Short Introduction of myself and 1st question concering carburator model/typ

[rollo1504]

Hello Folks!

I am a completely new member to this forum and first I want to introduce myself a little bit before I start questioning...

I am from Austria (Center of Europe and we DO NOT have kangaroos :-) ...), am 35 years old and after 4 years of putting by money and searching the internet for a dodge charger finally a dream has come true...
I got my 1973 dodge charger SE, 400CUI bigblock 2bbl.... I am so happy to be an owner of such a machine I can't tell you guys... :-)

I am working as an IT guy..... so I am not a mechanic nor an electrician.... BUT for mechanical things my buddy Alex is always helping me out or teaches me many things about V8 motors and my knowledge is growing and growing....
I am also no electrician but I am very interested to this stuff and I am not afraid of measuring, change something..... :-)

Please don't blame me for questioning maybe stupid questions......

My charger is a restoration project but in a not too bad shape I would say. Nevertheless I don't know what all the guys did to the car before me but the wiring was just a huge mess... the spark plugs were connected the wrong way to the distributor and so on and so on....

So I am taking care of resolving all these issues to get the car running.... I already took out the complete engine bay harness and being installing right now a complete new wiring harness from classicindustries....

I have several questions about the wiring but for that I will read the electric section or create a new topic there....

OK lets start with my 1st question... I have a holley carburator installed and I don't know what type/model this is or if its stock or not....
The goal is to set up the carb in a good and proper way and meanwhile I want to learn how it works.... I already know that there are some screws and so on to adjust the carb but I would like to ask you guys how to do it and further
I want to read the manual of this part as well.....

I have attached some pictures and hopefully one of you great members may send me a link where I can get a manual or something.....

I am so happy to be part of the V8 charger family and I hope you guys will help an Austrian enthusiast a little bit to realize his dream to drive down the Austrian roads in his on charger......

Roland

[rollo1504]

... by the way.... here is the VIN of my car...

WP29M3G175316

W   CarLine      Dodge Charger B-Body
P   Price Class      Premium
29   Body Style      2 door sports hardtop
M   Engine      400 1-2 BBL 8-Cylinder "B" engine
3   Model Year      1973
G   Assembly Plant   St. Louis, Missouri

175316 Serial Number      

[rollo1504]

mmmm.... searched the internet....

I think I could find out that this is a 4 barrel carburetor.... but it seems to be "downgraded" to a 2-barrel carburetor.....

I have the intention that this is an old type marine carburetor.....

It would make sense that it has been downgraded as the charger was running on gas before and because of this the 2nd fuel inlet was "deactivated" as the gas "fuel" would not be able to handle two fuel inlets....

Just guessing around.... Would be nice if one of you guys could confirm this theory... :-)

Thanks

Roland

[alfaitalia]

Cant help you with the carb...sorry but someone will know. But just to say Hi from a fellow European (well at least for now...I voted to stay with you!) and best of luck with your build. I look forward to see it moving forward....in both meanings of the word! There are quite a few from this side of the pond who I'm sure will be looking forward to welcoming you and helping out where we can.

[rollo1504]

Thanks!

In the meantime I think I found more details....

It is a Holley 4bbl 1850-9 mechanical choke carburetor... 

Lets see if there is a manual somewhere in the web....

Great.... First question seems to be answered by myself..... just with the invisible support of this forum :-)

OK. So now I know what kind of carb I have to deal with...

Roland

[70 sublime]

Welcome to the club  

Looks like a different intake (the part the carb is bolted to ) is on your car making it into a 4 barrel motor now
Not factory original but not a bad upgrade either  

[Troy]

What you will find with Holley carbs is that they almost all look the same but there are several hundred variations! What I had to do with mine was to look around for stamped numbers on each of the components. These are mainly useful for determining the size of the various parts (including jets, squirters, and metering plates) and whether they were provisioned for something specific (dual inlet, annular boosters, 4 corner idle capability, etc.). Generally, the race oriented carbs have more adjustments.

Troy

[John_Kunkel]

Looking at your pics and assuming it is an automatic transmission car, the TP linkage for the transmission is missing. This is often the case with carb swaps when unknowing persons discard the linkage thinking it's only needed for "passing gear". In reality, the linkage is absolutely necessary and critical for the operation and survival of the transmission.

If it's a standard-shift car, ignore my rantings.

[rollo1504]

Hey John!

Thanks for the illustration!

My car is a 3-speed automatic....

