picking up someone else's project. crazy?

[wingsuit]

quick background, I'm new to the idea of restoring cars. I'm mechanically inclined, pick up new things quick. ie start home reno projects and learn on the go etc. But I never worked on cars growing up. I had recently decided that a 60-70's era car would be a great place to start, as they seem simple enough that it seemed like an attainable goal.

To that end I picked up a nice condition 240z that my plan was to disassemble and learn as I go (ie pull off the suspension and replace with coilovers, redo the underbody to help rust protect, swap to a limited slip diff. Its a great looking car, but I just dont have that hook of the "when I was a kid I dreamed to have one of these". To me that car was a 68 charger. I had initially looked past them as all I came across was ads for restored 70,000-100,000$ cars and didnt think it was in the cards. Not knowing enough to keep looking for projects.

well I found a project that has me tempted to sell the 240 and swap to this which is why I'm here.

I've found someone that has a 68 thats a shell in his garage. I believe he had a shop restoring it that went under. Thing is its just parts in boxes. I dont think anything is bagged and tagged. I've only seen a few pics, and am planning to meet with him this weekend. Thanks to the forums here I've found a great list of questions to ask about the car itself. I believe he had a shop buy the car off a local and start on it, but the only work that looks like has been done is chopping out bad metal and replacing with new. It mentions all metal has been replaced (I'm assuming bad metal as the pic looks like a mix original body with new rear quarter and floorpans. currently a mix of black primer and other color panels)

Hopefully I'll be able to get more answers this weekend as to what tranny and motor etc (I havent seen pics of either or if they exist). I'm new to the charger market so it still seems crazy to me that someone can want 20k for a shell and parts on the floor. If I can reduce that to make the price right Im tempted.

that brings me back to. "is it crazy to think I could take on a first project starting from a pile of parts?" Has anyone here attempted anything similar? I'm mainly trying to avoid the ago old "ambitious project that gets left on the garage floor for years." I think any other car I'd pass and just use the datsun as a learning opportunity..... but come on, its a 68 Charger

[wingsuit]

I forgot to add, my goal for a Charger wouldnt be to replicate the beautifully restored 100,000$ cars I see listed, maybe halfway between General Mayhem and a properly restored car. I just want to have a working/driving 68 charger and see what my funds allow and end up with the ability to wrench on my own car. I think I can find 17-20k now, and another 10-20k to finish it to make it all work. But I'm up in Canada so the exchange rate can kill on some of the US sourced parts.

[green69rt]

$20 k for a shell and boxes of parts???   Need more details but unless it's some kind of extraordinary car I wouldn't go for that much money.  Some questions,

Is it a RT, or 4 speed, or both.
What engine, trans, numbers match?
What do the bags/boxes contain and how much more stuff needs to be acquired to make the car complete?
Engine trans in good shape (how would you really know?)

These kind of deals always end up costing more than estimated.  But the price of these cars keeps going up so who am I to say no( but I wouldn't pay 20K.)

Project cars seem to start around $5K and go up from there based on condition.

Maybe the owner si trying to get his current investment out of the car 

[68 RT]

The bad thing is you wont know if you have all the parts, could  be missing hard to find expensive stuff, could have duplicates. Also have to wonder why someone would strip out a car with intent to restore and not tag and bag. Sure you can do better for 20k.

[Mike DC]

 
I agree.  Don't pay $20k for a body and a pile of parts boxes.  Not unless it has a pretty valuable VIN number. 

 

[wingsuit]

yeah I believe this is likely to move to the "insane sellers" thread. Just heard back that it has no motor, tranny, or suspension. 20k is cdn, but still, thats like 15-16k US. was a 383 to start, so not even an r/t car.

I think its likey he paid for a project car, had it stripped and sheet metal work done to it at a shop, the shop went under and he picked up his shell and is trying to get back every penny he's paid (and then some if he thinks 20k for shell (who's body work still isnt done) with no motor tranny and suspension.

[Back N Black]

Is this the car?
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/strathcona-county/must-see-in-person/1236114447?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[Dreamcar]

Here's my current situation for you to compare with, plus I'm in Canada to so I understand some of the extra financial strain it can cause with the exchange rate, etc. I'm also a former 240z owner!!!

Anyway...

