505 RB build with Trick Flow heads

[Paul G]

Doing more research prior to pulling the trigger with an engine builder. It seems cost effective, and just wise to use the Trick Flow 240 heads. I have not ran across anyone who has anything negative to say. Actually, "they are the real deal" is very commonly heard.

So, I have spoken with two engine builders in town. Both have my pertinant info on the use of the engine and what my goals are. Run cool on the street, run power brakes, power steering, and A/C, run mid 12 quarters on street tires.

4100# car
46RH auto w lock up converter
Diff is 3.91 8 3/4 sure grip

I am curious now what they are going to come back with. Anyone care to guess on the build spec?

[BDF]

 

[c00nhunterjoe]

On a pump gas 505, i would run the mechanical comp xs282 (or equivalant brand) have a mild port/blend done on those trick flows, comp steel roller rockers, 1 7/8 header, performer rpm intake, quality 850-950 carb. It will run mid 12s on bfg street tires with the rest of your drivetrain, 11s on tire.
    I suspect they will reccomend a hydraulic cam though.

[Paul G]

    I suspect they will reccomend a hydraulic cam though.

Yep. Hydraulic roller. Thats all they want to build anymore. They blame the oil for it.

[firefighter3931]

On a pump gas 505, i would run the mechanical comp xs282 (or equivalant brand) have a mild port/blend done on those trick flows, comp steel roller rockers, 1 7/8 header, performer rpm intake, quality 850-950 carb. It will run mid 12s on bfg street tires with the rest of your drivetrain, 11s on tire.
    I suspect they will reccomend a hydraulic cam though.

That looks good. I like the XS282S for that build as well but I'd have it custom made with a 112* LSA and have the cam nitrided and use a tool steel flat tappet with EDM hole for priority lobe oiling. Use Brad Penn oil and it'll be fine. I'd opt for a low rise single plane like the Holley Street Dominator (better hood clearance + more top end power) and an 850 Quickfuel or Proform carburator. Keep the compression at 10-10.5:1 for pump gas. Upgrade the fuel lines to 3/8 and run a 120GPH fuel pump.


Ron

[pipeliner]

Are you building a race car or a maintenance free street car? Why wouldn't you want to go Hydraulic Roller on the cam?

[Paul G]

Are you building a race car or a maintenance free street car? Why wouldn't you want to go Hydraulic Roller on the cam?

It is a street car. It will see some track days and some back road trips to 6500 RPM.

I too would like to know the pros and cons about using a hydraulic roller in a big block.

On FABO there are some B and RB builds using mild hydraulic roller cams with OOTB Trick Flow heads, 10.5 compression, single plane intake either the Trick Flow or Wilson Manifolds, 850 carb or bigger, making roughly 550 HP and 600 TQ or better. My build is going to be for a street car, I want an acceptable idle, some choppiness to a point is okay, and have at least some street manners.

[justcruisin]

Are the tool steel lifters worth the extra $$ with a mild cam like the xs282s over a standard EDM lifter, they are pricey - roller territory.

[c00nhunterjoe]

If you are going roller, go solid. These blocks were never designed for lifter oiling stability at rpm. The clearances are just there. Can you run hydraulic- sure. Will it run ok- yup. But you are leaving alot of free power on the table. You are already spending the money on roller lifters and adjustable valvetrain so just go solid. 

[303 Mopar]

Not Trick Flow Heads but here is my 505 stroker build specs.  My butt dyno says it has 600+ hp and tq, is not high maintenance and is a blast to drive.

