Impressions on the new Dodge Demon?

[Q5XX29]

All it needs is a lift off hood, and it's 1969 and a half all over again.

Should have been called the Hellcat A12..........

Reminds me more of the radical hurst Hemi Darts/Barracudas...  but I totally get your point.

[RCCDrew]

Even though the capabilities of both cars are certainly beyond my abilities as a driver, I'd be more likely to want a Hellcat. Better handling while still very fast!

Interesting quote I read:

Dodge's assertion that the Demon isn't just a drag racer. Its braking and roadholding capabilities are far superior to most cars on the road today, according to Dodge brand boss Tim Kuniskis, who says that it has the ability to pull a supercar-like 1.00 g on the skidpad and come to a stop from 60 mph in less than 100 feet, a feat that very few cars in the world can achieve.

[tcs69rt]

I guess I was expecting too much when looking at all the old MOPARS we love. The name Demon screams A-Body car to me, with a FAST 340 so I was expecting a whole new car based upon the original, not upgrades to a Challenger which we all know were E-Body cars. I guess I should be happy that it was not made into a 4 door like the Charger. 

[darbgnik]

Viper.....big clumsy GT car......way too big,  heavy and lumbering to ever be considered a sports car. Not for me! Over here it even races in GT rather than sports class....and gets its ass kicked every time! Sports cars are light powerful and above all agile (IMO!)...the viper is only one of those. . It could just be the differences in what the US and Euro residents consider a Sports car. Thinking about it I cant really think of any true US sports cars.....no....going very fast in a straight line is NOT a sports car!

EDIT: Just seen a Top Gear test in the new 700 plus horse Ford GT....that's a proper American sports car! Even if the purists are saying it should be V8!

Not to start an argument, but you've obviously never sat in a Viper to call it a GT car, lol. There is absolutely no room inside them to grand tour anywhere. I've owned a couple, and have a 2015 now. Mine tips the scales at 3290 pounds, you honestly think that's heavy in modern sportcar terms? It's also shorter than a Porsche 911. Sure the proportions make it look huge, but it is actually a very small car. Even the base model is in the top 10 production lap times at Laguna Seca. I've raced there competitively, and there are corners I assure you. The Viper ACR, has the exact same suspension design, drivetrain, and chassis as every Viper, with the addition of well thought out aero. Go ahead and stick a wing and a splitter on a car that isn't fast already and see how it works out on a racetrack.

I'm sorry, but your opinion is based on no personal experience, which happens to be the opposite of my personal opinion, which is based on a lot of personal experience, backed up by empirical data. My Viper is my track car, and I have no problem showing the tail lights to Ferraris, Porsches, Lamborghini's(owned on of those too), Audis, BMWs, or any other at our local racetrack. There are 2 faster cars in my group, and guess what they are. Viper ACR's......

If you had said "I don't like them." or "They're too ostentatious for my tastes." I wouldn't argue. Personal opinions are never wrong when it comes to preference. But "big clumsy GT car......way too big,  heavy and lumbering to ever be considered a sports car" ? That's not even based in reality. It's the only modern sportscar that has actually gotten lighter in its latest generation. The hood roof and hatch are all made from carbon fiber on the new Vipers. The doors and side sill are made of superformed aluminum.

If you have the time watch this short documentary of how the new Vipers are built, by hand. You might still not like the way they look, but you might learn that sportscar isn't the right term to be used to describe one, supercar fits better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8GRWeK4sFE

[DAY CLONA]

Viper.....big clumsy GT car......way too big,  heavy and lumbering to ever be considered a sports car. Not for me! Over here it even races in GT rather than sports class....and gets its ass kicked every time! Sports cars are light powerful and above all agile (IMO!)...the viper is only one of those. . It could just be the differences in what the US and Euro residents consider a Sports car. Thinking about it I cant really think of any true US sports cars.....no....going very fast in a straight line is NOT a sports car!

