1970 Charger Newbie, looking for deals on Ebay.

[gaust024]

Hey guys, I just joined this forum and I've been wanting to get into car restoration for a while now. The 1970 Dodge Charger is my favorite muscle car, but they are also more expensive to restore. I guess I'm just asking for advice as to how I should go about restoring my first car. A little bit of background first, I'm 24, haven't restored a car, but I'm driven to learn how, my mentor can teach me how to weld as he has done lots of welding in the past and has tons of equipment and tools, I've been out of college for 2 years so I've got some money saved up (living back at home has its perks). I've been keeping a Excel spreadsheet of the 70 Chargers that have sold on Ebay for the past few months. My ballpark budget would be from 5-8 thousand for a starter body, and there have been some that sold around the 6,000 dollar mark. They show the typical rust and some are missing a bunch of parts, but I wouldn't be afraid of learning how to weld and repair all the sheet metal.

Another big concern of mine is the availability of parts, especially when it comes to the engine. Ideally my dream Charger would have a 383 or 440, so I'd like to hear some thoughts on the availability of these engines. Could I find an old one relatively easily and rebuild it? How much would it cost to rebuild an old Mopar 1966-1970 engine. Ideally I would like to find a car with the engine included, instead of trying to track one down.

So, I'm just trying to get a feel for how much a restoration would cost for me. I would be willing to commit time learning how to weld, so I could save money on all of the body work. So that leaves the rest of the car and locating all of the parts, which will cost a lot of money :/

I've also attached some pics of some of the Chargers that I've been researching on Ebay. How much would it take (on average) to restore one of these bad boys?

[gaust024]

Uploading pictures is a hassle, so I'll just copy the links to the Ebay postings. Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Charger-318-car-/262965947172?hash=item3d39fdeb24%3Ag%3Aa8IAAOSwnONZCk90&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=WuKQVC3t52r8l7yErhdw5FM2qHI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Charger-500-SE-/302297543228?hash=item466256723c%3Ag%3AEh0AAOSwlndZAgZL&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=WuKQVC3t52r8l7yErhdw5FM2qHI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Charger-Base-/332177762331?hash=item4d5756681b%3Ag%3AW9QAAOSw%7ECFY6Si5&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=WuKQVC3t52r8l7yErhdw5FM2qHI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[JR]

"Restore" is a broad term to a lot of different people.

Do you mean a fast and furious style build with gutted interior, or a perfectly accurate 100 point restoration?

You could probably build a Toretto style 70 in the neighborhood of 35-40 grand if you're doing ALL the work yourself and aren't chasing down expensive odd and end pieces. Maaaayybe 25k if you'd be happy with a primer black paint job, and buy as many used swap meet parts as possible. And that's a BIG maybe.

A proper original restoration can run upwards of 100k, it really depends how far you want to go.

What's your end goal for the car? How nice do you want it to be?

Answering that can help us point you in the right direction.

[charger_fan_4ever]

any 68-70 charger for 6k plan on investing $10,000 in AMD metal.
If having work done at a shop figure easily another 10k in metal and body work.
Interior 5k
drivetrain 5-8k
suspension/brakes/steering/exhaust 3k
chrome/trim 1-3k
grill restoration $1k plus
weather stripping & misc parts 2k


With purchase price and doing all the work yourself it would be hard to make it a turn key under 4-45k and thats assuming the car is complete to start with.

Advice

save another 7k. The ones you listed are parts cars(with not many good parts left)

projects with rust free bodys or close to it sell near 20k.

Oh and if the said car(1970) is missing a front fender or hood forget finding a good rust free one. I looked for years had to fix what i had.

We replaced pretty much every piece of sheet metal on my 70. Its a long process.

my 5k project car(parts car) cost about 20k to get to a rustfree shell.

[crj1968]

Personally I wouldn't even bother with a car with that much rust....at any price.
That "typical" rust runs deep on those you pictured. you could have 20K easy in just getting the body worked out, (before paint) and then there's interior, suspension, engine trans, exhaust...etc...etc..


I paid 15K for my 70 as a roller (a rare deal in the shape it's in) ....with the engine and trans included (but not installed) Thankfully the interior was good.

Rearend work, brakes, suspension exhaust, and all the crazy small parts have set me back at least another $5K. Car runs and drives great now, but I haven't even got to body work yet.
Rust is minimal on mine, but I am looking at 10K for a decent "driver quality" finish.  
So what's that $30K?...not bad for a car that would probably sell for the same, not talking a factory correct restoration here, just getting the car working well and looking half way decent.


