Choosing an engine to build

[chargerbr549]

An option if you are going to a 440 based stroker is the indy dual plane manifold, it flows very well and will fit under the hood much easier than a performer rpm manfold.

[justcruisin]

Trapping at 120 will put you in the mid 11 second range. That's getting some steam up for a 4200lb car, not sure what the strength is with a lock up converter and OD. You will most probably need a hole in your hood with either the B or RB if you want a good manifold, you might want to factor in the cost of a power bulge hood. My 71 has about 3/4" under the power bulge hood with a edelbrock RPM, 1/2" spacer, 3/4 drop base cleaner on a 440.

[pipeliner]

Ok, talked to a pro engine builder today. He builds engines for a local restorer, and he is recommended by some people in the local Mopar club. First thing I did was explain what I have. Then what I want, which is to outrun the the next GT, RT, SS or whatever comes up. My goal is to run a mid 12's quarter. We discussed what RPM the engine would have to spin up to with the 3.91 gears to get me through the traps at around 120 MPH. He said this engine will get me to 6000 RPM where I need to be with no problem.

He suggests a stroker big block. It can cruise in the St Patricks day parade with 110° heat with the AC on, and run 12's in the quarter.

His build would be for a complete engine, oil pan to carb. Dyno tested and tuned, and I can watch.

Hydraulic roller cam and valve train
10.5 ish compression ratio to run on pump gas
Trick Flow heads
Pro form or Holley 850 carb

He said using a 400 or 440 block is about the same regarding price and power output. The B engine would make fitting it under my hood much easier. Although the RB may have the air cleaner stick up through the hood which is very cool. Pros and cons to a B or RB build?

His price is going to be in the $8500 range, give or take. That sounds fantastic.

You are not going to build a roller stroker motor for $8500 with Trick Flow heads lol. Might as well forget that. Helll just do a quick figure on some of the parts which I might be wrong on some of them. Stroker kit $2200, heads $2000. There $4200, almost half of the build. Carb $600, intake $300, roller cam set up $1000. There's $6100 . Roller Rockers- $500-1000.  Some stuff I can't remember the price, pushrods, time n chain, water pump, oil pump, fuel pump, distributor wires and plugs set up, Headers, valve covers, air breather set up, motor mounts, 6 qt. Oil pan and all of the gaskets. Are you going to need a new radiator set up for it, electric Fans??? Are you sure he is a professional because he just quoted you a price he can't back up unless he's doing half of the motor.

[Paul G]

You are not going to build a roller stroker motor for $8500 with Trick Flow heads lol. Might as well forget that. Helll just do a quick figure on some of the parts which I might be wrong on some of them. Stroker kit $2200, heads $2000. There $4200, almost half of the build. Carb $600, intake $300, roller cam set up $1000. There's $6100 . Roller Rockers- $500-1000.  Some stuff I can't remember the price, pushrods, time n chain, water pump, oil pump, fuel pump, distributor wires and plugs set up, Headers, valve covers, air breather set up, motor mounts, 6 qt. Oil pan and all of the gaskets. Are you going to need a new radiator set up for it, electric Fans??? Are you sure he is a professional because he just quoted you a price he can't back up unless he's doing half of the motor.

$8500 is just the engine estimate. And yes there is a lot more involved in the swap. Radiator, engine mounts, headers, front drive, Ultra Bell, and probably do something about a hood that wont close. Several thousand more just for the conversion.

[Paul G]

Trapping at 120 will put you in the mid 11 second range. That's getting some steam up for a 4200lb car, not sure what the strength is with a lock up converter and OD. You will most probably need a hole in your hood with either the B or RB if you want a good manifold, you might want to factor in the cost of a power bulge hood. My 71 has about 3/4" under the power bulge hood with a edelbrock RPM, 1/2" spacer, 3/4 drop base cleaner on a 440.

How accurate are these online calculators? https://robrobinette.com/et.htm

Car weight:
* 4100

Wheel horsepower

* Flywheel horsepower

Horsepower:
* 500

>>Calculate<<

60 Foot Elapsed Time =
1.726341656785022

1/8 Mile Elapsed Time =
7.870506231699916

1/4 Mile Elapsed Time =
12.351917910992238

1/4 Mile Trap Speed =
122.02395287615376

[pipeliner]

You are not going to build a roller stroker motor for $8500 with Trick Flow heads lol. Might as well forget that. Helll just do a quick figure on some of the parts which I might be wrong on some of them. Stroker kit $2200, heads $2000. There $4200, almost half of the build. Carb $600, intake $300, roller cam set up $1000. There's $6100 . Roller Rockers- $500-1000.  Some stuff I can't remember the price, pushrods, time n chain, water pump, oil pump, fuel pump, distributor wires and plugs set up, Headers, valve covers, air breather set up, motor mounts, 6 qt. Oil pan and all of the gaskets. Are you going to need a new radiator set up for it, electric Fans??? Are you sure he is a professional because he just quoted you a price he can't back up unless he's doing half of the motor.

