Handguns

[Charger_Fan]

Save your breath mate...I might agree  (and the fact that the USA (with guns) has 10.54 gun deaths per 1000 citizens per years compared to the UKs 0.23 per 1000 (that's nearly 46 times as high)

Not sure where you got your information from but that is so wrong. the US has a 10.3 state average gun death rate per 100,000 people.

Meh, what's a couple fewer zero's between friends, to skew the stats a bit.

[RCCDrew]

I'm from Texas, love my handguns, carry them everywhere and will never give them up. I have a carry permit; we can carry open or concealed.
It is my right as an American, and a responsibility I don't take lightly. Whenever I see someone else carrying, I go up to them and thank them. One day they may save my life.
Concealed carriers are generally the most law abiding group of citizens in he US.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2016/08/10/report-concealed-carry-permit-holders-are-more-law-abiding-than-police/

[ACUDANUT]

 Why do you have to have a permit..?
Only give the Government of what you have.
Look what happened at New Orleans.  Do a Google search about gun confiscating there and you will be shocked.

[alfaitalia]

Save your breath mate...I might agree  (and the fact that the USA (with guns) has 10.54 gun deaths per 1000 citizens per years compared to the UKs 0.23 per 1000 (that's nearly 46 times as high)

Not sure where you got your information from but that is so wrong. the US has a 10.3 state average gun death rate per 100,000 people.

Meh, what's a couple fewer zero's between friends, to skew the stats a bit.

Oops ...missed that typo ...I meant per 100,000....which is still 46 times higher than us. Sorry chaps!

[John_Kunkel]

When comparing the U.S.A. to other countries one must remember that none of them have constitutional provisions guaranteeing the right to keep and BEAR arms. Our framers recognized the security of an armed society.

[DeltaV]

https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries

The blog is too long to post here. So, I am only posting the link.

[RCCDrew]

Why do you have to have a permit..?
Only give the Government of what you have.
Look what happened at New Orleans.  Do a Google search about gun confiscating there and you will be shocked.

I agree, but I will do what I have to do until constitutional carry gets passed.

[alfaitalia]

https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries

The blog is too long to post here. So, I am only posting the link.

The most biased bs Ive read in long time!.....obviously written by a pro gun person rather than the neutral person it should have been. The guy is trying to prove that in the very bad bunch he's picked, the US is not as bad plus he's largely picking countries that have lots of guns...so to get the idea of how bad an idea guns are to have with the general public and how they affect the death rate you NEED to compare with Europe etc where guns are very few.

You guys have guns built into your culture now...and its been that way for so long that its NEVER going to change. There will never be a good argument to justify it (if you are honest and really thing about it) and the more guns you get the more deaths there will be......you folks are just so used to high gun death rate that its considered normal. We had two mass shootings here back in the 80s....just two (?)....that's was all it took for the ban.....you get them all the time and very few folks seem to even care.....except the victims and their relatives I'm guessing! Also I'm convinced that lots have guns because they are "cool" rather than any real self defence concern ....especially those with huge collections!

As I said before, its your country and as long as the majority of you want them in your democratic society, then you guys run you country as you see fit. If you want to have guns in a country with the highest rate of mental heath disorders in the World then go ahead....what could possibly go wrong!!

[RCCDrew]

This thread is on its way to getting   but here goes. Sounds funny that because that article brought in the whole of information, and didn't cherry pick info, you called it BS.
Next, almost every  culture that has been overrun by a dictatorship has had its guns taken away first.
Lastly, gun and knife violence is going up in the U.K.  But that shouldn't happen because England has great gun laws.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/britain-hit-surge-violent-crime-senior-officers-criticised-ignoring/amp/
England is already starting to ban more knives as well, because that will solve the problem.  

[XH29N0G]

Something doesn't jibe with that.  By that reasoning most countries with gun control should be dictatorships. I think the connection is less direct than implied.

[alfaitalia]

This thread is on its way to getting   but here goes. Sounds funny that because that article brought in the whole of information, and didn't cherry pick info, you called it BS.
Next, almost every  culture that has been overrun by a dictatorship has had its guns taken away first.
Lastly, gun and knife violence is going up in the U.K.  But that shouldn't happen because England has great gun laws.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/britain-hit-surge-violent-crime-senior-officers-criticised-ignoring/amp/
England is already starting to ban more knives as well, because that will solve the problem.  