IMHO you are MUCH better off saving up and buying $20-25K car and save money and your sanity in the long run.  

[gaust024]

The end goal for the car would be a good running driver, decent interior, and a nice coat of black paint. Nothing too fancy, I don't need to mod the engine. Honestly I would want to restore it as cheaply as possible while still doing it right. I would want it to be a head turner with a decently-built engine.

Would this be possible with a budget of 20k over a few years, buying the sheet metal and welding myself? I wouldn't want to go overboard all at once, I would rather make this a journey and keep working on the car for 5+ years.

[crj1968]

Personally I think you are looking at more like $40K starting with those $6K bodies

[JR]

Yeah, my optimistic quote of 25k is for a "Roadkill" type build with a gutted interior, and no adminities. Picture Roadkill's General Mayhem with a junkyard engine.

Like this.


What you're describing is more inline with a 40k build.

Just the bodywork costs alone to make black paint look good will be between 10-20k starting with any of the cars you have posted.

[gaust024]

Seems about right. I guess I was underestimating how much it actually costs to get the metal to look good. Rust is a huge problem with these cars, but damn they look so cool. A kid can dream, right?

What I'm thinking now is just working hard to save up some money and then buying one for 15-20k.

It would still be fun to restore it though, so I wouldn't want to lose that aspect of it.

Also, what are the costs of rebuilding a 440? Aren't they pretty hard to find nowadays?

[70 sublime]

Save up some more money to buy a better project car to start with
If this is your first try at a Charger only buy a car with the big block motor already in it
Has to have good frame rails and the proper front seats
You will be much farther ahead in the long run
Think $15000 to $20000 is where you should be looking
Good luck  

[charger_fan_4ever]

The end goal for the car would be a good running driver, decent interior, and a nice coat of black paint. Nothing too fancy, I don't need to mod the engine. Honestly I would want to restore it as cheaply as possible while still doing it right. I would want it to be a head turner with a decently-built engine.

Would this be possible with a budget of 20k over a few years, buying the sheet metal and welding myself? I wouldn't want to go overboard all at once, I would rather make this a journey and keep working on the car for 5+ years.

Black paint + nice = steller body work $$$

figure on 10 years (ask me how i know)

with 20k budget you'd need to buy lots of flat tin and start patching and buy lots of putty to contour it.


Most of us have been there done that. Never associate the word cheap to a 68-70 charger. Every time you open a parts book its $1000. Also cutting corners now on metal/body work will cost 3X more to fix down the road when you have to redo it all over.

If i had it to do over id have saved more $$ and bought a rust free body, strip it and have at it. Instead i bought a 5k parts car and put 20k into metal and metal work over about 8 years. Atleast the car will outlast me and go to my kids.

[cbrestorations]

i have a 70 that im going to be fixing and maybe selling. will be rust free with all new AMD metal and inner structure of car epoxied inside out. it will have all rebuilt suspension with new 440 leafs, rebuilt front suspension, new torsions, disc brake conversion, with stainless fuel and brake lines, new amd glass with moldings, body work done and in primer for paint. only thing missing will be drivetrain. i was gonna ask 22-23k for it. 

[whitehatspecial]

Ok so I'm going to sound like a Dad here. Hopefully you have a good career or you're on the path to one, and you have your own place or planning on buying one within the next few years.

I have 3 sons all around your age (21, 26, and 28) I'd give you the same advice I give them. Time moves really quickly and it's hard to play catch up if you don't have enough income. The old car hobby is awesome (can be expensive and time consuming) and I applaud you for your interest, especially wth Dodge Chargers. Good luck and let us know how your search goes.

[hemi-hampton]

 "Honestly I would want to restore it as cheaply as possible while still doing it right."


I used to restore cars for a living. Everybody wants it done right & cheap. two things that don't go together LEON.

[charger_fan_4ever]

i have a 70 that im going to be fixing and maybe selling. will be rust free with all new AMD metal and inner structure of car epoxied inside out. it will have all rebuilt suspension with new 440 leafs, rebuilt front suspension, new torsions, disc brake conversion, with stainless fuel and brake lines, new amd glass with moldings, body work done and in primer for paint. only thing missing will be drivetrain. i was gonna ask 22-23k for it. 

This is where its at. If its an r/t even better.

[gaust024]

First off, I want to thank everyone for the honest advice. I can tell that most people here on this forum have seen it all when it comes to Chargers, so I appreciate it. From what I've gathered from the responses and the more I've thought about restoring a '70 charger, I think that in a few years or so I'll be better off spending a little bit more initially (15-20k) and then work on the restoration from there. That way I'll have a solid, straight car to work from, which would be great.