EDIT: Just seen a Top Gear test in the new 700 plus horse Ford GT....that's a proper American sports car! Even if the purists are saying it should be V8!

Not to start an argument, but you've obviously never sat in a Viper to call it a GT car, lol. There is absolutely no room inside them to grand tour anywhere. I've owned a couple, and have a 2015 now. Mine tips the scales at 3290 pounds, you honestly think that's heavy in modern sportcar terms? It's also shorter than a Porsche 911. Sure the proportions make it look huge, but it is actually a very small car. Even the base model is in the top 10 production lap times at Laguna Seca. I've raced there competitively, and there are corners I assure you. The Viper ACR, has the exact same suspension design, drivetrain, and chassis as every Viper, with the addition of well thought out aero. Go ahead and stick a wing and a splitter on a car that isn't fast already and see how it works out on a racetrack.

I'm sorry, but your opinion is based on no personal experience, which happens to be the opposite of my personal opinion, which is based on a lot of personal experience, backed up by empirical data. My Viper is my track car, and I have no problem showing the tail lights to Ferraris, Porsches, Lamborghini's(owned on of those too), Audis, BMWs, or any other at our local racetrack. There are 2 faster cars in my group, and guess what they are. Viper ACR's......

If you had said "I don't like them." or "They're too ostentatious for my tastes." I wouldn't argue. Personal opinions are never wrong when it comes to preference. But "big clumsy GT car......way too big,  heavy and lumbering to ever be considered a sports car" ? That's not even based in reality. It's the only modern sportscar that has actually gotten lighter in its latest generation. The hood roof and hatch are all made from carbon fiber on the new Vipers. The doors and side sill are made of superformed aluminum.

If you have the time watch this short documentary of how the new Vipers are built, by hand. You might still not like the way they look, but you might learn that sportscar isn't the right term to be used to describe one, supercar fits better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8GRWeK4sFE

What's wrong with you!...bringing facts and real world experience into this "discussion" shame on you  

[alfaitalia]

Not a GT car....erm?....well they race in GT class rather than Sports..in Europe at least...oh and the fact that two of the four models available have the letters "GT" in their name is a small clue too.
...but as I said before, what you guys think of as GT is probably different to us.

[darbgnik]

Over here, the term GT car means grand touring. Think Aston DB9 or BMW M6, or more appropriately Bentley Continental GT. Big, heavy, fast comfortable cars. Only one of which the Viper is. And when it comes to racing, like IMSA and GTD, bear in mind, they put a restrictor in them to make the other cars competitive. Any Viper you buy off the showroom floor has about 150 more horsepower than the racecars.

Nomenclature aside, none of it makes the car big or heavy, as I said, the Viper is physically smaller than a new 911, unless those are considered big unwieldly cars over there? Off the showroom floor, the Viper is one of the best roadcourse cars you can buy, the perennial test of power and agility. No superchargers or turbos to heat soak, just consistent, lap after lap.

I know it's all good fun to make fun of US cars as not being able to go around corners, and I'm sure it was even more fun when it was true. But it hasn't been for going on 2 decades. Don't get me wrong the first and second gen Vipers were not track cars, but the newer Gens are the epitome. Not much fun for guys with no skills, as they wont drive and shift themselves, but if you are a fast driver, you won't find anything in that price range that will touch it.

And by the way, I'm Canadian, so there's no patriotism talking, just personal experience, from a guy whose owned and driven some of the best Europe has to offer(and on track). And guess where I pass 98% of those lighter, more nimble cars? In the bends.

[Kern Dog]

Not a GT car....erm?....well they race in GT class rather than Sports..in Europe at least...oh and the fact that two of the four models available have the letters "GT" in their name is a small clue too.
...but as I said before, what you guys think of as GT is probably different to us.

Europe?
We left that foggy place 300 years ago.....

[cdr]

Not a GT car....erm?....well they race in GT class rather than Sports..in Europe at least...oh and the fact that two of the four models available have the letters "GT" in their name is a small clue too.
...but as I said before, what you guys think of as GT is probably different to us.