More BS.....our gun death rate would have to go up by 4600% just to equal yours! Most current dictator ships have much more lax guns laws than the UK....although mostly not as relaxed as yours. Carrying knives with a blade more than 4 inches has always been illegal in the UK. To compare carrying a knife with a gun is ridiculous . No guy with knife can hurt me at greatly than about 4 feet...ill take that chance over being shoot with a gun at 50 yards anyday!

As I said before...your country your rules....just don't try and justify it with crap.

[chargerbr549]

Some people just can't grasp the concept of a well armed society and a civilized society co-existing.

[Laowho]

I think ya gotta define some terms. Civilized means city-dwelling, and as for well-armed, especially for a militia that's constitutionally designed to stand up to a tyrannical federal gov't., that's been impossible long time now. (Unless you're a Bundy?)

[Bobs69]

/quote]


As I said before...your country your rules....just don't try and justify it with crap.

[RCCDrew]

This thread is on its way to getting   but here goes. Sounds funny that because that article brought in the whole of information, and didn't cherry pick info, you called it BS.
Next, almost every  culture that has been overrun by a dictatorship has had its guns taken away first.
Lastly, gun and knife violence is going up in the U.K.  But that shouldn't happen because England has great gun laws.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/britain-hit-surge-violent-crime-senior-officers-criticised-ignoring/amp/
England is already starting to ban more knives as well, because that will solve the problem.  

More BS.....our gun death rate would have to go up by 4600% just to equal yours! Most current dictator ships have much more lax guns laws than the UK....although mostly not as relaxed as yours. Carrying knives with a blade more than 4 inches has always been illegal in the UK. To compare carrying a knife with a gun is ridiculous . No guy with knife can hurt me at greatly than about 4 feet...ill take that chance over being shoot with a gun at 50 yards anyday!

As I said before...your country your rules....just don't try and justify it with crap.

Call it BS or whatever you want, that article was sourced from Scotland Yard. No one said we have equal numbers of shootings, just that England's gun and knife violence is going up. And about the 4' knife safety zone you talked about, you are living in a fantasy world there. It would take about a second to close that space and end your life.
How are there still guns in England with such strict gun laws? Oh yeah, criminals don't obey laws!  Forgot about that one.
https://youtu.be/IC3rmKtgLks  This is a video of a guy with a knife charging a cop from about 20' away. Even getting shot the attacker almost gets to the officer. 

[alfaitalia]

It would have been a worse situation here...as or Police don't carry firearms...but do wear stab vests all the time. Chances are the knife guy would not have risked getting that close to a cop here that posed him no real threat (no gun)...if he had he would have risked a good beating with the night sticks all police carry here. Our cops have voted several times on weather to routinely carry....they always vote know. One cop made me laugh on the TV when he said that the cops who did vote yes were probably the very ones who shouldn't have guns! Lol.

[Tilar]

Save your breath mate...I might agree  (and the fact that the USA (with guns) has 10.54 gun deaths per 1000 citizens per years compared to the UKs 0.23 per 1000 (that's nearly 46 times as high)

Not sure where you got your information from but that is so wrong. the US has a 10.3 state average gun death rate per 100,000 people.

Lol! Sorry for being 0.24 out!...that's hardly "so wrong

lol no that's not it, You have it per 1000 people and it's per 100,000.  Makes a heck of a lot of difference in stats.   

[alfaitalia]

...yeah...I said about that typo a few posts back. Must remember to read before I post!

[Bobs69]

This thread is on its way to getting   but here goes. Sounds funny that because that article brought in the whole of information, and didn't cherry pick info, you called it BS.
Next, almost every  culture that has been overrun by a dictatorship has had its guns taken away first.
Lastly, gun and knife violence is going up in the U.K.  But that shouldn't happen because England has great gun laws.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/britain-hit-surge-violent-crime-senior-officers-criticised-ignoring/amp/
England is already starting to ban more knives as well, because that will solve the problem.  

Law enforcement are taught to draw their weapon on a knife yielding individual.  Even if they are threatening you with it from 25 FEET away.  That gap can be closed in under 2 seconds.  Trained law enforcement have a tough time drawing their weapon in that amount of time.  I'm willing to bet most of the carrying population wouldn't find it in their pants.

Law enforcement is trained to use their duty firearms against someone yielding a knife.  From 25 feet away a person with a knife can be on top of you in under 2 seconds.