70 sublime: That makes a lot of sense, and that price range would be awesome to start with. It would be awesome long term, too. Now I just have to keep looking for good deals in that range. Ebay and craigslist have been my go-to.

charger_fan_4ever: Good point, nothing in a 1970 Charger is cheap. Gotta get that word out of my head, but it's tough as a beginner!

cbrestorations: That sounds like a killer car, I would be interested in seeing pics of it.

whitehatspecial: Thanks for the advice, I'm in the architectural industry and the field is doing great. I want to buy my first house in the next few years and then start seriously looking for '70 chargers. My dad was the one who actually got me hooked on the old muscle cars. He had a white '75 Camaro when he was in high school, and when he showed me pictures it got me hooked.

hemi-hapton: Great point. Time to save up money. 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

any 68-70 charger for 6k plan on investing $10,000 in AMD metal.
If having work done at a shop figure easily another 10k in metal and body work.
Interior 5k
drivetrain 5-8k
suspension/brakes/steering/exhaust 3k
chrome/trim 1-3k
grill restoration $1k plus
weather stripping & misc parts 2k


With purchase price and doing all the work yourself it would be hard to make it a turn key under 4-45k and thats assuming the car is complete to start with.

Advice

save another 7k. The ones you listed are parts cars(with not many good parts left)

projects with rust free bodys or close to it sell near 20k.

Oh and if the said car(1970) is missing a front fender or hood forget finding a good rust free one. I looked for years had to fix what i had.

We replaced pretty much every piece of sheet metal on my 70. Its a long process.

my 5k project car(parts car) cost about 20k to get to a rustfree shell.

Once you figure all the costs on paper, add another 40% to get to the real cost. And this goes for any car in any condition

[70 sublime]

First off, I want to thank everyone for the honest advice. I can tell that most people here on this forum have seen it all when it comes to Chargers, so I appreciate it. From what I've gathered from the responses and the more I've thought about restoring a '70 charger, I think that in a few years or so I'll be better off spending a little bit more initially (15-20k) and then work on the restoration from there. That way I'll have a solid, straight car to work from, which would be great.

70 sublime: That makes a lot of sense, and that price range would be awesome to start with. It would be awesome long term, too. Now I just have to keep looking for good deals in that range. Ebay and craigslist have been my go-to.

charger_fan_4ever: Good point, nothing in a 1970 Charger is cheap. Gotta get that word out of my head, but it's tough as a beginner!

cbrestorations: That sounds like a killer car, I would be interested in seeing pics of it.

whitehatspecial: Thanks for the advice, I'm in the architectural industry and the field is doing great. I want to buy my first house in the next few years and then start seriously looking for '70 chargers. My dad was the one who actually got me hooked on the old muscle cars. He had a white '75 Camaro when he was in high school, and when he showed me pictures it got me hooked.

hemi-hapton: Great point. Time to save up money. 

Have you ever gone and looked at a rusty Charger for sale ?
Have you ever gone and looked at a better almost done project Charger for sale ?

You need to do both several times to get an idea of where to look and what to look for in a Charger that needs work

[smithenhiven]

I think that in a few years or so I'll be better off spending a little bit more initially (15-20k) and then work on the restoration from there. That way I'll have a solid, straight car to work from, which would be great.

Sadly, unless the current prices trends slow down, that 15-20k if a few years will just buy you that same 9k parts car today.

[cbrestorations]

thats why im buying up the cars i want now, might not be able to afford them in 10 years lol

[70 sublime]

This ad is up here in Canada and Canadian money so it is more like $10 000 US
This guy is always getting Chargers in and selling them up here


http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/city-of-toronto/1970-dodge-charger-mopar/1263125229?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Date Listed   10-May-17
Price   
$13,500.00
Address   Toronto, ON M3L2L7
View map
Make   Dodge
Model   Charger
Trim   500
Body Type   Coupe (2 door)
Year   1970
Transmission   Automatic
Kilometers   29,999
Drivetrain   Rear-wheel drive (RWD)
Fuel Type   Gasoline
For Sale By   Owner
No. of Doors   2
No. of Seats   5
Description
1970 charger factory 318 car but has 383 in it now needs trans,need full resto,white body n burnt orange interior buckets console car air car ,has two spots on rails,easy fix,very solid crossmember, nice straight bumpers front n rear, grill is very nice one fin broken but easy fix ,car has been sitting in tenn for 40 years very long time needs FULL RESTO,serious question ,not here to waste my time or yours,13500 or best offer

[GreenMachine]

   Being in your position, try and buy one you can get running and driving as is, there's always time to restore it later in life. Treat any rusted areas to prevent it from growing, give it a brake job, replace the gas tank/sender, replace the tires, make sure exterior lights work, and if you can't get the engine running, stock engine/trans are relatively cheap and plentiful.
  Once you get it on the road, next you'll probably want to rebuild the suspension, get everything working: wipers, radio, etc. Rust repairs and body/paint work can be done when time/money permit.
  I think it would be a mistake to buy one and strip it to a shell and restore being in your position.

