Second resto shop to finish first resto shops work - Primer

[CDN72SE]

Think I know the answer but want to ask anyway before I give the second restoration shop an answer.

The short of it is, i just retrieved my car from a restoration shop (use the term loosely) that was forced to shut down. The car is in primer. This is what was quoted to me by the second shop when they looked over the car.

"Please note that the vehicle primer is currently unknown & the longevity of the paint cannot be guaranteed due to the unknown adhesion of the primer applied by the other shop. USING THIS PRIMER AS A BASE COMES WITH THE RISK THAT IT COULD DELAMINATE (sp deteriorate) MONTHS OR YEARS AFTER PAINTING. WE will do our best to ensure adhesion & quality but is restricted by the base & can offer no warranty".

The first shop did give me a list of products used on the car and the processes the car went through-- problem is that it all could have been lies, who knows what actual primer was used on my car. Looks like my car was has improperly blocked bodywork and has been wet sanded with a high grit sandpaper making it unsuitable as is for adhesion purposes.

The car was virtually rust-free and had been stripped completely before shop one started the work.

Ok, to my questions, can shop 2 just DA Sand the body panels back down to bare metal? Do they need to strip the interior, engine bay and trunk?
What are the chances that if they just correct the lows/highs present in current bodywork with fillers and block sand accordingly and then prime the vehicle shell with high build primer that I may be ok.

I still need to get the seam sealer applied.

Here's a picture, just to go with all the text, lol, not really to show the work done though.





http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=70181.200

[70 sublime]

Is this your dream car and you are going to keep it for ever or finish it and drive it for a bit and get bored and start looking for next toy ?

[Dino]

I would not paint a car that came to me in primer. I need to know what the metal is like so yeah they'd have to strip everything down to bare metal. What they need to strip down will be up to them. If it makes for a better end result then they should.

[CDN72SE]

Is this your dream car and you are going to keep it for ever or finish it and drive it for a bit and get bored and start looking for next toy ?

It's the car I always wanted since I was a child, I am 50 now. I have owned it 27 years, it will be my only "toy" and I will only drive it nice weather.
My issue is that I have basically given away thousands of dollars and it hurts to spend another wad of cash.

[CDN72SE]

I would not paint a car that came to me in primer. I need to know what the metal is like so yeah they'd have to strip everything down to bare metal. What they need to strip down will be up to them. If it makes for a better end result then they should.

Thanks Dino, that's what I am thinking, guess I just needed to hear it a few times from you guys, lol. The shop is sympathetic to what I have been through this past 14 months and are trying to help me budget wise.

[Dino]

I would not paint a car that came to me in primer. I need to know what the metal is like so yeah they'd have to strip everything down to bare metal. What they need to strip down will be up to them. If it makes for a better end result then they should.

Thanks Dino, that's what I am thinking, guess I just needed to hear it a few times from you guys, lol. The shop is sympathetic to what I have been through this past 14 months and are trying to help me budget wise.

That's a good start. If the car does not have a load of filler on it then it won't take the shop a long time to get the primer off.

[birdsandbees]

Sucks the big one, but at least they're being honest and want to do a great job for you!!

My guy won't even paint on AMD's coatings, everything gets media blasted clean and epoxy primed with what he "knows".

[CDN72SE]

Yeah there's not a lot of filler, actually the body guy was the only one that seemed to care. I think he was doing his best under the circumstances.
I had an estimate of $10-12,000 Canadian, from shop1 and I'm in almost double that.  

[CDN72SE]

Sucks the big one, but at least they're being honest and want to do a great job for you!!

My guy won't even paint on AMD's coatings, everything gets media blasted clean and epoxy primed with what he "knows".

They did at least strip down the coatings on my AMD front & rear valances as well. Saw this car when I arrived at shop #2.  

[birdsandbees]

About 4 million in that car... and if you're in Bradford I sure hope that David doesn't get you for similar!   

[CDN72SE]

About 4 million in that car... and if you're in Bradford I sure hope that David doesn't get you for similar!   

I thought a fellow Canuck may recognise it, apparently it's 5 mill now, I made sure that my zipper from my coat was nowhere near the car, lol. There was a green 78 Thunderbird there getting some routine maintenance, original paint, regularly driven. Made me feel a bit better. I talked to Dave and Janice and I think I will be okay. Fingers crossed.

[Back N Black]

Is that the "Guild", From what I see on the show they do good work.

[CDN72SE]

Yes it is The Guild, Back N Black, I was contemplating them right from the start. The thought of having to get my car completely stripped down is really giving me a headache.
This would be the third time it's stripped down. Almost feel like taking home and stripping it again myself.

[70 sublime]

I have seen some of the Guild shows also

They seem to really like to spend the customers money

Did you see the show the old couple had the Camaro convertible with the rotted out patched up frame
Their bill was going to be about twice what you could have just gone and bought another car for
Tore the car all apart to give them the estimate or you can just take it home the way it is now

Are you just trying to get your metal work all done and painted or are they going to put it all back together so you can drive it home ?

[CDN72SE]

Yeah I saw that episode. I naturally have a hard time trusting anyone when it comes to paying for services, partly why I have learned and done maintenance on all my cars since i was 16.
The Guild has asked me what my budget is and have asked me what my wishes and usage for the car will be, they are very serious about everything being up front and in the open so there are no misunderstandings.

For my particular 72 SE model I could have gone out and bought a fully restored one plus kept my car for less than I have already spent. I know it's not a high dollar car or very valuable but it's the sentimentality and memories, etc.

Technically the metal work is already done by shop #1, all I want is the car properly prepped, primed and painted. I will put it all back together.