$8500 is just the engine estimate. And yes there is a lot more involved in the swap. Radiator, engine mounts, headers, front drive, Ultra Bell, and probably do something about a hood that wont close. Several thousand more just for the conversion.

Dont forget a new Harmonic Balancer and While your at consider redoing you gear box/ upgrading and the power steering pump and adding AC unless you already have it. Got to love it lol

[justcruisin]

I don't know about calculators but what I do know is my car is the same as yours - well similar, and it traps at 111/112 MPH and runs mid 12's @ 4150lbs. Probably run quicker if it was set up right.

[Paul G]

My car right now runs a best 14.9 at 98 MPH in the quarter. The calculator I used above says my car making 290 flywheel HP should run 14.7 at 102. Not far off. 

[Challenger340]

$8,500 including things like a Stroker Kit, Roller Cam/Lifters/Rockers/Pushrods and of course the Tick Flow Heads ? .... IMO, just does not leave much(if any) room for the application of quality Labor you want applied internal of the Engine ?

~ $2,000. Trick Flow Heads
~     $90. Head Bolts for above
~ $2,200. 440 Source Stroker Kit
~   $500. Hyd Roller Lifters (Comp)
~   $325. Hyd Roller Cam
~    $30. Thicker Timing Cover for Roller Cam Thrust
~   $700. Roller Rocker Arms (Something OK for the Roller Pressures)
~   $180. Pushrods (Again, something OK for the Roller)
~   $150. 6 qt Oil Pan & Pickup ('El Cheapo, but it will work)
~    $50. Stroker Windage Tray
~   $175. T/Chain & Gears W/Thrust provision for Roller
~   $100. Oil Pump
~   $150. Bronze Dizzy Gear & hardened Oil Pump Drive (if Billet Cam material on the Roller Cam)
~     $70. Main Studs (Good Idea for Stroker)
~   $175. Various Gasket, Fel-Pro 1009 Head(2) Etc.,  and remainder to Assemble Engine Including Intake Pan, etc.
~   $100. Harmonic Balancer
~    $30. Oil Pan Bolts, T/Cover, V/Cover & Intake Bolts
~   $300. Intake Manifold
~   $125. Valve Covers / Baffles / Breather.
~     $40.  Cam Brgs, Frost Plugs, Dizzy Bushing
_____________________________________
~  $7,500.  and I haven't even started trying to Check or Machine anything properly ?

Or start buying Distributor, Wires, Plugs, Flexplate, and a whole host of misc things ?

What about including even the basics in Block/Stroker prep:
Hot-Tank & Mag
Boring any Honing     Torque Plate ?
Milling the Block square ?
Check/Line Hone as Req'd for the Main Studs ?
**** and I haven't even started getting into stuff that should be done here ?

just say'in here......
and my apologies for raining on the parade Paul, but $8,500 just don't seem anywhere even close to "right" to me ?

[pipeliner]

$8,500 including things like a Stroker Kit, Roller Cam/Lifters/Rockers/Pushrods and of course the Tick Flow Heads ? .... IMO, just does not leave much(if any) room for the application of quality Labor you want applied internal of the Engine ?

~ $2,000. Trick Flow Heads
~     $90. Head Bolts for above
~ $2,200. 440 Source Stroker Kit
~   $500. Hyd Roller Lifters (Comp)
~   $325. Hyd Roller Cam
~    $30. Thicker Timing Cover for Roller Cam Thrust
~   $700. Roller Rocker Arms (Something OK for the Roller Pressures)
~   $180. Pushrods (Again, something OK for the Roller)
~   $150. 6 qt Oil Pan & Pickup ('El Cheapo, but it will work)
~    $50. Stroker Windage Tray
~   $175. T/Chain & Gears W/Thrust provision for Roller
~   $100. Oil Pump
~   $150. Bronze Dizzy Gear & hardened Oil Pump Drive (if Billet Cam material on the Roller Cam)
~     $70. Main Studs (Good Idea for Stroker)
~   $175. Various Gasket, Fel-Pro 1009 Head(2) Etc.,  and remainder to Assemble Engine Including Intake Pan, etc.
~   $100. Harmonic Balancer
~    $30. Oil Pan Bolts, T/Cover, V/Cover & Intake Bolts
~   $300. Intake Manifold
~   $125. Valve Covers / Baffles / Breather.
~     $40.  Cam Brgs, Frost Plugs, Dizzy Bushing
_____________________________________
~  $7,500.  and I haven't even started trying to Check or Machine anything properly ?