You can do it at home and with help and knowing when it's time to farm out some work to a professional. It's only my second resto, but I'm rebuilding the body myself with some know how and help from more experienced Charger enthusiast and autobody experts, like on this forum. Many members on here have helped me out and I can't put a price on it .

Regarding your potential purchase, the first thing I'd look for is intact numbers: Dash VIN plate, fender tag, radiator support stamp, and trunk gutter stamp. Is it registered with the Province/does the seller have a title that matches the VIN? After that, does it have an engine and trans, and are they stamped with the VIN as well? What size engine is it? If it has the fender tag, what options did the car come with and what are your plans? For example, mine had come with cruise control, and finding the parts cost me a fortune because they are rare when in good condition. It was one of those parts that I had to snap up as soon as I found it, regardless of the fact I'm far from installing it. Other parts that are not reproduced can be like that too, but luckily with Chargers, there is a LOT of reproduced stuff. If you just want a shell to build your own, then what it came with become much less important.

With that said, if the body is very solid and rust/damage free, and if there's some value in the parts, 20K CDN is not a crack pipe price IMO given what new sheet metal can cost you. I also recommend bringing someone with you to check it out.

PM me if you have any specific questions Good luck.

[Dreamcar]

Is this the car?
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/strathcona-county/must-see-in-person/1236114447?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

If this is the car "VIN was lost but I got one from another car so OOP will be required. " would keep me searching for another.

[Dans 68]

Partly crazy....  . I think it would be a great experience, but could be costly. I'm currently working on a '68 Charger project. It is a rare car (383 4-barrel 4-speed A/C) and in the same condition (pulled apart with no photos or bagging  of parts) but I paid a lot less (12k). As long as you can afford the experience go for it.     

Dan

[Troy]

I have actually done that. More than once! It's how I ended up running this site!

As for price, keep in mind that someone like US Car Tool charges $17,500 USD for a "body in white" (meaning all the rust is removed and the entire body is clean sheet metal). Add in the cost of a rusty shell and you're typically well beyond $20,000 - and the car isn't painted or assembled. Other shops are cheaper. I know of one that would do roughly the same work for under $9,000. So the question becomes: how good is the work? Is all the metal straight? Do the gaps look ok? The price may not be terrible when you look around at your other options.

When you buy a car in pieces you really want to be sure the big ticket items are there and adjust the price according to their condition. A good grill can easily swing the value by $1,000. Good tail light assemblies, upper door pads, seat frames, and good bumpers can also be expensive to come across. I live in the rust belt so finding engines, transmissions, and rear axles is fairly cheap and easy so I don't stress about those items being gone. However, realize that "missing engine" means "missing engine and everything on, near, attached to, or in the way of the engine" so you'll be tracking down a ton of parts, nuts, bolts, screws, mounts, fasteners, and brackets. All that little stuff can nickel and dime a project - but, it seems, half the original stuff is rusted or broken any way.

The title issue is a bigger deal to many people. Check your local laws to see how to handle it and if it's worth the aggravation.

I have a pile of projects in the garage and if people are getting $20k for a shell without a drive train or title I may need to sell out!

Troy

[tan top]

hello & welcome WS    what the other guys say !!  

although  personally , I don't think its a good idea picking up someones half started / half finished or  ......  Because .......

1  , if your not familiar with these cars ,  although being a 50 plus year old design , it can be a nightmare finding where the correct clips screws bolts go , along with the assembly procedures , especially if you have not taken the car apart in the first place .

2 ,  just because someone has cut out & welded in new metal , there is no guarantee its been done correctly , seen & heard about lots of disasters where another guy has taken over a project only to find out welded on quarters were , put on crooked , or too far forward or back  , giving door alignment problems ( impossible ) , trunk lid over lapping the top of the rear quarters by 1/4 " no joke .... same with a roof , came to fit windshield , would not fit  , frame rails out of alignment ,  body sagged because too much metal was cut away in one go with out support ....  there are lots of horror stories ....think you get the idea , not trying tp put you off , but  not everyone  who says  ... i'm going to  restore  my car & weld in new metal , knows what they are doing , its easy for a novice to get in over their head  .  & that's why some times these projects have been left  , of course there is an innocent explanation too , un finished project due to lack of money / time / health /  wife / girl friend wanting it sold etc  

3 , same as 1 if your missing parts & you never took the car apart in the first place will be a night mare ...

