Air cleaner and pie tin

[Bad B-rad]

My 69 Charger, is a 383 4bbl (330hp)A/C car. It has the #'s engine and trans, and came to me with the A/C in place, but empty of refrigerant and the engine not running.
It also came to me with the duel snorkel air cleaner housing on it, but no pie tin.

So as far as I can tell my car should have the duel snorkel air cleaner, engine painted blue, but what pie tin, a red 383/Magnum or red 383/4bbl? Or none?
Looking on line, guys use all kinds of combos of the above, I have even saw photos of 383 A/C cars engine painted orange with the 383 magnum tin on a air cleaner with no snorkel.

What I want to know is how would the factory do it, was it one of those "they just used whatever they had" things?
I always thought that all A/C big blocks (in 69 Chargers)were blue, with Holley carbs, and duel snorkel air cleaners.  And that it was a red color tin up till end of 69, then orange from 70 on.
I also kind of thought all Charger big block 4bbl engines were called Magnums.

So is that correct and what pie tin should my car have had?

Thanks.

[69CoronetRT]

 The a/c cars were 330 horse versions not the 335 horse Magnums so the Magnum tin is incorrect.
The 330 horse engine should be turquoise.
The transition from red to orange took place during the 69 model year.

[Bad B-rad]

So then a 69 383 A/C should have a tin that reads 383 4bbl?
And orange or red could be correct?
My car was a spring car, so I would guess orange.

Just for personal knowledge, what is the difference in a 383-335hp engine vs the A/C 330hp version, is it the Holley carb vs the carter? Or is it a cam change?

Thanks.

[XH29N0G]

The cam also changed for the HP 383.  

FWIW 1970 must have followed different rules re A/C.  My car came with AC and had a magnum pie tin.  

I did a quick web search and came up with this for the specs but have seen what I wrote in various literature sources and discussed on this forum as well http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/1968-383-stock-cam-specs.254943/

[69CoronetRT]

The cam also changed for the HP 383.  

FWIW 1970 must have followed different rules re A/C.  My car came with AC and had a magnum pie tin.  

I did a quick web search and came up with this for the specs but have seen what I wrote in various literature sources and discussed on this forum as well http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/1968-383-stock-cam-specs.254943/

Yes. 1970 is different than 68 & 69. There was a 335 horse a/c assembly.

[Bad B-rad]

So in 1969, the 383 330hp 4bbl A/C engine has the same camshaft as the 383 2bbl engine?
Oh say it aint so!

I Had two intake valves stuck on the engine when I got it, so I just put rebuilt heads on it, and had I known the 330hp cam was the same as a 383 2bbl, I would have def changed to a 383Roadrunner/magnum cam.

I had a 67 383 2bbl engine from a Newport, that I put in my 66 Charger,I added a M1 duel plane 4bbl intake with Holley 750 carb, Hooker Super Comps,and a few other bolt on's and we ran 14.2 @98mph with 3.23 gears.
So nothing against the 2bbl cam, I just wanted a bit more of a"thump" at idle,and a bit more performance then the 66 Charger.

What was the specs on the 1970 383 335hp A/C cam?

[Bad B-rad]

I guess because this is the #'s engine, and my goal is to drive this car, for now the cam will stay. I plan on maybe a 383/400 stroker in the future, but for now, I must not get distracted and just drive and enjoy the car as much as I can.
Looks like I may need to order up a 383 4bbl pie tin and hang the 383 Magnum on the wall, as garage art!! LOL!!!!

[B5 Charger]

Hey Bad B do you have the original carb and linkage/spring setup on your 69?   Putting the correct Holley 4bbl on mine and could use some detailed pics to make sure I gather up all the right parts.  I agree your air cleaner should be dual snorkel with an orange 383 4 barrel pie tin and a turquoise painted motor but it sounds like you have that sorted out already.

[Bad B-rad]

Yes I have the org carb,I just removed it and the intake to replace the heads, and I took a ton of photos before I started, PM me on what shots you need and I can get them to you, Not a problem.
OK so sounds like I will be buying the 383 four barrel tin, but prob use the 383 Magnum one, because its cooler sounding.LOL

And it matches the rubbers I use. HA HA!!!


It kind of sucks that just cause I got A/C I can't say "It's got a 383 Magnum."
I wonder why A/C got you 5 less HP and "regular" pie tin and paint?
You would think Chrysler would have just painted them all orange and called them all Magnums(when it came to there performance car,next to Super Bee)



I guess the cam change(from the 330hp version to the 335hp version)is more about transforming the total "attitude" of the car, then the 5 more HP you get.
That is what I gather from all the homework I have been doing. As I have never had a the 335 version just a few 330/290hp ones. So I guess the "Roadrunner/Magnum" cam is designed for more aggressive driving style and sound, then the "Grandpa 330hp cam. Again that's just from the reading and info I have uncovered not from owning or driving any of them.

