O and On compressor choices the rv piston one is the best reason being it a self oiling system and has a higher output of 12.5 ish at 2000 rpm vs 9.5 sandin if I remember right lots of people have done testing I'm citing  Harrison a/c aka gmc technical papers rv can use more than one type of refrigerant I'm planning using co2 with mineral oil, like the 2018 dodge demon and in emergency I can use as fire suppression or cool my radiator and stop it from warping my engine / intercooler mist bar

[ACUDANUT]

 If you have several Muscle Cars, A/C could be a serious money issue.  i.e. how often you drive it ect.

[Kern Dog]

Here are the seats:

[Kern Dog]

In the car:

[Kern Dog]

They are comfortable and really hold me in place.

[ACUDANUT]

I agree, Factory seats suck and I for one hate them.

[Kern Dog]

For their time, the original 1970 seats may have been pretty good. Think about the tire and suspension science of the day: The cars didn't handle like todays cars so they didn't need seats with the side supports like sporty cars have.

[69rtse4spd]

Thanks for the Pict's, look good. Did you use the SRT brackets also or custom made set. 

[Kern Dog]

Thank you,
I made my own mounts  using 2X3 .90 wall rectangular material. Each of the 4 mounts are unique! I worked to make sure that the seats are level and even to each other. The Floor pan is stock and pristine, yet I still had 4 different heights for the mounts. Maybe the left and right seats have slightly different frames

[RCCDrew]

I live in Corpus Christi so I know about it being hot. My Cuda has AC and it was one of the best mods I did. If you hate the underhood clutter you might consider an electric AC compressor.

https://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/SHM-electric-air-conditioning-compressor-3753

[Mike DC]

https://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/SHM-electric-air-conditioning-compressor-3753

IIRC those things draw too much amperage.  It would move the AC compressor off the motor but it would demand a 2nd alternator instead.

Electric compressors are mainly showing lately because electric cars need them.  Those cars also have big batteries & higher voltage electrical systems to improve the efficiency of the whole mess.  

[RCCDrew]

https://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/SHM-electric-air-conditioning-compressor-3753

IIRC those things draw too much amperage.  It would move the AC compressor off the motor but it would demand a 2nd alternator instead.

Electric compressors are mainly showing lately because electric cars need them.  Those cars also have big batteries & higher voltage electrical systems to improve the efficiency of the whole mess.  

A bigger alternator would be an easy mod and not draw a lot of horsepower. Electric compressors for refrigeration have been around for decades. If electric fans rob less horsepower it only makes sense that electric AC compressors would as well.

[69rtse4spd]

Thank you,
I made my own mounts  using 2X3 .90 wall rectangular material. Each of the 4 mounts are unique! I worked to make sure that the seats are level and even to each other. The Floor pan is stock and pristine, yet I still had 4 different heights for the mounts. Maybe the left and right seats have slightly different frames

Thanks so much.

[Mike DC]

A bigger alternator would be an easy mod and not draw a lot of horsepower. Electric compressors for refrigeration have been around for decades. If electric fans rob less horsepower it only makes sense that electric AC compressors would as well.

I read into the idea of an electric AC compressor a few years ago.  It turned out the compressor alone was liable to demand something like 100-200 amps on a 12v system.  I don't recall the exact figure but it was huge. 

Electric compressors are more feasible in buildings because they aren't running 12v DC power.   Power can always be converted to other voltages but of course there are efficiency losses every time.  Engine power, converted to electricity, transferred to the compressor, and converted back to spinning power .  . . that's several stages of efficiency loss. 


Also, I'm thinking if the OEMs could save 0.25 mpg with an electric AC compressor then they would have probably quit running belt-driven ones years ago.  They are pretty far into diminishing returns on that stuff already.  The AC compressor is a very big power draw no matter how it's being spun. 

The OEMs may have waited longer for electric power steering because there is zero room for failure on something like that.  Older generations may have had more tolerance for problems there but not anymore.  21st century drivers would all get into wrecks & call lawyers if their power steering suddenly quit.   

As for the electric radiator fan, my guess is that it helps save MPG because it can be entirely off so much of the time.  I mean, it can draw enough power to dim the headlights when it kicks on. 
   

[Kern Dog]

I live in California, yet so many companies are Midwest or back East. By the time I am off work, they are closed. I have to figure a time to call them for info.
I see that the "Classic Auto Air" uses a system that can either retain the stock controls (Modified to then control the non stock HVAC unit) or use a factory appearing new control panel. Obviously I'd want something that looks similar to original for the sake of appearance.

[charger_fan_4ever]

Have to say i thought the same. Ac taking up space robbing hp toss it.Its only a nice day driver no need ect. That being said i foresee adding AC to my 70 down the road. Here if its not raining its a humid 30C+ day.

i had a foxbody mustang i sold this year. The past 2 years id put maybe 100 miles on it. Each day i could drive it was always too hot took the car with ac. Considering all my dailys and pick up must be Ac. The charger will end up with it too.

