City people vs Country people

[69DAYTONASE]

No, no, no.......not at all. There's no point opening that door. It's old news, everyone I know in the country stopped eating GMO foods and drinking hormone milk years ago. There's no reason to point out the direct link between GMO foods and the dramatic increase in learning and behavioral disorders as well as various health problems. Especially now that the city people are catching up thanks to the issue being raised by small farmers against the government subsidized corporate farms.
Ah, GEEZ!!! Now look what you made me do!

[Laowho]

Are we headed next to a discussion of free range/organic/hormone-free?

Probably not, tho suicide seeds and GRUT get a bad rap. Itsa Modest Proposal, but much of our difficulty is over-population, and (by some estimates) the 23k people who starve every day is a start. And for our dystopic survivors (the ones w/o bunkers and guns), there's always the WB and IMF--Call it Democracy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68zccrskOqQ

Rock on 

[XH29N0G]

Yes, I forgot about that for an instant.  I saw an article about the level of starvation and it is a problem.  Could be for us too with continued food production, soil, and water.  I saw a map through the decades of the amount of topsoil across the US and into Canada in a talk a few years ago and it was very sobering to realize that it, and food production are going to be big issues facing us.  Was told last night that the large oaks we have in my area are all but gone in 10-20 years because it just isn't wet enough and there are other diseases they are battling.  I have been watching them die in my yard over the past 20 and see the signs on many of the trees I presently have. 

[Tilar]

   
Country folk might survive better in a short-term TSHTF situation, but I'm not convinced about the longer term. 

I am. Reason I say this is in a long term SHTF situation, money will be useless because nobody will have anything for sale. People can do without anything with the exception of food and maybe medical, and the country folk are way better prepared in the food area. For instance, What percentage of city folk know how to keep meat and vegetables long term and not have to worry about freezing it, Let alone have an almost never ending supply of it?

[JR]

Again, what's with the SHTF fetish country people have?

In an apocalypse situation, were ALL dead no matter what.

Don't believe me, look up the location of every nuclear power plant in the u.s.

Here's a map of every one in the U.S., And the affected range in the event of a worldwide total meltdown.



Now, unless you live in those desolate areas in the Midwest, were ALL dead.

Best case, you can hold out for a while in those mountains before you eventually eat a radioactive deer.  Or wander into an affected area and come down with radiation poisoning.

If you live in the Eastern half of the U.S., you'll probably neve make it out alive, regardless of how many bullets you have, or how many radioactive animals you catch and eat.

Now, if you're talking about a WW3 situation, what in the sam blue hell are you going to do differently than someone living in a city? Sure the city will likely be a target over rural America
Towns, but so what? If you end up drafted to war, you're in the trenches right along side the city boy that got drafted. So your stockpiles, and your "living off the grid" lifestyle means precisely, jack s-#&.

So again, why the constant hard on for SHTF? I can only assume there's so much discussion of it from country people because they want it so bad.

[cooldude]

Yes, I forgot about that for an instant.  I saw an article about the level of starvation and it is a problem.  Could be for us too with continued food production, soil, and water.  I saw a map through the decades of the amount of topsoil across the US and into Canada in a talk a few years ago and it was very sobering to realize that it, and food production are going to be big issues facing us.  Was told last night that the large oaks we have in my area are all but gone in 10-20 years because it just isn't wet enough and there are other diseases they are battling.  I have been watching them die in my yard over the past 20 and see the signs on many of the trees I presently have.  

And millions of acres of very fertile farmland in the country going to waste, not growing anything but sage brush and weeds, all because of corrupt government policy.

There once were things called small farms, where small farms grew a great deal of food. It was our mainstay of food production in WW2, and it was what America was founded on, right from the start. But the clowns in high places didnt like that set up.

The small farms were competition to the large, govt subsidized large agro farms, which sent lobbyist to Washington to bribe the politicians.

Soo...the govt started a systematic program to basically outlaw the small farmer, take away the market for our goods, regulate us out of business, and do everything anything and everything to wipe out the small guys. It didnt go unnoticed that the small farm family was teaching traditional values to the kids, which was another incentive for the clowns in power to try very hard to break down the small farming as an institution.

They erased out the market for the small farmers.We could grow, but had no where to sell. Influence peddling, selective subsidies and tax and financial regulations, and every other fabricated, unbalance and unfair sort of regulation took away the buyers.  It is a nightmare of red tape, dirty deals, and abuse of power.