1975 440 block
Camshaft - Lunati 60312 Hyd Roller Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 231/239, Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .535/.550, LSA/ICL: 110/106, RPM Range: 2200-6200
Cam Button - Comp 206
Timing chain - Lunati 94225
Roller Lifters - Lunati 72338-16
Rocker Arms - Comp Roller Set 1621-16
Springs - Comp 925
Heads - Edelbrock 60929
Pushrods - Comp 7774
Bronze Dist/oil pump drive - Mopar P3690875
Head Bolts - ARP 145-3606
Main Studs - ARP 140-5401
440 Source Stroker kit - 440.512.5060
Pistons - 5060 4R 4L
Piston Rings - CR6490-35
Rods - 7.1"
Main Bearings - Clevite MS1795V
Rod Bearings - Clevite CB743HN
Cam Bearings - Clevite SH876S
Oil Pan - Summit 440 6 pack deep pan
Oil Pan Gasket - Fel-Pro 1834
Valve Cover Gasket - Moroso 93055
Valley Pan Gasket set - Fel Pro 1215
T-stat - Milodon 180 high flow 16406
Plugs - Champion RC-12YC
Windage Tray - 440 source for stroker
Bore - 4.350
Stroke - 4.25
Head Gaskets - Fel Pro Perma Torque 8519-PT
Carb - Proform 850 Black Street Series 67314
Intake - Holley Street Dominator HLY-300-14
Water Pump/housing - Mancini High Volume Kit MRE6900KAH

https://youtu.be/HIYHRgbeYOI

[pipeliner]

That sounds like a good build 303. Just remember I also know that you leave a little bit of power on the table by not going solid and engine builders love to squeez every bit of power they can out of an engine but believe me your not going to need it in a build like you want. I would also go with the Trick Flow Roller lifters. Suppose to be a better roller lifter than the comps and the others.

[firefighter3931]

It will see some track days and some back road trips to 6500 RPM.

Typically hyd lifters are done at 5800-6000 rpm....regardless of the cam's powerband. The hyd lifter will pump up and send the valvetrain into valve float. If you really want to buzz it up to 6500 you will have to go solid roller or solid flat tappet. The Flat Tappet will require less maintenance and is a better choice for a car that will be driven a lot. Solid roller cams will make more power but it comes at a price. 

Hyd rollers are fine for an engine that won't see the high side of 6K rpm and use milder spring pressures so less stress on the valvetrain.


Ron

[Paul G]

Typically hyd lifters are done at 5800-6000 rpm....regardless of the cam's powerband. The hyd lifter will pump up and send the valvetrain into valve float. If you really want to buzz it up to 6500 you will have to go solid roller or solid flat tappet. The Flat Tappet will require less maintenance and is a better choice for a car that will be driven a lot. Solid roller cams will make more power but it comes at a price. 

Hyd rollers are fine for an engine that won't see the high side of 6K rpm and use milder spring pressures so less stress on the valvetrain.


Ron

Leading me toward a solid lifter?

Truthfully, I am not nice to this car, even the small block. I did not buy a numbers matching trailer queen. I take good care of the car, hell parking lots give me fits. But, I like to drive it hard. 

How much maintenance will the solids need? The car only gets 3000 miles per year, albeit not easy miles. Frequent lash adjustments? What is the downside to a solid roller? I like the idea of using regular oil and not having to worry about it.

Are you saying that a solid flat tappet, is less maintenance than a solid roller? I like less maintenance. 

Sorry for so many more questions.

[Back N Black]

I'm running the comp xs282 cam for 10,000 miles and I have made no adjustments to the valve train. I drive her very hard!!!

[c00nhunterjoe]

The solid roller typically has extreme spring pressures due to the aggressive grinds. The solid flat tappet can be ground more friendly for your needs. IF you use a good rocker and lock setup, they dont come loose. I check mine yearly and have almost never had to adjust them. Typically, if you find a constant need to adjust them, something is going very, very wrong.

The 72 nova has never been apart and the valve covers hadnt been off in over 20 yrs. It has a relativly large solid cam in it for a street car and i pulled them 3 yrs ago to check, all valves were dead on spec.

[fizz]

I had tons of problems with my hyd roller cam set up. Both the comp cams and lunatis failed on me.

Was the original setup a screwed up mess by original builder? yup. He was a reputable(magazine article) builder

Never bothered to figure out what it was exactly, when I pulled the heads (440 source) found out they where milled heads off a blown up engine. Got disgusted and:

Ordered a set of trick flow 240 heads and a Dwayne Porter speced comp solid flat tappet cam, Dwayne set up the heads and they did need some work.