OK the TP link is missing.... but I still do not get the point WHY this thing is so important....so

1. could you/someone explain what it exactly does?
2. can someone tell me where I can get one?

Thanks

Roland

[rollo1504]

OK meanwhile I have checked the holley techlibrary carb numerical list and looked for list number 1850-9

Looks like its a 4160 carb 600CFM --> Hope this one is not too bad for beginning....!??

.... Anyway... Enough info for now... there are several steps to be done right before I come to the carb adjustments :-)

Thanks everybody so far....

Will be back very soon in electric section :-)

Cheers

Roland

[Ryan.C]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY9WTWayCC8

If you do not have your throttle pressure valve installed your internal pressures in the trans will be far to low. Its kinda like always riding your clutch in a manual trans car, it will burn up and destroy the clutch. In an automatic trans this kind of failure/damage involves rebuilding the trans $$$. Hook it up and adjust it properly IMMEDIATELY if not sooner. 

[XH29N0G]

Welcome and have fun with your car.

That carburetor is nothing special, but will work fine.  I suggest sticking with it until you have learned more.  I used one of the same models (with a manual choke) on my engine from 1983 until about 2008.  The rear bowl is fed by the tube on the side and the gas is fed from the front.  I would make sure the seals are good (does not leak) and that the accelerator pump works (you see gas squirt out of the nozzles when the throttle is turned). 

Tuning it should be pretty straightforward with a vacuum gauge.  It is probably easiest to do an internet search, but I'll outline a little here.

There are a limited number of adjustments.  They involve turning the various screws.  The two main ones will be the idle speed screw and the idle mixture adjustment screws.  A tip from my own experience learning...before you do anything with the carburetor, though, make sure your ignition is working correctly.  Then you tune the idle by setting the speed to something like 750 or 850 RPM.  Disconnect the vacuum advance tube to the distributor, and then adjust the idle mixture screws (there are two on this carburetor) for maximum vacuum.  Both screws should be set the same amount out, and this usually is something like 1 to 1.5 turns.  If you close these down, do not tighten them because they are conical at the end and this will damage them.  Once this is set, I usually back them out about 1/8 turn more to make it a little more rich. 

There are other adjustments, but I would leave those.  IF you find it hesitates or backfires on acceleration, then you man need to adjust the screw on the accelerator pump or change that.  If that comes up, send another note and people here will walk you through it. 

 

[rollo1504]

Thank you for the info XH29N0G!

Looks like this is sufficient information to start over with it....

BUT FOR NOW I am still working on installing the new wiring harness to fire it up....

Thank you so far...

Roland

[71 Bee Man]

Well......you may not have kangaroos in Austria, but we certainly do here in AUSTRALIA !!

Such a pity you weren't down here, because then I'd have another 3rd Gen owner to cruise with.......there's hardly any down here.
Seems you're getting all the carb info sorted with your internet searching....that's how I got the info in mine.

Keep posting pictures......good to see other guys 71-74 Charger projects.

Peter
Sydney, Australia.

[XH29N0G]

I like the Kangaroo comment(s).

[rollo1504]

Hey Guys!

Please find some pictures below of my dream which has come true..... :-)

Roland

[rollo1504]

...

More to come....soon 

Cheers

[alfaitalia]

I'm a second Gen bloke myself...but WOW...that looks great. Does not look like too much work to make her a driver either. Nice colour too!

[rollo1504]

The Body is in very good condition but for that the wiring was completely messed up.....

The biggest problem of all is TIME for me... beside job and family to get things done but my plan is to get my baby at least onto the road this year...

Will take care of dash etc later on....

Actual status:

-> Dash panel already removed
-> Old dash wiring harness is still inside but removed very soon
-> Engine bay wiring harness is done to 80%
-> Bypass Bulkhead connectors and install topedofuse :-)
-> Check basic wires and connectors if proper connected....
-> Then try to fire it up.... Want to hear/see how she goes... or not.... :-)

Will find it out soon.... :-)

[rollo1504]

@John: Took another picture of my carb....

I think you are really right concerning the missing TP linkage....

Looks like the "beginning" or some sort of linkage is mounted but NOT going to the tranny. Its also heading to the pedal....

See enclosed pictures....