And then they went into overdrive with more job exporting programs such as Nafta, so the importation of food from Mexico goes on, subsidized by the people they are putting out of business. Small farmers, who have no market now, had also to compete with subsidized imported food. Local store chains are actually not allowed to buy local. They must buy from Mexico or face the wrath of the ABC government agencies, who would come down on them like a ton of lead. Store managers have told me this.

And the government also enacted wave after wave of "Food Safety" laws to heap more mountains of red tape, regulation, and unnecessarily expensive tests on the small farmers, in triplicate. By sheer coincidence, the large agrofarms were immune to the very same regulations and tests.

Small farmers that rase live stock are required to file tests on every animal (if they can find a market). These tests may cost in the thousands of dollars per animal.Large agro companies are, amazingly, not required to file.They are immune to the tests and regulations. They only apply to the small farmer.


Every conceivable excuse has been put forward to justify these dirty rotten deeds. Everything from "Food Safety", to "Inevitable Globalization", to Climate Change", etc etc blah blah blah. People who dont know better might actually believe them. But they are all false.

And all the while, thousands of people starve to death, while most of the farmland in America goes to waste, growing nothing, just because it is in the hands of small time owners.


The problem of insufficient food production is an artificial one, and would go quickly away, if it were not for unfair and corrupt government policy.

[69DAYTONASE]

You.....hit the nail right on the head! as well the destruction of the small farm really destroyed the gentle society we used to have. My Grandparents 68 acre farm on my Dads side was literally like stepping back into the 1930's, hand pumped water, outhouse and all ! I am just old enough to remember when the mom & pop grocery stores bought locally. Five and dime stores, locally owned and run movie theaters, etc. What the heck my Grandpa on my Ma's side used to drive his Rambler over to the local egg farm to buy eggs, never from the grocery store. I never knew what a shopping mall was until I was 12 and one was built in the village nearby.
Now for fun we revived a tradition and go on Sunday drives after church looking for small towns that time has passed by. Found a couple where friendly people greet you like you're a good neighbor. Even found two mom and pop stores where you can get an ice cold coke in a glass bottle and sit on the front porch watching the clouds go by.
Yep, they're out there.....but way out in the country!

[XH29N0G]

I'm with you on the small farms, but the soil, water, and climate issues are, unfortunately real as well.

[Mike DC]

I am. Reason I say this is in a long term SHTF situation, money will be useless because nobody will have anything for sale. People can do without anything with the exception of food and maybe medical, and the country folk are way better prepared in the food area. For instance, What percentage of city folk know how to keep meat and vegetables long term and not have to worry about freezing it, Let alone have an almost never ending supply of it?

We currently get our food from big machinery & processing & trucking & packaging.  Do the people who know how to operate that machinery have the most food supply today?  No.  The 00.01% does, while having no practical skills at all.

Money & trade isn't going away no matter what happens.  If fiat paper US dollars go up in smoke then people will trade other stuff for a while until some new currency emerges.  

If only the rural folk have adequate food supplies then the super-rich will just take it by force.  Get mercenaries to kill the rural people, or just enslave them on their own land.  Some rural folk would put up a fight with kevlar vests & AR-15s but it won't hold the bad guys off for long.  The bad guys could waste 2/3rds of the population in the process of taking control and still have plenty of slave labor left over.

[69DAYTONASE]

Well...as far as the water and soil issues, our water is about as pure as it gets! 180' well pulling off an underground aquifer the size of Lake Ontario. I've had it tested several times and it is 100% free of pollutants of any kind. So what if the power goes out! I can windmill or hand pump it out.
So how's your water city people? Do you like drinking recycled waste water with all its pharmaceuticals in it from other people's piss and crap? Not to mention poisons like clorine and flouride. Your power goes out and you're up the creek without a paddle, no water at all once your bottled "spring" water (a joke in itself) runs out in a day or two.
Soil problems? Farmers are the ultimate care takers of the soil! Their livelyhood depends on it. Farm soil is actually richer and in better condition than it is naturally. The people here that want to blame farmers for destroying the environment are just plain ignorant of the facts and are puking up the leftist BS they're being spoon fed by pencil pusher community organizer types that frankly don't know what the hell they're talking about.
Get off your rearend and go visit a farm first hand if you want the truth, or are you afraid to get dirt under your manicured nails?
And don't be surprised at all if the farmer hands you a shovel or gives you a chore to do while you ask your questions. Most farmers are in a 12-16 hour workday 7 days a week and if you're going to take up his time he'll want some of yours in return.

[Laowho]

I'm with you on the small farms, but the soil, water, and climate issues are, unfortunately real as well.

