Back to 2005 prices ?

[charger_fan_4ever]

Is it me or have 2nd gens taken a big boost in price past couple years ?

Up here in canauk land i saw a few r/t's 440 cars priced 76-80k. I assumed once again just canadian prices. Looking in the states see quite a few 60k for r/t badge which puts the price on par with what im seeing up here.

Have to wonder if they are actually selling for this?

Looked at the haggerty appraiser

#1 74k for a 70 r/t 440 car
#2 59K

Id assume #1 is #'s match and oem restoration and paint blobs date codes plug wires ect.

[Mike DC]

12 years ago they were artificially high because of the economic bubbles.

Now the dollar inflation has made prices gradually catch up with those numbers.

 

[Challenger340]

Forget Ebag ads...
You have to access actual auction sales, Hemmings, etc.
The recent sales I have been privy to, would tend to support the astronomical prices being paid for "originals", those being defined as UN-touched or as UN-redone as possible(some repaints only) and still in good condition, and pulling the high dollars right up with the #1 example concourse level restorations.

IMO,
a symptom of excess money looking for investments, or anything collectible for that matter, to hold relative value in uncertain global markets devoid of yield, that many feel will inevitably result in inflation ?
I mean look at the U.S. Debt ?
What here..... $8-$9 Trillion 10 years ago ?
And today barely 9 years later somewhere north of $19-$20 Trillion ?  and climbing ?

What would you do with $50K ? $60K ? $70K ? even $100K ?
Stock market ? it's at record highs already with P.E.'s out to lunch
Bonds ? The Bond Market is so distorted even trader's can't accurately valuate.
Deposit it in a GIC in a Bank for safety and get what ? 1% ?      1.5% ?  Even on $70K at 1.5 % you might get $87.50 Bucks a month to pay TAX on.... meanwhile although the $70K is safe.... it's buying power in a few years might be HALF of what it was before ?

Just say'in here....

Why not buy a collectible you can DRIVE and ENJOY.... and probably still hold it's value in the future relative to everything else ?

[Aero426]

The elephant in the room is the average age of the American muscle car owner.   Most of us are now over 50. Many of those owners have the intent of "cashing out" down the road.   The day of reckoning where supply of the more common cars will increase relative to demand is approaching. 

[sean257]

It seems like collector car values went down with the market in 2008.  If you're worried about the stock market being too hot, it would seem that the car market is pretty hot also.  That being said, owning a kick ass car is more fun.

[Mike DC]

    

The elephant in the room is the average age of the American muscle car owner.   Most of us are now over 50. Many of those owners have the intent of "cashing out" down the road.   The day of reckoning where supply of the more common cars will increase relative to demand is approaching.

I look at these things as a possible canary in the mine.

Stock 1st-gen Mustang convertibles.  The first wave of baby boomers loves them.  They have been preserved by the thousands.  

But the Fast & Furious generation has far less interest. (1967/68 fastbacks are a different story.)  It seems like a ripe set of conditions for a big loss of value.  

[Aero426]

The one thing muscle cars have going for them is that they look good.  They are cars that can be used and are relatively simple to repair.   The question is, where is the next generation of buyers going to come from, and at what price?    Right now, there isn't a shortage of buyers.    But I sense we have seen most of the growth we are going to see.   

[Challenger340]

The elephant in the room is the average age of the American muscle car owner.   Most of us are now over 50. Many of those owners have the intent of "cashing out" down the road.   The day of reckoning where supply of the more common cars will increase relative to demand is approaching.  

Agreed and well noted  
That "elephant in the room" age demographic, IMO, has been painfully obvious for quite some time, yet thus far has failed to substantially materialize as a drop off in demand to lower price support.

All one has to do is go look around at pretty much any Car Show, Show-N-Shine or Cruise nowadays, wherein to me anyways.... it becomes very obvious that the predominantly aging demographic of Ownership around these Cars ? should point to a coming increase in available examples for resale ?
It a nutshell..... IMO, it is a dying off Car Class demographic which should increase supply..... lowering demand and prices.

If not for the speculative investment side of demand in these unstable financial times, IMO, we would have already seen price declines.