Thanks

Roland

[John_Kunkel]

The red square surrounds the throttle cable only, no sign of any of the TP linkage or parts. Besides the linkage, the first thing you need is the correct 20-7 Mopar throttle lever extension for both the throttle cable and the TP linkage.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-20-7

Replacement TP linkage (often called kickdown linkage) is expensive but, as I stated, without it your transmission will fail quickly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-big-block-440-kick-down-linkage-71-74-charger-r-t-road-runner-gtx-superbee-/122379807670?hash=item1c7e67abb6:g:5kUAAOSwuxFYuMsS&vxp=mtr

Another alternative for missing linkage is a cable setup like the Bouchillon.

http://bouchillonperformance.com/inc/sdetail/589

Resist the urge to use the cheaper Lokar cable setup, it's junk.

[rollo1504]

Hey John!

Placed an order right now for the replacment linkage.... :-)

If I order the 20-7 Mopar throttle lever extension will I also need the Carb throttle stud?

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/brackets_and_linkage/parts/20-67

Thank you very much John!

Would have been already completely lost without your input and that just right after the beginning of my work with my new baby as a newbie.. I really really appreciate that....

Roland

[71 Bee Man]

Wow......are you sure you've got enough hoses and wiring in that engine bay ??

[rollo1504]

71 Bee Man...

As I already said... I don't know what former owners did to the car....

Everone was always extending/cutting/changing the original worn out wiring harness and all ended up like you can see on the pictures... 

So meanwhile I have removed the complete engine bay wires and I am installing a new wiring harness from classicindustries right now.... :-)

[XH29N0G]

Extending, cutting, fixing is an apt description.   I assume you have not found any that actually make the car work better.

Your car is very nice.

[John_Kunkel]

If I order the 20-7 Mopar throttle lever extension will I also need the Carb throttle stud?

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/brackets_and_linkage/parts/20-67

Yes, but this one is more correct:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-74-Mopar-318-340-360-383-440-4-Barrel-Automatic-Throttle-Cable-Linkage-Stud-/381962646367

And you'll need one of these:



http://www.ebay.com/itm/70-78-Mopar-A-B-E-Body-Cuda-340-383-440-426-Hemi-Throttle-Cable-Lever-Stud-Nut-/401278033804

[Mopar Nut]

  Welcome aboard!

[rollo1504]

John,

I have read again the small printed area in the ebay link you gave me of the tp linkage

"You are bidding on a complete kick down linkage setup for a 1971 thru 1974 440 and 727 transmission. I bead blasted it and it is in excellent condition, not rusted or bent. It has all the correct clips and washers. No aftermarket washers and cotter pins. This is for a raised block only. If you need one for a low block 383, 400 check my other auction"

I have a 727 transmission, thats ok but I am a little bit concerned about the "This is for raised block only. If you need one for a low block 383, 400...."

So will this linkage then fit to my 400 engine.... Hope yes as I already ordered it .... 

[rollo1504]

If I order the 20-7 Mopar throttle lever extension will I also need the Carb throttle stud?

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/brackets_and_linkage/parts/20-67

Yes, but this one is more correct:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-74-Mopar-318-340-360-383-440-4-Barrel-Automatic-Throttle-Cable-Linkage-Stud-/381962646367

And you'll need one of these:



http://www.ebay.com/itm/70-78-Mopar-A-B-E-Body-Cuda-340-383-440-426-Hemi-Throttle-Cable-Lever-Stud-Nut-/401278033804

Quite expensive shipment costs.....

Can you please check following website (this shop is located in Germany and the shipment costs are much less than from the U.S)


1. http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/
2. Dropdown menu "Part-Type" --> Throttle Lever Studs

In there you will find several different Linkage studs incl. english description....

Can you please do me a favor and check these out... maybe with a little bit luck one of them will fit     There is also a linkage stud nut....

----------
UPDATE:
----------

Found these 2 parts in the shop mentioned above:

http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Nut-1966-Early-1970.html
http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Late-1969-74-Auto-340-6-All-NOT-71-73-340.html

I assume these 2 parts will also be fine aren't they?

Thank you John

[Troy]

This one:
http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Late-1969-74-Auto-340-6-All-NOT-71-73-340.html

Same part number "3418 900"

Troy

[rollo1504]

Thanks Troy!

OK so far so good...

And is this              http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Nut-1966-Early-1970.html

the SAME as this      http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-74-Mopar-318-340-360-383-440-4-Barrel-Automatic-Throttle-Cable-Linkage-Stud-/381962646367

? That would be awesome....

Roland

[Troy]

Thanks Troy!

OK so far so good...