Check w/ the WHO but Chomsky recently said 1 person per second is being dislocated due to climate change fallout, more than are being moved by bombs or civil wars and such. Itsa big number, and if'n there's anything to it, climate change won't favor the farmers either (but maybe if you're a rancher named Bundy you'll last a month longer?). Will we end by fire or ice? Ice is nice...

[Ponch ®]

Yes, I forgot about that for an instant.  I saw an article about the level of starvation and it is a problem.  Could be for us too with continued food production, soil, and water.  I saw a map through the decades of the amount of topsoil across the US and into Canada in a talk a few years ago and it was very sobering to realize that it, and food production are going to be big issues facing us.  Was told last night that the large oaks we have in my area are all but gone in 10-20 years because it just isn't wet enough and there are other diseases they are battling.  I have been watching them die in my yard over the past 20 and see the signs on many of the trees I presently have.  

And millions of acres of very fertile farmland in the country going to waste, not growing anything but sage brush and weeds, all because of corrupt government policy.

There once were things called small farms, where small farms grew a great deal of food. It was our mainstay of food production in WW2, and it was what America was founded on, right from the start. But the clowns in high places didnt like that set up.

The small farms were competition to the large, govt subsidized large agro farms, which sent lobbyist to Washington to bribe the politicians.

Soo...the govt started a systematic program to basically outlaw the small farmer, take away the market for our goods, regulate us out of business, and do everything anything and everything to wipe out the small guys. It didnt go unnoticed that the small farm family was teaching traditional values to the kids, which was another incentive for the clowns in power to try very hard to break down the small farming as an institution.

They erased out the market for the small farmers.We could grow, but had no where to sell. Influence peddling, selective subsidies and tax and financial regulations, and every other fabricated, unbalance and unfair sort of regulation took away the buyers.  It is a nightmare of red tape, dirty deals, and abuse of power.

And then they went into overdrive with more job exporting programs such as Nafta, so the importation of food from Mexico goes on, subsidized by the people they are putting out of business. Small farmers, who have no market now, had also to compete with subsidized imported food. Local store chains are actually not allowed to buy local. They must buy from Mexico or face the wrath of the ABC government agencies, who would come down on them like a ton of lead. Store managers have told me this.

And the government also enacted wave after wave of "Food Safety" laws to heap more mountains of red tape, regulation, and unnecessarily expensive tests on the small farmers, in triplicate. By sheer coincidence, the large agrofarms were immune to the very same regulations and tests.

Small farmers that rase live stock are required to file tests on every animal (if they can find a market). These tests may cost in the thousands of dollars per animal.Large agro companies are, amazingly, not required to file.They are immune to the tests and regulations. They only apply to the small farmer.


Every conceivable excuse has been put forward to justify these dirty rotten deeds. Everything from "Food Safety", to "Inevitable Globalization", to Climate Change", etc etc blah blah blah. People who dont know better might actually believe them. But they are all false.

And all the while, thousands of people starve to death, while most of the farmland in America goes to waste, growing nothing, just because it is in the hands of small time owners.


The problem of insufficient food production is an artificial one, and would go quickly away, if it were not for unfair and corrupt government policy.

So why cant the people that own those small farms simply live their own land if they can grow their own food and whatnot? No need to sell anything if theyre self sufficient. After all, as Ive learned in this thread, all one needs is water, a few animals, and guns to survive.

[69DAYTONASE]

Agenda driven statistics are NOT a reliable source of information and WHO is one of the biggest quack organizations there is. Climate change? It's a factor of cyclical routine with the earth. After all, so called "global warming" was proven to be a hoax perpetrated by the very people who claimed it to be truth after their emails were made public. Why? Money! Plain and simple. How many people and companies shelled out money to buy "carbon credits" or spent money to decrease their "carbon footprint".
Goofy Al Gore had all the libtards going for quite a while with his global warming hoax. It's a special kind of stupid that blindly follows the advice of someone whose lifestyle contradicts the very lifestyle changes he preaches to his minions of blind sheep to follow to "reduce their carbon footprint" meanwhile he laughs all the way to the bank.  

[69DAYTONASE]

So why cant the people that own those small farms simply live their own land if they can grow their own food and whatnot? No need to sell anything if theyre self sufficient. After all, as Ive learned in this thread, all one needs is water, a few animals, and guns to survive.
[/quote]

Taxes for one reason, you don't pay them and they seize your property. Otherwise we wouldn't need to sell anything to anybody. 
Now in NYS our retard politicians and governor have passed "Free college tuition" which of course isn't free. Somebody has to pay it. So up go our taxes again. All this is is Socialism. Nothing like a good swift kick in the balls!