[NCMopar]

Overall, the insane prices we saw for E-bodies and some B-bodies were just that, insane and the market adjusted back, as it always does. Of course, low production "special" cars will always carry a premium, but there's something so unique about these 2nd gen Chargers (not just saying this because I own one and am posting on this board). We all know it and it's evident when people see them. As much as I couldn't care less about the F&F movies, it has opened them up to a new generation of fans and I don't think you can discount that as part of the bump in prices on these cars. I heard the same thing when I owned Turbo Buicks. I had no idea that they were in those movies, but every 20 year old would run up to me and the GNs I owned and start talking to me about seeing one in F&F. Then I found out all the move cars had small block Chevys in them. Makes sense from a movie schedule/production standpoint, but damn...

Mine is not an investment, it's a means of escape. It was built the way I wanted and will be used the way I intend. Is it valuable? To me, it's nearly priceless. I don't really care what someone thinks it worth or whether or not they agree with how it's built. Could I have actually invested the money in something else? Sure, but then I couldn't leave two black strips of rubber. I'm definitely in the minority on this, but that's OK with me.


Regards,
John

[Mike DC]

 
2nd-gen Chargers are expensive and will remain so for decades.  The Hollywood effect is real.  It's gonna make a big difference whether some of the hobby's elders want to respect it or not.  And style-wise, the cars have just aged better than many 1960s cars.   

There is no lack of demand for stuff like 1st-gen Mustangs but there is a big lack of money among people younger than the baby boomers.  The younger they are, the less money they have on average, and I mean beyond just the direct effect of ages.

[gaust024]

One of the younger guys here, just wanted to add my opinion. There was definitely some impact that the Fast and Furious movies had on me when it comes to Chargers, but I've also been researching these cars since I was in high school. Most of the people I know that are my age (24), don't really have an interest in old muscle cars because of A, the price associated with them, and B, the skills needed for the restoration part. Since you guys on this forum are older, you know these cars a lot better than us young kids do, and you also have the skills needed to restore them, partly because you guys grew up in a different era.

In my opinion, I don't think there will be an increased demand for these cars by millennials like myself (at the moment). We like the F&F movies, but generally lack the skills and knowledge. Most kids my age are also in a lot of student debt and working entry level jobs, and restoring an old muscle car will probably be last on the list, so there are obviously financial issues as well.

However, I think there will be a resurgence of interest in these cars as we get older and become more financially stable. I just don't think it will be as much as the previous generations of folks.  

I think after the next market correction people will have to resort to selling these cars cheaper or holding onto them because there simply won't be a lot of people looking to purchase an expensive Charger in an economic downturn. As for myself, I'll keep looking and waiting to snag a good deal on one of these cars since the prices are pretty high.

Until then I'll just keep drooling over all of your guys' photos! 

[richf]

As another young guy (21) my opinion is that yes, a lot of people my age do not have the means to work on a classic car, financially, or skillwise.  However, there are people my age who do have mechanical skills but cannot afford the desirable cars, for example, my friend has a thing for 1967-1969 Barracudas, but he settled for a 69 D100 because it was much cheaper.  What I'm trying to say is that the desire to own these cars is there, and eventually, perhaps ten years, I'd expect the value on these cars to take a slight hit, as the demand will take a slight hit. I'm just proud I found a deal on a Charger and own one at my young age!

[ht4spd307]

aussie muscle aint slowing down

https://www.motormag.com.au/news/1703/holden-muscle-dominates-classic-car-auctions

[73rallye440magnum]

29 here, so perhaps spoken in a context of wishful thinking.

Nearly nobody my age wants an old car. My opinion early muscle car saturation will be observed within ten years.  I want in before that, but keep pampering the Mopars for me.

Here is a somewhat dated link with limited statistics but statements of trends.

https://news.classiccars.com/2016-top-stories-1-demographic-shift-churns-marketplace/

Hagerty muscle car index is holding strong, but what's interesting about that is it follows high pedigree.

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/market-trends/collector-indexes/Muscle_Cars

Part of the foundation of my argument regarding muscle cars is resonated within the commentary on the 1950s American index on the drop down tab on the Hagerty link. I have worked on many of the cars on the 50s index over the years, and they are all absolutely beautiful, but interest is waning.