And is this              http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Nut-1966-Early-1970.html

the SAME as this      http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-74-Mopar-318-340-360-383-440-4-Barrel-Automatic-Throttle-Cable-Linkage-Stud-/381962646367

? That would be awesome....

Roland

Your first link is for a nut and the second is for a stud.

Troy

[rollo1504]

Thanks Troy!

OK so far so good...

And is this              http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Nut-1966-Early-1970.html

the SAME as this      http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-74-Mopar-318-340-360-383-440-4-Barrel-Automatic-Throttle-Cable-Linkage-Stud-/381962646367

? That would be awesome....

Roland

Your first link is for a nut and the second is for a stud.

Troy

Damn it! Sorry for that

Ok now the right ones....

Is this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-74-Mopar-318-340-360-383-440-4-Barrel-Automatic-Throttle-Cable-Linkage-Stud-/381962646367

same as this: http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Late-1969-74-Auto-340-6-All-NOT-71-73-340.html

?

Roland

[Troy]

Yes, that's why I gave you that link!

Troy

[rollo1504]

Oh man...

Sorry its already very late here in Austria so I guess my eyes will need a rest :-)

Last question then:

Will the nut fit to the stud?

http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Nut-1966-Early-1970.html
http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Late-1969-74-Auto-340-6-All-NOT-71-73-340.html

Need just to be 100% sure before placing an order

Cheers

[ACUDANUT]

the carb is too small, You need a 750
nice car

[rollo1504]

the carb is too small, You need a 750
nice car

Maybe..... but for now I don't want to think about replacing the carb... first of all I want to get this thing running.... But thank you for this info... I will keep this in mind.

Roland

[Nacho-RT74]

Two things...

I noticed you have a miles speedo... let me know if you are interested on becoming on kilometers speedo. Have the parts for it.

Also it seems your gas pedal got missed the plastic plug whats keeps the throttle wire in place and used a cable tie to fill the hole. I MAY have one plastic plug, somewhere. If not, many somewhere can grabb someone from any junkyard around. Can't tell if that is being sold new piece somewhere

[rollo1504]

Thanks Nacho...

I will think about the Speedo later as there is aaaa loooot work to do before this... but will keep it also in mind....

Is there anywhere a picture available from the gas pedal environment to see how it SHOULD look like and tell me hows the correct english word for it to be able to have a look in the web for it?

Roland

PS: Nacho.... please have a look for the plastic plug if you can find it. If you find one tell me the price for the km speedo through PM :-)

[Nacho-RT74]

Aaand, as I told you on the other thread about the belts/pulleys set up, I'd try to get the non AC pulleys setup to relocate the alt and run belts correctly. The alt location you have right now with bracket on rear, will cause too many vibrations on alt as the engine increases RPM and could break the alt bolt

[rollo1504]

Aaand, as I told you, I'd try to get the non AC pulleys setup to relocate the alt and run belts correctly. The alt location you have right now with bracket on rear, will cause too many vibrations on alt as the engine increases RPM and could break the alt bolt

OK... obviously another very important thing to do....

Do some webshops offer a whole AC pulley setup or do I need separate parts?.... As I am still a complete noob I would really need a parts list or some links.... otherwise I am completely lost

Many many thanks

Roland

[XH29N0G]

If you do not already have a copy of the factory service manual (paper or electronic - it might be possible to find on the internet), you should get that.  It can have some of the pictures or diagrams you seek.

[rollo1504]

If you do not already have a copy of the factory service manual (paper or electronic - it might be possible to find on the internet), you should get that.  It can have some of the pictures or diagrams you seek.

I have the 73 charger service manual as digital copy...

Roland

[Nacho-RT74]

Here you can download the body and chassis manuals for 73

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1973_Dodge_Body_Service_Manual.zip

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1973_Dodge_Chassis_Service_Manual.zip

Althought I use to hate digital stuff and preffer the paper versions being sold as repro too around. You can print this zips out though

About pulleys setup I think the first you can do is search for reference pics from 73/74 BB cars ( not earliers ) without air, then you'll know the system, what you'll have and what you'll need.

Usually, water pump pulley and crank pulley changes, however MAYBE you still can live with your actual crank pulley. Same as I think you still can live the existant alt bracket. Both could be changed just for correctness. Will need the bolt and spacers matching the alt bracket, althought usually these are being sold as a full set and you choose which ones to use according with your setup.

Note about the kilo speedo. I'm not selling a full Kilo speedo but the parts for the conversion because the speedo extra I got was damaged. Face decals are available around BUT is not just the face but the odometer/counter which changes allong with two gears.