As far as drivetrains, I bought a 1968 Chrysler with a good running 440/727 for $1300. It had quarter panel rust and frame rust. It made a perfect drivetrain donor. Going that route, you don't have to search for every little bracket and linkage to make it work. And You can sell what's left of the car for a few hundred. Trucks and motorhomes are a good source for drivetrains, but then you have to change numerous components to make it work in a car, and might become costly.

[whitehatspecial]

  Being in your position, try and buy one you can get running and driving as is, there's always time to restore it later in life. Treat any rusted areas to prevent it from growing, give it a brake job, replace the gas tank/sender, replace the tires, make sure exterior lights work, and if you can't get the engine running, stock engine/trans are relatively cheap and plentiful.
  Once you get it on the road, next you'll probably want to rebuild the suspension, get everything working: wipers, radio, etc. Rust repairs and body/paint work can be done when time/money permit.
  I think it would be a mistake to buy one and strip it to a shell and restore being in your position.

As far as drivetrains, I bought a 1968 Chrysler with a good running 440/727 for $1300. It had quarter panel rust and frame rust. It made a perfect drivetrain donor. Going that route, you don't have to search for every little bracket and linkage to make it work. And You can sell what's left of the car for a few hundred. Trucks and motorhomes are a good source for drivetrains, but then you have to change numerous components to make it work in a car, and might become costly.

What GreenMachine says is great advice!

[gaust024]

70 sublime, I saw that too on Ebay, he's got it listed for 12,500 or best offer. This is the description of the car:

"i have a 70 dodge charger been sitting a long time almost forty years car is factory dy3 off white with burnt orange interior ,car is been in tenn it is a factory 318,but someone dopped in a 383, auto buckets console car ,drum brake, air car ,car is complete minus trans other than that its all there ,need full resto floors n trunk pan normal resto but amd makes great repo parts to get it done ,interior is all there, mint dash pad ,the grill is almost perfect one small fin missing hoping to fix it before i sell but very nice grill ,straight bumpers,fender need heel patch and so on ,has two spots on the frame easy repair,crossmember is solid ,if u need more pic just ask,have the right to end auction at any time,anybody less then ten winning bids must contact me or will cancel bid,a 10 percent deposit u have 48 hours at end of the sale n no refundable buyer is responsible for his own shipping will help anyway i can"

How much do you guys think it would cost to get it up and running? It also sounds like it will need a good amount of body work. I'm thinking it's probably worth 10-11 grand, does that seem too high?

[gaust024]

"Being in your position, try and buy one you can get running and driving as is, there's always time to restore it later in life."

Green Machine, that's what I've been thinking too. I would like to buy one for a good deal if I can soon, but I just don't want to buy a parts car. I'd like to get something decent for 15k or 20k.

[charger_fan_4ever]

There is also the scenario where we look at cars and say ya thats way too much $$ i will wait it out and get a better one. 5 years goes by and that same car you saw is now 25% more $$ and in worse shape.

I think its human nature to think this way cars houses ect always seem to expensive, but then 5 years later we say damn should have bought that one.

Im not going back saying jump on that parts car and buy it, but we have to consider future costs.

People said 5 years ago or so we wont ever see the prices bounce back to pre 2008 prices. I think we are there now. I see a lot of 60k r/ts out there.

I guess what im trying to say is dont focus too hard either on getting the perfect project at perfect price. Seems to always be that we feel we are paying too much for what we are getting.

I know in 2008 when i bought my 70 r/t rust bucket i thought 5k was top price even too much, but it was the only r/t with good rails within about 8 hours driving distance. 9 years later to buy the same car be looking at 10k.

[sean257]

Last summer I bought a 70 R/T that ran with a non numbers later 440.  No body rust, and the trunk was fine.  Interior was very worn.  All total it took another $30k on top of the $15k. I did no frame work, no major drive train work. No window work except windshield.   Interior was about $8k.  Look up what the console or dash plates cost, then the shifter knob, seat foam, seat covers, little things like visors, other big dollar items like door pads...
Every piece of exterior trim will cost you dearly.  Make sure it has an in tact grill on front and the correct rear trim around the lights.  A repop grill is $3k. Luckily I had that stuff.  I wanted to find a date correct 440 as mine wasn't very fast, but I figured that would set me back another $5k or more.