More BS.....our gun death rate would have to go up by 4600% just to equal yours! Most current dictator ships have much more lax guns laws than the UK....although mostly not as relaxed as yours. Carrying knives with a blade more than 4 inches has always been illegal in the UK. To compare carrying a knife with a gun is ridiculous . No guy with knife can hurt me at greatly than about 4 feet...ill take that chance over being shoot with a gun at 50 yards anyday!

As I said before...your country your rules....just don't try and justify it with crap.

Call it BS or whatever you want, that article was sourced from Scotland Yard. No one said we have equal numbers of shootings, just that England's gun and knife violence is going up. And about the 4' knife safety zone you talked about, you are living in a fantasy world there. It would take about a second to close that space and end your life.
How are there still guns in England with such strict gun laws? Oh yeah, criminals don't obey laws!  Forgot about that one.
https://youtu.be/IC3rmKtgLks  This is a video of a guy with a knife charging a cop from about 20' away. Even getting shot the attacker almost gets to the officer.  

[Laowho]

It would have been a worse situation here...as or Police don't carry firearms...but do wear stab vests all the time. Chances are the knife guy would not have risked getting that close to a cop here that posed him no real threat (no gun)...if he had he would have risked a good beating with the night sticks all police carry here. Our cops have voted several times on weather to routinely carry....they always vote know. One cop made me laugh on the TV when he said that the cops who did vote yes were probably the very ones who shouldn't have guns! Lol.

Well, that kinda egalitarianism won't fly in the States. For one thing, the powers that be know better than to leave such decisions to a class of people whose IQ is knowingly and lawfully constrained by the departments during hiring. The original rationale presented to the Circuit Court was that if cops were too intelligent they'd get bored and leave, but there's always the ancillary benefit that they follow orders better. Itsa win-win. Besides, what's the chance that tomorrow I'll be a 12-year-old African American w/ a toy gun AND have a scared-stupid neighbor call one of these Einsteins on me to shoot me? Always reminds me of the death of Archimedes. Now THAT'S what I call civilized--the luxury to kill your own w/o consequence. Wait--that's "collateral" and I can stop thinking there. Kinda breathes fresh life into Swift's A Modest Proposal. All that's needed for OUR meager plebeian understanding to condone such are the legion of abstractions we use to justify everything--you know, things like "we're civilized," a word w/ real magic in it that can stop us thinking dead in our tracks. Bravo State--you've trained us well. And if you wanna make an omelette (State/civilization/whatever), you gotta break a few eggs (brain cells--This is Your Brain, and This is Your Brain on Media/Political Talking Points/Dumbed-Down Classrooms/Patriotism/"Reality" TV/Pick Your Poison).

[alfaitalia]

I'm sure you are right......but if I'm honest very little of that made any sense to me !...but I'm glad our cops don't have guns (routinely at least...there are officers known as "Armed Response Officers" who turn up when something serious happens...and that's VERY serious like the recent Londons attacks (a bit like your SWAT I'm guessing)....as Ive never seen an armed copper except at the airports where they always carry machine guns!) and more importantly don't feel there is a need for guns.

[ACUDANUT]

More people are killed everywhere (per year) for texting and DUI's, than guns.

[Swampwing2]

Since police have been brought into the topic.

I wonder how the number of police officers in the prior examples (Idaho vs Canada) factors  into the statistics. Do cities with more armed civilians per population or land area have more or less police officers than cities with non armed civilians?

It would be an interesting comparison, I would think. Makes you wonder if more police are needed in places where civilians can't carry since there is no one to stop the bad guys and they know the odds of getting caught by police or killed by a civilian are probably very different. 

[ACUDANUT]

You can do the math here.  Police without a gun is pointless.  Kind of like a military armed only with blanks.

[alfaitalia]

Why would they need them? When 99.99 % of the villains don't carry.....and when they do its often to use on each other rather than the law!! Just carrying a gun without even getting it out will mean a 5 year minimum prison stretch if caught (7 years max)....just not worth it in the eyes on many criminals. If you kill someone with a gun its 30 year minimum...where as kill them any other way and you could be out in 15 (with spotless behaviour and remorse).


Anyway...that's my point of view and I realised when I started that I would not get many agreeing from the US. We are very happy with next to no guns and you like having them...so that's fine. We got into a big guns debate over on Jeep forum (there is a political section for this sort of thing there so very few threads get locked) and I got much the same replies. I got off quite likely.....but when an anti gun US resident joined it the poor guy got torn to pieces....probably why none have posted on here.

That's enough from me on this anyway....I'm amazed its lasted this long without locking!!