505 rear wheel horsepower on a 493 and runs like a watch.

Call Dwayne

[pipeliner]

Both cams failed you??? Sounds more like the builders fault or the bad batch of roller lifters from Comp when they first came out.

[fizz]

I can't blame either for certain as I don't know if the builder set up the heads properly, this is above my skill set.
The builder went AWOL on me after the build, and I was so upset when I saw the shrapnel wounds in the combustion chambers I just started over with the top end.
But, my point is, hire the right guy for this.
There is a reason Dwayne recommended a solid flat tappet for me.

[pipeliner]

Dwayne is good as what he does for sure.

[PRH]

I sold a relatively easy on parts solid roller to someone who built a 505/TF240 combo.

Pump gas, and experiencing some pretty significant carb issues........ It made 670tq/630hp.

I'm not certain fixing that carb will prove to be worth any power or not........ But if should definitely decrease the amount of thick black soot in the exhaust ports.

Supposedly there is talk of another test with a new carb....... If so, I'll post the updated numbers.

[fizz]

With the hydraulic roller setup from my first builder, I had a lot of lifter noise, so we reset the lash and found a couple where it was hard to find 0 lash (couldn't feel it) changed cam and lifters (overkill to change cam I know but it was too radical for my tastes) to lunati and same thing again, noisy valve train and couldn't feel 0 lash on a three lifters. Pulled heads and found they had been milled to clean up and had had parts bouncing around the combustion chambers at one point and had been hit with a die grinder to clean up.

I probably could have sent those heads to someone like PRH and solved my problems, bought a couple new lifters and been fine, but I was tired of fooling with it and bought new parts.

Dwayne certainly didn't advocate staring over with all new parts but knew I was tired of fooling around with it, and I liked the idea of trick flow heads(my idea). He recommended the solid flat tappet cam I used, and part of that may have been cause he knew I was sick of buying lifters and wasn't trusting them. I didn't like the maintenance and short life associated with solid rollers(maybe somebody more knowledgable than I should explain this)

I want to make sure I am not misrepresenting PRH

I am a happy camper now, and that is the point.

[PRH]

The customer with the 505 I mentioned above was originally leaning towards a hyd roller.
The target was 600tq/600hp, which I told him was not going to be a problem.

I was going to use some Morel lifters and a really smooth lobe profile to get it to rev solidly to 6k.

After he searched around a bit and saw a lot of people not thrilled with their hyd roller set-ups, we discussed the options.
I told him if I were building it, it would get a solid flat tappet.
He wasnt receptive to the idea of something without wheels...... And the cost of Isky Red Zones didn't scare him off, so we decided on a solid roller.

It easily would have exceeded the 600/600 goal with a solid flat tappet cam in it.

Fizz....... Hopefully you've had a chance to get out and enjoy that car a little !!

[fizz]

About a 1000 miles and a pair of tires thanks

[alfaitalia]

Many on here not mentioning the power lost with flat tappets due to the extra load/drag on the cam. The extra 20 horses or so you might loose from not getting the valves to open the full lift of the cam with roller hydraulics are more than made up for by the lack of rolling resistance on the cam shaft. Not to mention the more aggressive profile you could have on the rollers without the worry of the edge of the tappets digging into the lobes. Just my two pence worth!

[Paul G]

I'd opt for a low rise single plane like the Holley Street Dominator (better hood clearance + more top end power) and an 850 Quickfuel or Proform carburator. Keep the compression at 10-10.5:1 for pump gas. Upgrade the fuel lines to 3/8 and run a 120GPH fuel pump.


Ron

Hood clearance is an issue. The 360 with an Eddy rpm air gap intake, and the flat hood barely closes, thats with a drop base air cleaner. Is the Holley street dominator low rise single plane going to be any higher than what I have now? Will it perform as well as a high rise? I am not against cutting a hole in the hood. Really thinking about the Trick Flow Track Heat high rise and just cutting the hood.    

Can a mechanical fuel pump feed this engine? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1723/overview/make/dodge
This one puts out 110 GPH with a 3/8" outlet.

Still have not heard back from either of the engine builders.