[Laowho]

Thought I'd inject some good news/bad news, depending. A judge finally ruled that CA can require Monsanto to label Roundup with a cancer warning. Yay? Or, in the alternative, let's hope Monsanto ties it up in the appeal process long enough for social Darwinism to cull the unfit f/ our midst--you know, the kids who are the most susceptible.   Make Murka great again! Now somebody go get those bleedin heart liberals who are suing the EPA for not allowing Roundup to be banned. The business of America is business--don't they know that?

[Ponch ®]

Taxes for one reason, you don't pay them and they seize your property. Otherwise we wouldn't need to sell anything to anybody.  
Now in NYS our retard politicians and governor have passed "Free college tuition" which of course isn't free. Somebody has to pay it. So up go our taxes again. All this is is Socialism. Nothing like a good swift kick in the balls!

MOABs and weekends in Mar-A-Lago aint cheap either, so we all gotta write and mail checks to Uncle Sam today.

[Laowho]

Taxes for one reason, you don't pay them and they seize your property. Otherwise we wouldn't need to sell anything to anybody.  
Now in NYS our retard politicians and governor have passed "Free college tuition" which of course isn't free. Somebody has to pay it. So up go our taxes again. All this is is Socialism. Nothing like a good swift kick in the balls!

MOABs and weekends in Mar-A-Lago aint cheap either, so we all gotta write and mail checks to Uncle Sam today.

LOL. You think we're not payin for illiteracy right now? Oh that's rich.

[Mike DC]

  

Climate change? It's a factor of cyclical routine with the earth. After all, so called "global warming" was proven to be a hoax perpetrated by the very people who claimed it to be truth after their emails were made public.

There is plenty of bullshit being thrown around on both sides of that debate.  

It's just as much of a "cyclical process" when the midwest & rust belt ends up with no industries & jobs and crumbling infrastructure after a few generations of booming wealth.  People defend a cyclical process a lot more when it's going their way.

[Ponch ®]

Taxes for one reason, you don't pay them and they seize your property. Otherwise we wouldn't need to sell anything to anybody.  
Now in NYS our retard politicians and governor have passed "Free college tuition" which of course isn't free. Somebody has to pay it. So up go our taxes again. All this is is Socialism. Nothing like a good swift kick in the balls!

MOABs and weekends in Mar-A-Lago aint cheap either, so we all gotta write and mail checks to Uncle Sam today.

LOL. You think you're not payin for illiteracy right now? Oh that's rich.

Illiteracy costs me something alright (probably a few brain cells). Especially whenever I read certain posts here, coincidentally or not, often by good self sufficient country folk.

[Chad L. Magee]

Now, unless you live in those desolate areas in the Midwest, were ALL dead.

Best case, you can hold out for a while in those mountains before you eventually eat a radioactive deer.  Or wander into an affected area and come down with radiation poisoning.

.....

Now, if you're talking about a WW3 situation, what in the sam blue hell are you going to do differently than someone living in a city? Sure the city will likely be a target over rural America
Towns, but so what? If you end up drafted to war, you're in the trenches right along side the city boy that got drafted. So your stockpiles, and your "living off the grid" lifestyle means precisely, jack s-#&.

I actually live in one of those "desolated areas" listed on the map and my old hometown is not within one of the nuclear circles either.  If SHTF, I already have a nice supply of canned goods and bottled water in separate locations that can last me (and family members) at least a few more months.  I learned from my rural grandparents who lived through the great depression to always build a descent pantry supply because you never know what might happen later on.  I sometimes wish more people would have done the same, but alas it is their life to live and lose... 

As for being drafted into a WWIII situation, more than likely I would be placed into weapons production/development, rather than actually using one on a battlefield....

[69DAYTONASE]

 

Climate change? It's a factor of cyclical routine with the earth. After all, so called "global warming" was proven to be a hoax perpetrated by the very people who claimed it to be truth after their emails were made public.

There is plenty of bullshit being thrown around on both sides of that debate.  

It's just as much of a "cyclical process" when the midwest & rust belt ends up with no industries & jobs and crumbling infrastructure after a few generations of booming wealth.  People defend a cyclical process a lot more when it's going their way.

Like the drought last summer? All part of the tides of nature. Who's complaining anyway, there's a big difference between thinking you know truth and actually knowing what the truth is after all.
Look at every region that has been decimated of industry and a neglected infrastructure and without exception you will find Leftard liberal socialist politics the cause of it. High taxes are a great way to empty out a state of industry and people.
Remember "shovel ready jobs" the only shoveling was the BS by that one.
What's that old saying? "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink." Lefties should know the horse will never drink if you don't turn 'em around so their heads facing the water.