Europe?
We left that foggy place 300 years ago.....

LMFAO!!!!   WELL SAID KD !!!!

[alfaitalia]

Foggy?  Lol! Europe is quite big.....its hot and sunny down South.....and snowy in the North just like over there! But here in the middle...yep..spot on a lot of the time!

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Europe?
We left that foggy place 300 years ago.....

I can't imagine why?              

[alfaitalia]

Common boys....getting a bit personal now isn't it?....not to mention inaccurate...what the hell is blood pudding!! Never heard of it. Do you mean black pudding?? Probably...and that's mainly in the North of the UK. Tasty with a full English breakfast though! There are lots of members on here from the UK and Europe so go easy. I would have retaliated with some comment about the USA ....but I'm above that...(OK maybe not) and the last thread that went that way got closed by the mods!!!....oh and you have guns!

BOT...

[cdr]

Common boys....getting a bit personal now isn't it?....not to mention inaccurate...what the hell is blood pudding!! Never heard of it. Do you mean black pudding?? Probably...and that's mainly in the North of the UK. Tasty with a full English breakfast though! There are lots of members on here from the UK and Europe so go easy. I would have retaliated with some comment about the USA ....but I'm above that...(OK maybe not) and the last thread that went that way got closed by the mods!!!....oh and you have guns!

BOT...

You started it, & this aint the 1st time.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

 http://www.autonews.com/article/20170424/OEM06/304249979/keep-the-dodge-demon-off-our-roads

"The 840-hp Dodge Challenger SRT Demon from Fiat Chrysler is so inherently dangerous to the common safety of motorists that its registration as a road-worthy automobile should be banned.

We don't reach this conclusion lightly. There are more powerful, and even faster, vehicles available from other automakers that are rightly street legal."

WTF?

[alfaitalia]

Common boys....getting a bit personal now isn't it?....not to mention inaccurate...what the hell is blood pudding!! Never heard of it. Do you mean black pudding?? Probably...and that's mainly in the North of the UK. Tasty with a full English breakfast though! There are lots of members on here from the UK and Europe so go easy. I would have retaliated with some comment about the USA ....but I'm above that...(OK maybe not) and the last thread that went that way got closed by the mods!!!....oh and you have guns!

BOT...

You started it, & this aint the 1st time.

Lol...I started but just saying that many, myself included considered the Viper a GT car and (imo)...not a great one which is backed up by very poor race results over here in the GT class)...at no point did I start taking the piss out of your country.......so get over yourself. If you don't like someone with a view point different to yours and have to start taking a poke at someone's homeland to make yourself feel better...then I suggest an open forum is not the place for you. I thought this forum was better than that.

[cdr]

Common boys....getting a bit personal now isn't it?....not to mention inaccurate...what the hell is blood pudding!! Never heard of it. Do you mean black pudding?? Probably...and that's mainly in the North of the UK. Tasty with a full English breakfast though! There are lots of members on here from the UK and Europe so go easy. I would have retaliated with some comment about the USA ....but I'm above that...(OK maybe not) and the last thread that went that way got closed by the mods!!!....oh and you have guns!

BOT...

You started it, & this aint the 1st time.

Lol...I started but just saying that many, myself included considered the Viper a GT car and (imo)...not a great one which is backed up by very poor race results over here in the GT class)...at no point did I start taking the piss out of your country.......so get over yourself. If you don't like someone with a view point different to yours and have to start taking a poke at someone's homeland to make yourself feel better...then I suggest an open forum is not the place for you. I thought this forum was better than that.

You just don't get it, do you?

[alfaitalia]

To be honest?... nope...I don't. I guess I will just stay out of this one. From now on i'll only post when I agree with something. Viper?.....best Sports car ever dude!

[Lennard]

  I don't get the either... everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Discussion is what makes a forum and fills topics. Otherwise every topic would have 5 replies saying " I agree" and then disappear to the next page.