[69CoronetRT]

It kind of sucks that just cause I got A/C I can't say "It's got a 383 Magnum."
I wonder why A/C got you 5 less HP and "regular" pie tin and paint?
You would think Chrysler would have just painted them all orange and called them all Magnums(when it came to there performance car,next to Super Bee)

The cam and extras got you 5 more HP. Why? Compare the CID of competitors (Ford 390, Chevy 396, AMC 390, Pontiac 400, Buick 400) I thnink you'll find the results very interesting. Basically, the 383 was the smallest of the engines listed yet carried the same HP rating as the GTO.

Plus there was only a 40 horse spread between the standard 383-4 and the 440 rated at 375 horse. Taking the RR ratings even higher than 335 would make people wonder why they should pay more for the 440.

The orange was eye candy.

[B5 Charger]

According to the literature no 1968-69 chargers were built with the 383 magnum only the 2 or 4bbl.  Although this is a subject of some debate.  My own father owned a 1968 that he swears was a 383 magnum car, pie tin and all.  His was a 383 A/C car with auto trans so who knows.

I basically need any photos of the throttle springs, kick down linkage and throttle cable mounting on the drivers side.  Wouldn't mind a picture of the correct choke as well though.  I'll shoot you a pm.

[69CoronetRT]

According to the literature no 1968-69 chargers were built with the 383 magnum only the 2 or 4bbl.  Although this is a subject of some debate.  My own father owned a 1968 that he swears was a 383 magnum car, pie tin and all.  His was a 383 A/C car with auto trans so who knows.

I basically need any photos of the throttle springs, kick down linkage and throttle cable mounting on the drivers side.  Wouldn't mind a picture of the correct choke as well though.  I'll shoot you a pm.

No 68 Chargers with Magnum.
No 69 Chargers with auto tranny and Magnum.
No 68-69 383 cars with a/c got magnums
69 Chargers with four speed and no a/c got Magnums.

[Bad B-rad]

I guess years of seeing cars at car shows, and in car mags with the wrong tin and color engine had made me think 68,69 Chargers had 383 Magnums. But like members above said, and the 1969 Dodge Charger sales brochure shows, the only Magnum engine in a Charger, was the 440 Magnum in the Charger R/T.
So for years I have been under the wrong impression about 383 Magnums in regular Chargers.
Looks like only 68,68,SuperBee's got 383 Magnums up until 1970.
I guess you live and learn.

[BLK 68 R/T]

Only the RR and Superbee got the 383 magnum in 68/69. Charger's didn't get the 383 magnum until '70. That is my understanding from everything that I have read.

[69CoronetRT]

Only the RR and Superbee got the 383 magnum in 68/69. Charger's didn't get the 383 magnum until '70. That is my understanding from everything that I have read.

Any 69 B body with manual transmission and without A/C got the 335 horse assembly.

[B5 Charger]

Where can I find the documentation on the 383 Magnum Charger info?  All my books and original literature doesn't mention it so I assumed it was an anomaly.

[Bad B-rad]

Do the 330hp 383 and the 335hp 383(Magnum/RR) engines act much different from each other?
I mean a 5 hp difference on paper almost seams like a lot of time, money and resources for them to have developed and made for that small 5 hp number,I know that's the Chrysler peak/rated number"
Maybe the Mag/RR engine has more of a "muscle car idle" and the torque curve is very different then the 330hp 383?
Any one have both engines, and know if they act much different on the street then each other?

I was very surprised to learn the 383 330hp 4bbl and the 290 2bbl version shared the same cam.

[Bad B-rad]

 

All my old books and brochures also only show 383 4bbl 330hp version in the 69 Charger, but I also for years have thought 68/69 Chargers had 383 Magnums in them,and I was wrong, so I am not the expert.LOL!!!


 

[69CoronetRT]

Where can I find the documentation on the 383 Magnum Charger info?  All my books and original literature doesn't mention it so I assumed it was an anomaly.

I'll post it later today.

[69CoronetRT]

Do the 330hp 383 and the 335hp 383(Magnum/RR) engines act much different from each other?
I mean a 5 hp difference on paper almost seams like a lot of time, money and resources for them to have developed and made for that small 5 hp number,I know that's the Chrysler peak/rated number"
Maybe the Mag/RR engine has more of a "muscle car idle" and the torque curve is very different then the 330hp 383?
Any one have both engines, and know if they act much different on the street then each other?

I was very surprised to learn the 383 330hp 4bbl and the 290 2bbl version shared the same cam.

