Fitting up panels question?

[Bronzedodge]

I need some suggestions on technique.  Friend of mine has the back half of his Barracuda apart - quarters, tailight panel, wheelhouse, etc.  He's running self tapping sheetmetal screws as a temporary holders - he ends up with 5-6 holes in a section.  It seems like a lot.  He's a beginner, this is his first build.  I'm not over there enough to help often, so I'm not sure of his methods.  I know fitting up is the most time consuming part.  Anyone have a suggestion?

[Troy]

Only 5-6?

I am also an amateur so keep that in mind! Depending on the panel and how much it liked to move/warp I may have put a screw every 8" or so (about every 4th spot weld in places like the trunk) and also on each side of a sharp corner where panels meet. I had a box of 100 screws and came close to running out a few times (did the trunk floors, drop downs, tail panel, lower quarter patches, inner and outer wheel house patches, and dutchman panel on my 70 Challenger). Filling them is super easy as you can just poke the wire into the hole and give it a 1/2 second blast. Now I have Clecos but you still end up with similar sized holes.

Troy

[68 charger freak]

Before drilling any holes, use clamps to hold panels in place. Once your happy with the fitment and gaps,drill holes for clecos. Only drill enough holes for alignment purposes (you won't need many for each panel). Once you've done that to all parts being replaced. Remove the panels and drill the plugs weld holes. Reinstall the parts using the clecos for alignment .then use clamps to hold the panels tight to each other then weld. I only use screws when clamps or clecos won't work in certain areas 

[Troy]

Self tapping screws are cheap and fast if you're going to end up with a Cleco hole any way. I love the Clecos but for someone doing one car (ever) as a hobby I don't know if they're worth the expense.

I have probably 40 clamps of different lengths and styles too. Say what you want about Harbor Freight but the small ones can be had less than $3 on a regular basis and they do a fine job! They have some larger clamps and some specialty stuff too. Test the adjustment range and the function of each in the store before you buy. I use the clamps initially and then the screws once things are "semi permanent" (same way Clecos were mentioned above). The holes help realigning things when you have to take them apart 50 times! When you're doing floors, wheel houses, trunk drop downs, etc. you have very few places you can clamp (pinch weld areas and wheel lips). Floors especially need to be tight to the frame rails/supports but it seems common that they're "floating" after a restoration. These provide structure/strength to the car so make sure they are welded!!! The trunk floors are welded to the pan under the rear seat, wheel houses on each side, extensions on each side, rear cross member and both sides of both frame rails. It's almost impossible to clamp the front edge and rails. On the Challenger I had to use about 8 screws across the front and maybe 8-10 on each frame rail (the floor pan didn't quite match the original rails so even placing a lot of weight in it didn't do what I needed). I used screws on the tail panel to quarter area as well because the tail panel is concave and I didn't have any clamps that would reach all the spots through the trunk or taillight openings. I had to use screws yesterday when I was fixing the lower windshield corners/lower cowl because it's physically impossible to get clamps on it (there are braces under/behind the dash, no holes nearby to reach through, and the whole area is made up of complex curves). Speaking of glass... when fitting, don't forget to test fit the glass, lights, trim, doors, trunk lid, and rear valance BEFORE welding anything.

So to recap: clamps, clamps, clamps, and more clamps to get it all positioned. Once you're close enough to be repeatable, screws or Clecos. If you do screws first you create new holes every time you adjust and that makes a mess! When welding use everything possible to keep stuff from re-adjusting due to heat (although you shouldn't be putting a lot of heat into sheet metal it doesn't take much).

Since he's a beginner... a lot of reproduction parts aren't an "exact fit". Some are better than others. One of my trunk drop downs had a fold in the wrong place, the trunk floor had indentations for the frame rails about 4" off, the rear of the trunk pan was a different shape than the tail panel, flanges on the wheel houses and tail panel had a lot of extra material, and so on. Most of the time some sort of hammering or trimming is involved. Before cutting anything make sure it actually needs cut!!! Sometimes if a curve is too shallow the panel seems to long but once it's all shaped properly it fits. If you already chopped off 1/2" then filling the gap is ugly - and time consuming! For initial fitting I find it easier to leave some of the original metal in place for reference. An example would be the trunk extension/drop down when fitting lower quarter patches. Once the patch meets the old extension, then put in the new extension and see where it's off. If you just cut off the quarter and install the extension it will be a nightmare lining up the quarter if the extension was the wrong shape or if you get it slightly crooked! It gives me nightmares when I see cars with the entire back end cut off except the frame rails and part of the rear window filler panel. The factory had jigs to align all that stuff in open space. When assembling, sometimes you may need to remove a part to properly weld the one underneath so having a repeatable alignment is important.

Troy

[Bronzedodge]

So to recap: clamps, clamps, clamps, and more clamps to get it all positioned. Once you're close enough to be repeatable, screws or Clecos. If you do screws first you create new holes every time you adjust and that makes a mess! When welding use everything possible to keep stuff from re-adjusting due to heat (although you shouldn't be putting a lot of heat into sheet metal it doesn't take much).

Troy

Right.  That's what he's doing, using screws for the initial alignment.  He has a pile of Harbor Freight clamps too.  That's actually what I had told him, what ya'll had said.  Thanks for the reply's fellas.