[Ponch ®]

 

Climate change? It's a factor of cyclical routine with the earth. After all, so called "global warming" was proven to be a hoax perpetrated by the very people who claimed it to be truth after their emails were made public.

There is plenty of bullshit being thrown around on both sides of that debate.  

It's just as much of a "cyclical process" when the midwest & rust belt ends up with no industries & jobs and crumbling infrastructure after a few generations of booming wealth.  People defend a cyclical process a lot more when it's going their way.

Like the drought last summer? All part of the tides of nature. Who's complaining anyway, there's a big difference between thinking you know truth and actually knowing what the truth is after all.
Look at every region that has been decimated of industry and a neglected infrastructure and without exception you will find Leftard liberal socialist politics the cause of it. High taxes are a great way to empty out a state of industry and people.
Remember "shovel ready jobs" the only shoveling was the BS by that one.
What's that old saying? "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink." Lefties should know the horse will never drink if you don't turn 'em around so their heads facing the water.

The problem is that the protectionist, anti free market, blame-somebody-for our problems right isnt a much better alternative

[alfaitalia]

What a sad thread this has become. Live the life you want...whether you are country folk or townies. I like living in the country...on the beach in my case...but I can see the attraction of the hustle and bustle of city live and enjoy the odd week in a big city. As for preparing for if the SHTF....well I guess it's ok if it does not take over your life....I'm not aware of anyone doing it in the UK....no guns here of course...thankfully. If its nuclear, unless you never have wind in the USA, it won't matter if you live in one of the little red circles or not..only the time to your death still vary. We had high (but not lethal..of course) levels of radiation in Scotland for ages after the Chernobyl incident and that was several countries away and against the normal prevailing wind. So live your life, enjoy it and don't worry about what might be....whether you are town or country folk!

[Mike DC]

Like the drought last summer? All part of the tides of nature. Who's complaining anyway, there's a big difference between thinking you know truth and actually knowing what the truth is after all. yesnod
Look at every region that has been decimated of industry and a neglected infrastructure and without exception you will find Leftard liberal socialist politics the cause of it. High taxes are a great way to empty out a state of industry and people.
Remember "shovel ready jobs" the only shoveling was the BS by that one. slap
What's that old saying? "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink." Lefties should know the horse will never drink if you don't turn 'em around so their heads facing the water.

Rural america got jobs that were outsourced from the urban centers.  The urban centers got them generations earlier because they had been outsourced from European countries.  Etc.  

Jobs always make places richer and then eventually move to the next poor place.   The process is much older than Democrats and Republicans.  This stuff was going on literally thousands of years ago.  

[Laowho]

This'll be my last post in the thread, but I thought it'd be helpful to try to point out summa the absurdities that we've been conditioned to discourse by. Appreciate everyone's good humor. Ponch, by illiteracy I was tryin to point out that maybe we've never been taught what's actually intelligent. In fact, as a parent I've struggled w/ whether we want our kids to be happy, healthy, thoughtful people, or whether I shoulda trained them to be sharks. Neither is Zinn's People's History collecting dust in the schools. As for the market/capitalism, it's never been "free" the way we've been propagandized to believe, any more than that mass production and consumerism is unquestionably and inevitability a form of security (jobs), so sayin that it's always been thus is only true for a minority sector of the world population, but if that's all you know then that's all there is. As for climate change and other environmental disasters, they're real, whatever our part in it, emails or no. I've been too far down the rabbit hole to know what really goes on on in board rooms and court rooms and legislatures and prisons, and behind it all are people of every stripe, but nowhere in any of it were any of the human ideals we all expect and live by with our own families. No love or concern for people down the line or for people we don't "have to" care about. And unless that changes, or until we at least connect the dots to reveal the hidden connections, the rest of the rhetoric and intellectual groping we're used to spewing is BS. When our caravan got to New Orleans after Katrina we were turned back, as were all the others who wanted to help. Nobody here, nor there, can tell us why that was w/o muttering empty boilerplate excuses. When the kids are grown I hope to leave them a few things (good self-relationship toward themselves mostly) and a decent Charger, and to convince my wife to go with me back to one of the Indian reservations I lived on in Mexico or Costa Rica for a dollar a day, amongst people who don't give a s*** about money or possessions, and who still speak their own language and culture rather than that of the conquerors. First we're goin to Peru to meet the Shipibo. Best of luck to everyone, but like alfaitalia said, what we really want is under our nose, wherever it goes. Remember that when yer sharin a foxhole or bunker. Peace