[Mike DC]

           
AC is one of those things like automatic trannys.  It's gotten more popular as our road/highway system has gotten more jammed and the roads have gotten all suburbanized.  The heat is more frustrating when the trips are longer & the driving is boring. 

[LaOtto70Charger]

Does "Classic Auto Air" use the original ducts?  From their website it looked like Vintage Air used their own duct system mounted under the dash.  Is that their only option?

My car has A/C but doesn't blow hot air.  Need to dig into why but it I have to convert to new refrigerants or replace stuff I was looking into what the options are too.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Does "Classic Auto Air" use the original ducts?  From their website it looked like Vintage Air used their own duct system mounted under the dash.  Is that their only option?

My car has A/C but doesn't blow hot air.  Need to dig into why but it I have to convert to new refrigerants or replace stuff I was looking into what the options are too.

I bought a firewall forward kit that uses my existing in cab ducts.     All my original parts in the engine compartment were trashed back in the 70s.
New compressor,  condensor, lines, etc.

[M5Ivan]

LaOtto, are you asking about the vents or the duct hose? CAA uses all of your original vents except the center dash and they supply all new duct hoses. They have a replacement vent for the center dash that fits the their duct hose adapter. I know at least one person here modified the adapter to fit their original center vent.

[LaOtto70Charger]

Sorry the vents.  My system is all still there so I wouldn't want to add a vent section under the dash.  Changing the duct that goes to the vent as is in the dash no big deal. 

Changing to the electrical part of switching sounds like a good thing.  When I change to defrost I have to reach under and push the bar up farther all the time.

[alfaitalia]

As far as people saying that ac robs horse power...well of course it does....but unless you are counting the hundreths  at the track I doubt you will notice it...unless you have a really rubbish compressor. Back in the day when it was optional on the cars I was selling we used to get two sets of fuel consumption figures and performance figures..one with ac and one without. The bigger the engine (or to be accurate the higher the torque) the less difference it made...so on a BB with a good compressor I bet it would be hard to measure. On a modern car driving at 45 mph plus you will drop the mph more by driving with two or more windows down that with the ac on.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I just have to add some R12 & I'll be all set to go.  

[alfaitalia]

Cant buy r12 over here.....due to environmental reasons.....just the less efficient but more planet friendly (allegedly) r134a. It is possible to get it but not as an amateur like me. Can only be bought by authorised and qualified techs......so if you know the right people you CAN get it....never bothered myself and use r134a. Its not that they think the public don't handle it correctly, its that without the correct equipment a lot of people were empting the old stuff by just venting it to the air....not good!!

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

One day Ill get my factory AC to work.....meh...probably not!  LOL

[BDF]

Those are looking very nice under the hood.

[Nacho-RT74]

I love to get my car with everything on stock look and in working order.... including the AC with original RV2 compressor

[Derwud]

Get the Vintage Air System.. They have factory and non factory air systems.. I am running a hybrid ducting. I had a factory center dash section and using the Vintage outer outlets (Easier to point at my Crotch).. They use a Factory like control panel. Not assembled yet, but working on it..

[BDF]

Get the Vintage Air System.. They have factory and non factory air systems.. I am running a hybrid ducting. I had a factory center dash section and using the Vintage outer outlets (Easier to point at my Crotch).. They use a Factory like control panel. Not assembled yet, but working on it..

Waiting for KD's comment on this....

[Lennard]

Get the Vintage Air System.. They have factory and non factory air systems.. I am running a hybrid ducting. I had a factory center dash section and using the Vintage outer outlets (Easier to point at my Crotch).. They use a Factory like control panel. Not assembled yet, but working on it..

Waiting for KD's comment on this....

Yep, the word "crotch" should get him going.

[Kern Dog]

 
No pictures, please....It can be hard to UNsee something like that afterwards.

[Nacho-RT74]

I have allways though performance and comfort can live together... thats where a 3rd gen with AC comes into perfection because they are more comfy than earliers ( LOL ) And even with my stroked engine, kept the original AC working.. and FLAWLESSLY. Even with the heater ( locally whre supossely heater is not needed, the outlets were factory sealed althought complete system installed ). I was the first owner on make work the heater! Still had sealed the water pump outlets when I bough the car

[cbrestorations]

a/c is still for whimps, i use misters on the headliner with a 20gallon tank and pump in the trunk. going up hill i flip a valve to spray on the radiator

[Kern Dog]

Ahhh, Chris.....You are not even close to 50 yet. Sometimes a man gets to the point where he is tired of sweating!

[Mike DC]

    
Living in a place with high humidity, along with the high heat, will change your whole outlook on how important AC is.  

[Derwud]

No pictures, please....It can be hard to UNsee something like that afterwards.

No pictures... I figured with this set-up I could use the outer vents for the front seat passengers and the center for the rear seat passengers, if there are any..