Or start buying Distributor, Wires, Plugs, Flexplate, and a whole host of misc things ?

What about including even the basics in Block/Stroker prep:
Hot-Tank & Mag
Boring any Honing     Torque Plate ?
Milling the Block square ?
Check/Line Hone as Req'd for the Main Studs ?
**** and I haven't even started getting into stuff that should be done here ?

just say'in here......
and my apologies for raining on the parade Paul, but $8,500 just don't seem anywhere even close to "right" to me ?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Its gets him in the door and cornered after the engine is apart and parts ordered when the shop calls and says.... by the way, its gonna be another 3500 to finish it ....

[Nacho-RT74]

Wow, the decisions. From small blocks to big block strokers with stealth heads 😂

Yes, it is overwhelming. Especially for a guy like me who over analyzes.

defintelly!!! LOL

[Nacho-RT74]

He said using a 400 or 440 block is about the same regarding price and power output. The B engine would make fitting it under my hood much easier. Although the RB may have the air cleaner stick up through the hood which is very cool. Pros and cons to a B or RB build?

Honestly ? maybe I'm byassed being a 400 owner, but the fact a B and an RB gets the same coolness view on engine bay ( hard to tell if you don't know about these blocks ), and you can get easilly the power you are expecting from a B block, being also lighter than an RB and the bigger bore... maybe I will stick on a B block, even more a 400.

but, that's just me

I have at this moment a 448 ( 400 @ 0.020 same than a 440 @ 0.042 overbore, the famous 451 but not based on the 400 @ 033 overbore, hence is not exactly the 451 ) into my 400 and nobody tells what I got...


https://youtu.be/wrZo8-7uvDs

( iddle was a bit higher than it should )

10.2 CR aprox and running AC without problems... pure stock look.

but haven't taken to a dyno to really know what I have, I simply built and enjoy

[justcruisin]

Maybe ask the guy for an itemised written quote (presuming a sound workable block).

[Paul G]

Maybe ask the guy for an itemised written quote (presuming a sound workable block).

That will be coming. It is the first step in the build process. That will determine if the written cost is the same as the "about" cost.

[Paul G]

$8,500 including things like a Stroker Kit, Roller Cam/Lifters/Rockers/Pushrods and of course the Tick Flow Heads ? .... IMO, just does not leave much(if any) room for the application of quality Labor you want applied internal of the Engine ?


just say'in here......
and my apologies for raining on the parade Paul, but $8,500 just don't seem anywhere even close to "right" to me ?

I agree, and was a little surprised with that number when he stated it on the phone. And he is supplying the block to build.

What is normal? Say a guy walks in to a shop and asks for a price to build him an engine. Is it normal to put down on paper exactly what is going to be built and state a firm price? Or is it normal to estimate the cost and actually do the work on time and material?

I can see it done both ways. Shops sell complete crate engines for a set price every day.

[Challenger340]

$8,500 including things like a Stroker Kit, Roller Cam/Lifters/Rockers/Pushrods and of course the Tick Flow Heads ? .... IMO, just does not leave much(if any) room for the application of quality Labor you want applied internal of the Engine ?


just say'in here......
and my apologies for raining on the parade Paul, but $8,500 just don't seem anywhere even close to "right" to me ?

I agree, and was a little surprised with that number when he stated it on the phone. And he is supplying the block to build.

What is normal? Say a guy walks in to a shop and asks for a price to build him an engine. Is it normal to put down on paper exactly what is going to be built and state a firm price? Or is it normal to estimate the cost and actually do the work on time and material?

I can see it done both ways. Shops sell complete crate engines for a set price every day.

IMO, I think it is quite "normal" and should be expected to receive a firm quotation regarding Parts/Pricing on any new build where the builder is supplying everything ?
The only intangibles should pertain around parts customer supplied if that's the case.... or in the case of currency exchange on parts that can fluctuate widely if you are in Canada(which you are not).
just say'in....
Where you are in the U.S(no currency/parts price fluctuations)..... and if the builder has experience with these types of builds.... a detailed Parts/Labor pricing to completion should not be an issue (IMO).
With one caveat though.... LOTS of time and discussion to coming up with EXACTLY what you want in expectations first, THEN... quote the build that satisfies those expectations. and of course always inclusive through to Dyno'd, PROVEN... and DONE, before it leaves !

The problem with Crate Engines, IMO, is who in the heck has the time to build them nowadays ?
NOT knocking them, I see some very reputable Shops selling them, just saying that they must be superman to find time, or they must be "cancellations" by Customers moving in another direction maybe ? who knows ?

[c00nhunterjoe]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,116008.new/boardseen.html#new