Go back to my post of 5/17.

Look at the other cars that the RR was positioned against. The GTO at 400 cubes was rated at 335. Imho....it was market positioning, NOT actual output.

How can you release a new car against the GTO with your standard station wagon mill? You have to have some sizzle and make it special. A little of this a little of that and Voila. A "new, special engine". It's pretty standard marketing. If you can have a smaller engine with the same HP rating as the class leader, isn't that a good thing?

Plus, the 440HP was rated at 375. You have to have some spread in your own HP offerings otherwise you'd cut into your own sales. You can't have a 440 rated at 350 or 375 horse and release a 383 rated at 350/360 horse.

[Nacho-RT74]

where I have read this ? LOL

[Bad B-rad]

Look at the other cars that the RR was positioned against. The GTO at 400 cubes was rated at 335. Imho....it was market positioning, NOT actual output.

How can you release a new car against the GTO with your standard station wagon mill? You have to have some sizzle and make it special. A little of this a little of that and Voila. A "new, special engine". It's pretty standard marketing. If you can have a smaller engine with the same HP rating as the class leader, isn't that a good thing?


I understand completely what you are saying and agree. I was just asking how different did the two motors act compared to each other.
(If they both idle the same, run the same times 0-60 and 1/4, same fuel mileage, then what is the real word difference)

The muscle car wars(60-70's) were WAY over by the time I came on to this earth,and I don't read up much on GM or Ford products,so I don't know, about what cars they were taking on.
I have only had the 383 330hp and a 383 2bbl, I never had a 383 Magnum/RoadRunner engine.(I have had a lot of other Mopar engines, big and smallblocks ,but only those 383's)
I have read lots of stuff on the making of the Roadrunner and how they added the hood and the "unique" engine to set it apart from "your fathers Belvidere". I understand that.

I was just asking for first hand experience of the two engines, I am just curious.

[B5 Charger]

I know the only difference between the 383 2bbl and the 383 magnum was the cam, valve springs, exhaust manifolds and pistons.  The magnum cam was of course more aggressive, the springs were heavy duty to deal with the aggressive cam, the manifolds were the tall HP design and the pistons were flat topped to raise the compression vs. the dished pistons on the 2bbl model.  That's in 1969 anyway.  I know this because I have my original 383 2bbl that I want to look like an original 383 4bbl that I'm building to 383 magnum specs.  Those are the only differences I found.  I would guess the 4bbl model had flat top pistons and a cam that performed somewhere between the 2bbl cam and the magnum cam.  I've had people claim the 4bbl and magnum were the same motor just painted and topped with different pie tins.  I've never seen any proof of this so my guess is there was some difference between the two.   

[69CoronetRT]

Where can I find the documentation on the 383 Magnum Charger info?  All my books and original literature doesn't mention it so I assumed it was an anomaly.

Which assembly a car received depended, mainly, on two factors. The transmission and whether or not the car had A/C. The application determined which assembly the car received. The application changes year to year. What applied in 68 was not the same as 1969 and 1970 was different yet. So do not try to use info from 1968 on a 1970 car. What assemblies were built each year changed.


For 1969, the engine assembly received a three digit code. The engine assembly code is found on the broadcast sheet and also the fender tag of a car built at the Lynch road plant. The 383-4bbl 335 horse assembly for a B body four speed non A/C car was code 925.

The broadcast sheets below show a Super Bee (yes I know it's an A12 6bbl sheet but a BS for an A12 Bee still shows engine assembly code 925 for the engine. This was probably one of the better sheets showing 925 when I put the collage together). It also shows an XP Charger and an RP Sport Satellite. All code E63 (383-4) and D21 (four speed) All show the same engine assembly of 925. The orange 335 horse assembly.

A factory wants as much standardization as possible. Based on sales numbers, producing a 330 horse and a 335 horse four speed non A/C assembly would have been a bit of overkill. It would have been just as easy to put the 335 horse in all B body four speed non A/C cars, instead of limiting it to the RR and SB, than to assemble a new 330 horse four speed assembly.


Other assembly codes for 1969:

926 = 383 335 horse for automatic transmission and no A/C (Road Runner and Super Bee only)

897 = 383-4bbl 330 horse for four speed and A/C
899 = 383-4bbl 330 horse for automatic and A/C
900 = 383-4bbl 330 horse for automatic and no A/C

[Bronzedodge]

I'll chime in here - Brad, my 69 is a two owner 383 4 bbl A/C auto car.  I've known the car all my life, rode in it at 9 yrs old.  It was untouched when I bought it in '96.  The 383 is turquoise, has HP exhaust manifolds, and the unsilenced air cleaner.  Factory Holley carb.  I'll post some pics in a bit.