[DAY CLONA]

Common boys....getting a bit personal now isn't it?....not to mention inaccurate...what the hell is blood pudding!! Never heard of it. Do you mean black pudding?? Probably...and that's mainly in the North of the UK. Tasty with a full English breakfast though!

BOT...

Blood "pudding" or black "pudding", all basically the same: blood sausage or meat cooked down/reduced in blood, depends where in Europe or SE Asia you are, blood pudding can also be a curd/gelatin of pigs blood, or duck blood, or any other unfortunate animal used

[darbgnik]

I love me some fried blood pudding, but I haven't had it in years. But I always assumed it was more an Irish thing than English?

I for one, am not offended by you stating your opinion, and only responded because I honestly believe my personal experience, coupled with the Vipers performance at many tracks, off the showroom floor which basically backs that up. If you've ever driven one, you would never call them lumbering. Darty would be more accurate, little steering inputs make big direction changes, as well as light throttle inputs. Then of course there are the numbers, which black and white point out that the cars are neither big nor heavy.

Then there's the little issue of racing results. While it's true track times convey an impartial measure of performance, removed from bias, the same cannot be said of racing sadly. As I said, I race competitively, and have some views on that different than most, yours too possibly. Every racing series is a test tube for regulations meeting the rubber, in an attempt to make all cars equal. Theory is, if the cars are equal, the racing is more competitive, and better, which is true. It makes it a drivers race, which again I like, being a driver. Problem is, they are never equal. You give one car an ever so slight advantage, or neutering, after many laps the result is magnified.

A personal friend races IMSA GS class on this side of the pond. They started off last year winning each of their first 3 races, an impressive accomplishment. Problem was, Ford is a major sponsor, and complained to have the car made less competitive. Sounds fair right? I mean they beat 20 some cars three times in a row, so maybe the car was too good? Well the problem was, Ford took pole position for each of those races..... So if the Porsche was so good, why was the Ford faster on an empty track? Now here is the shady part, Ford is a major sponsor of the series, and lobbied for a weight penalty on the Porsche and got it. I can't remember what the penalty was exactly, it was 5KG maybe? The result? The Porsche, with my friend driving didn't get one more point for the remainder of the season. Ford was happy, his car was neutered, and that was that.

Sorry for the long winded post, but in my personal experience, racing results are just not an unbiased measure of a cars potential, and I feel bad for brand  fans that believe this. It's sad, but politics trumps cars and talent in racing. Which is why most automotive press gives zero weight to racing results when comparing cars. Off the showroom, brought to a track, wrung out be the same driver in the same conditions, is as close as it gets, which is why over here, most point to the Motor Trend testing performed by Randy Pobst at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, as the crudely "official" fast list. And every Viper is at the top end of it, from the base model through the ACR.

You can think what you want, but you've probably gathered I think I know better, with more subject matter experience.

That being said, if it was my first long winded post that caused the EU vs US thing, I apologize, that wasn't my intention. I didn't want to put this thread off the rails, and if you feel your being poked from all sides, I'll bow out of this one.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I love me some fried blood pudding, but I haven't had it in years. 

   


 

[darbgnik]

I love me some fried blood pudding, but I haven't had it in years. 

Hahaha. Haven't seen it look like that. Usually comes in in patties, like hamburger patties. Luckily I had it first as a kid, before I knew what it was. Hahaha


   


 

[68pplcharger]

Car is badass and I'd love to own it. to bad NHRA banned it from competition.

[birdsandbees]

Car is badass and I'd love to own it. to bad NHRA banned it from competition.

No different than any other car that runs that fast.. needs a roll bar to compete.

[keepat]

This link is relevant to the Viper conversation. 2 Vipers lead 3 GT3RS in the Targa Tasmania. Tomorrow is the last day. The Viper ACR-E has a 84 second lead over the 3rd place Porsche.
Go VIPER!!
Pat

https://targa.com.au/tc/news_details.asp?asset_id=29759