Check on for sale section, is there.

About the plug. Give me couple of months. My car is completely dissasembled and I want to be sure won't find out parts are missed and will have to use my spares.

There is something wrong with your throttle wire at firewall and pedals assembly though, which is not just the cable tie being used

[Nacho-RT74]

The alt you are using is a bit wider than the ones used on those years. Maybe couple of mms. Once you fit everything as must be probably will find the back of alt meets with block on rear bearing area. This is easy to save with a bit longer belt able to get you the alt pivoted further out.

I know why I talk about

[Nacho-RT74]

Here is how must look the acelerator pedal assembly! Is funny how the piece was cut from the firewall LOL.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/111775805597?_mwBanner=1

The wire looks loosen from the pedal link just because is not being pulled out from the engine side. I think you can notice the plastic plug there. AS FAR I RECALL Is like a plastic pin into a plastic ring or washer what spreads out once pin is inserted like a rivet to keep every in place

[Troy]

Oh man...

Sorry its already very late here in Austria so I guess my eyes will need a rest :-)

Last question then:

Will the nut fit to the stud?

http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Nut-1966-Early-1970.html
http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Late-1969-74-Auto-340-6-All-NOT-71-73-340.html

Need just to be 100% sure before placing an order

Cheers

I *think* you want this nut:
http://store.moparshop.de/Produktkategorien/Luft-Benzin/Carburetor-Linkage-Stud-Nut-Mid-1970-later.html?listtype=search&searchparam=%206028%20699

Troy

[rollo1504]

I will ask someone directly from the shop... I am pretty confident that they can tell me with nut is the right one....

Roland

[rollo1504]

Here you can download the body and chassis manuals for 73

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1973_Dodge_Body_Service_Manual.zip

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1973_Dodge_Chassis_Service_Manual.zip

Althought I use to hate digital stuff and preffer the paper versions being sold as repro too around. You can print this zips out though

About pulleys setup I think the first you can do is search for reference pics from 73/74 BB cars ( not earliers ) without air, then you'll know the system, what you'll have and what you'll need.

Usually, water pump pulley and crank pulley changes, however MAYBE you still can live with your actual crank pulley. Same as I think you still can live the existant alt bracket. Both could be changed just for correctness. Will need the bolt and spacers matching the alt bracket, althought usually these are being sold as a full set and you choose which ones to use according with your setup.

Note about the kilo speedo. I'm not selling a full Kilo speedo but the parts for the conversion because the speedo extra I got was damaged. Face decals are available around BUT is not just the face but the odometer/counter which changes allong with two gears.

Check on for sale section, is there.

About the plug. Give me couple of months. My car is completely dissasembled and I want to be sure won't find out parts are missed and will have to use my spares.

There is something wrong with your throttle wire at firewall and pedals assembly though, which is not just the cable tie being used

Thanks for the links... Already downloaded... Will read and try to understand as far as possible....

Do not hurry with the plug... Take your time... I am pretty sure in a couple of months I am still working on my car as well and will face other new upcoming problems for sure....

The time will come when its necessary to concern about it....

There is still my other question concerning the throttle linkage.... -> Am I allowed to start the engine and let it run? I will not drive... just want to hear if motor starts, check timing, pressure, carb etc..... Or is it forbidden to start and idling the engine without the linkage as the tranny might get damaged?

Thanks

[Nacho-RT74]

Maybe I could give you personally the plug! I have being telling this year will move to Spain since EVER. But I don't think will take longer than this summer ( dunno if with my Charger or maybe that will be later )

[rollo1504]

Maybe I could give you personally the plug! I have being telling this year will move to Spain since EVER. But I don't think will take longer than this summer ( dunno if with my Charger or maybe that will be later )

Sounds great! Then there really might be a big chance for a personal meeting as I am also in Spain (Madrid) every 6 months due to my work... 

We will see.... 

[rollo1504]

Hey guys!

Today I continued with rewiring the car... also I checked again the throttle linkage which is missing...

Could see that a cable (similar to the throttle cable) was installed at the tranny and goes into the cabin to the pedal... so I assume the former owner of the car build a workaround for the missing throttle linkage....

Tested this workaround with engine off with my buddy and if the pedal is pressed then the "workaround throttle link cable" also works at the tranny...

So I think I would be able to make a testdrive as soon as engine runs....?

New throttle linkage is already on its way....

Thanks Roland