[hemi-hampton]

My Opinion I would have them paint the car as is & agree to there disclaimer of no warranty or guarantee. If you got lots of money to spend & want perfection & want it to last forever then get it stripped & start over. I think you'll be fine but you never know. It' risky & like playing Russian Roulette. If someone brought me a primered car to paint I would say the same thing they said to cover my ass. LEON.

[CDN72SE]

Thanks for commenting Hemi Hampton, yeah I guess it just comes down to me to decide which way to go with it.
I'll keep you posted.

[Dino]

This is my opinion so do with it as you see fit, but after all the investment you have made into this car, monetary and otherwise, I believe it to be foolish to take a risk of painting over the current primer. If something goes wrong in the future you'll be kicking yourself for a very long time. The car should be brought back to bare metal and covered in epoxy primer. There's really no other way to ensure longevity. Regular primer is like a sponge, it will not stop moisture from reaching the metal.

[CDN72SE]

I do value your opinion Dino so thanks for sharing. I think I should go back to bare metal, because not only will I be kicking myself but so will my wife.  
I just wasn't prepared for all this, I thought I had my bases covered.

I do appreciate everyone's advice and opinions it does mean a lot as I don't have any "car" people around me to ask any advice. This site and the people continue to be very valuable.  

[Dino]

I hear you man, this is a tough one to swallow for sure. In the end the soreness will make way for the joy of having your car where you want it to be. It's hard to lose money, no arguments there, but you'll come out on top and have your dream ride.

You can also take some solace into knowing you're not the first, nor the last, that spend a few bucks too many on his car.   

[CDN72SE]

That's for sure Dino, thanks. I haven't driven this thing since '92, I'm almost a different person now, lol.

[Scaregrabber]

The sanding is bad right now anyway. Get an estimate from them on how many hours to strip the exterior only and reprime it assuming they find no problems. Surely they can give you a # for that. I know it wouldn't take me long to knock it down, clean it and re prime it. So if it is $2k or less big deal, go for it.
No way would I strip under the hood, door jams etc. unless I seen some popping or lifting.

Sheldon

[CDN72SE]

The sanding is bad right now anyway. Get an estimate from them on how many hours to strip the exterior only and reprime it assuming they find no problems. Surely they can give you a # for that. I know it wouldn't take me long to knock it down, clean it and re prime it. So if it is $2k or less big deal, go for it.
No way would I strip under the hood, door jams etc. unless I seen some popping or lifting.

Sheldon

Thanks Sheldon, I'll give them a call and see what they say, what you are saying sounds reasonable enough that's for sure.

Alan

[CDN72SE]

Just spoke to the shop, they are going to do a cross-hatch test on the primer to check adhesion. If it passes the test then I will authorise them to go ahead with prep, primer and paint.

[E5 Charger]

That's where you are taking it! Cool! I've seen the show. Are you going to be in a future episode?

[CDN72SE]

Yes, saw it on tv as well I am going to get them to prep and paint and I will re-assemble at home.
I think they have already wrapped up this season, final episode airs March 23.

[hemi-hampton]

If you could get it stripped for $2k or less like scaregrabber said then by all means go that way. Sounds like you got $20k into it already, be a shame to see all that thrown away to start over again. LEON.

[CDN72SE]

Yeah Leon the money is adding up, just waiting to see what the shop says about the condition of the primer that's on the car and whether it is a suitable base, should know tomorrow.

[Scaregrabber]

Excellent, I like the idea they are going to do a little testing first. Hang in there!

Sheldon

[CDN72SE]

Thank you Sheldon.

[hemi-hampton]

What if the 1st shop did not go out of Business, you were going to let them paint it wern't you? LEON.

[CDN72SE]

Hi Leon, if the first shop had not gone out of business, yes I was going to let them paint it. I had actually paid for the paint, he asked for the money to buy it.

[CDN72SE]

Looks like my car has past the primer test and will be loaded on the rotisserie on Monday.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Alan

[birdsandbees]

GREAT news!!! 

[timmycharger]

  Good luck, I am sure it will be flawless when you get it back!!

[hemi-hampton]

For me, passing a primer adhesion test would be a big concern. But also a big concern would be how well or the quality of the work under the primer. if done poorly you could still run into problems soon down the road regardless of good primer adhesion. Hopefully everything was done properly & if so it should last a long time. Post pics when done. LEON.

[Scaregrabber]

Yup: Progress pics are required.

Sheldon

[CDN72SE]

Thanks Guys, and you are right Leon. I know they did spend a good deal of time checking the car over. I'm just glad they didn't come back to me and say you know what we highly recommend you strip it all down and start over again; even when not needed.

Will post some pics when I get them.

[CDN72SE]

Getting mounted on the rotisserie:

[superbirdtom]

if the body shop immediately put it into epoxy AND kept it indoors the whole time AND this is the most important had the proper line dryer and filtration system to keep out water in the booth air lines then your probably safe.  the worst thing is to two part epoxy a bare metal car and then move it outside thinking it has protection .  I am speaking from 40 years experience seeing cars bubble up down the road from bad airline protection.  of course theirs other things that could cause failure but bubbling from moisture in air lines is the worst as it goes right down to the bare metal.

[CDN72SE]

You know what Tom I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have it outside for a period of time, who knows what they were up to. There were even speckles of undercoating or some similar material sprinkled all over the car. I tried my best to keep on top of things but sometimes life gets in the way. Just keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks for your insight.

[superbirdtom]

At least its in a warm dry shop now and blocking it out will release trapped moisture if there is any   I think youll be ok as most shops when you had your work done did have pretty good line filtration systems. nice car one of my favorites im sure its going to be great looking and fun to drive!

[CDN72SE]

Thanks for your positive comments superbirdtom, much appreciated.