Also the more rare it is will help you recover some of your money when you decide to sell it.  It would cost about the same money to restore a base 318 car as it would an R/T but the R/T will be worth a lot more.  I got lucky on that one...

While you're waiting you could always pick up an 80's/90's car for $5-10k to play with in the meanwhile.  They seem to be on the upswing value wise so you may be able to learn a bit a make some money on it towards your Charger as you continue to save.

[charger_fan_4ever]

 It would cost about the same money to restore a base 318 car as it would an R/T but the R/T will be worth a lot more.  I got lucky on that one...

Very good point.

Imo when looking at a basket case that needs it all i wouldnt even consider a non r/t as Sean mentioned it costs the same to restore the exterior/interior where the bulk of the $$ is spent.

[gaust024]

chargerfan_4_ever: good point, hadn't thought about that. In the long run the R/T would definitely be worth it.

[70 sublime]

I think at this point in time you buy what you can find in the condition you are looking for if one pops up
Most always feel they have paid too much to get their car but a few years later looking at the prices of the day you will feel good with what you ended up with

You can always work on a Charger and sell it off at a later date to trade up to an R/T
The R/T will most likely cost more in the future but the car you could have now should also be worth more

Also being your first Charger it would be better to learn some skills on a less valuable car and work your way up to the good stuff later 

[crj1968]

I think at this point in time you buy what you can find in the condition you are looking for if one pops up

I agree, it's not like looking for a 65 mustang coupe, you will only have so many opportunities.

Get with the local Mopar clubs in your area and start asking around. You'd be surprised what stuff people have stashed away that they may let go..many of these cars switch hands through friends (trades) and word of mouth.

Some people just don't bother with craigslist and ebay etc...

[gaust024]

That's true, from what I've seen there are a lot more Camaros and Mustangs around. I think what I'm going to do now is keep looking for Chargers, but I want to meet up to see people's Chargers here in Minnesota. That will give me better first hand experience rather than looking stuff up online.

[darbgnik]

i have a 70 that im going to be fixing and maybe selling. will be rust free with all new AMD metal and inner structure of car epoxied inside out. it will have all rebuilt suspension with new 440 leafs, rebuilt front suspension, new torsions, disc brake conversion, with stainless fuel and brake lines, new amd glass with moldings, body work done and in primer for paint. only thing missing will be drivetrain. i was gonna ask 22-23k for it. 

Now this is a car to start with. Make no mistake, there will still be plenty of "project" left by buying this one, but it will all be doable, with most any skill set. One of those rusted hulks for 5 grand might get you all the pieces that are hard to find, and nickel and dime you to death.

[Laowho]

i have a 70 that im going to be fixing and maybe selling. will be rust free with all new AMD metal and inner structure of car epoxied inside out. it will have all rebuilt suspension with new 440 leafs, rebuilt front suspension, new torsions, disc brake conversion, with stainless fuel and brake lines, new amd glass with moldings, body work done and in primer for paint. only thing missing will be drivetrain. i was gonna ask 22-23k for it. 

Now this is a car to start with. Make no mistake, there will still be plenty of "project" left by buying this one, but it will all be doable, with most any skill set. One of those rusted hulks for 5 grand might get you all the pieces that are hard to find, and nickel and dime you to death.

What I was gonna say, especially if you follow his work here. That, then fit it any way you like. Won't find better work for less. The chance to rotisserie this car is nirvana, and buying ours mostly completed didn't allow us this, so I'll be spending lotsa time on my back. Follow the various builds here, see who did what, and consider what level of work/restoration you're talking. With a CB body, you have nuthin to consider other than your moving bits. Nice.

[whitehatspecial]

May be something here that would work for someone.

https://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/6122150916.html

[fastmark]

Find the most rust free body you can find. Borrow money if you have to. Get an RT. I live in Texas so I'm used to rust free cars. You will spend MORE in the long run fixing a rusty car. They all need new motors and interior unless they are freshly restored. Look up Charger-bodie's thread on the B 7 car I sold him and ask him if buying that rust free car was worth it. He replaces sheet metal for a living. I think these Chargers will continue to rise in value for the foreseeable future. I paid $13,000 in  07 for my rust free 70 RT. That was top dollar. I think I can make some money on it now😎