4 ,  boxs of bits with  nothing labeled & or  in zip lock bags , is another night mare ,  also incorrectly  stored parts that have been removed , thrown in boxes & moved around from place to place , will pretty much guarantee anything &  everything with be damaged in some way in there ,

5 ,  unless the work has been carried out by known body shop , don't trust it  ( then sometimes you still cant trust it ) ,  especially if the seller says all the body work has been done , in primer & just needs paint .

6 ,  factor in the time & money   , to redo any & all  work that has been done to said car .

7 , its always best to try & find the most complete  original unrestored / un messed with car , to start with , even if it has rust & rotted out floors etc  its easier & quicker to work on these , than one that has countless paint jobs & welded patch over patch covered with bondo etc .  ( there always exceptions to this rule though )

Finally !  you have joined the best site for help  , if you do buy this car or a project & you get stuck ,  post up anything your not sure of & pictures etc , & we will all try to figure out whats going on  

Good luck  

[69rtse4spd]

 Start with a complete car if you can, one still together, might cost more but you'll be happy in the long run.

[JR]

Dude, no. Run away from that project. Especially since you've never built a car before.

You're gonna pay 20k for this car, plus ATLEAST 15-20k more to build it. THEN also build skills and experience as you go.

You're going to burn yourself out on it before you ever get close.

I say build your Z and enjoy it. Learn as much as you can working on it. Meanwhile, just save the 40k you're inevitably going to spend on this particular 68 either way, and buy a nicer car when your ready. You can always sell the Z when you're ready and put that towards the budget.

You did say it's a 240z, not a 260 or 280, right? So it's a 70-73, with chrome bumpers? If so, aren't clean, manual trans examples of those bringing around 10-15k now? I would build the Z with some light restomod touches, paint it a desirable color, enjoy it for a while, and sell it before buying a 68. You have the most desirable of the early Z cars, and it's appreciating in value now. So enjoy it, learn with it, then sell when your ready.

But pass on this Charger. It's not right for you.

[Dino]

^^ what he said!   

[Dreamcar]

Even though he's just starting I still think there's nothing wrong with doing some serious restoration as long as you know your limits and know when to ask experts for advice. My only other resto was a 71 240z, and with it I learned lots. Now that I have the Charger, I'm taking my time and doing more learning as I go and farming out the work only when necessary (as per my post above). Is it expensive and frustrating at times, but I'll know every part of that car when I'm done, and now with body panels test fitted, it's really starting to look like a car again and it feels rewarding.

[hemi-hampton]

Buy yourself a complete 318 Charger for cheaper & work on that. $20K for a shell & box of parts is insane in my opinion.  Belongs in Delusional Sellers Post/Thread. LEON

[hemi-hampton]

Is this the car?
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/strathcona-county/must-see-in-person/1236114447?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

I wouldn't call that body work proffesionally done. You don't seam seal patch's that shouldn't be seam sealed. That's the Earl Schieb hack way to do things. LEON.

[bigdsul]

Is this the car?
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/strathcona-county/must-see-in-person/1236114447?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

That seller must be crazy to think he can get 20k for a roller without a VIN.

[JB400]

Lets put it this way, I have a 69, in a similar condition, and I haven't got to do much with it, going on 18 years.  Just collecting parts.  Someday I will.  Someday.   some day  some                day.

[wingsuit]

Thanks for all the replies. It's not the charger that's been listed, though don't know that it's any better since I found out it has no motor trans or suspension.

I'll take a look at it in person just cause I'm curious but I think my 71 240z should serve as a good first project. It's already in nice shape, the paint makes it look new in pics, just want to do some suspension, rear diff and motor work. I almost wish I bought more of a junker as I wouldn't feel as bad sticking it in the garage. Maybe next time once I figure out what I'm doing

[JR]

Wait, THAT'S your Z?

Holy hell man, it's beautiful.

I assume you're looking at swapping in an S13 rear subframe/diff, etc?

I'm not sure I would go that route as it will eliminate half your market when you go to sell it. I would stick with some tasteful classic JDM style mods, LSD, maybe some watanbe wheels, like a "Wangan Midnight" style build. Like this:






Enjoy the hell out of the Z, build it to appeal to both the younger tuner crowd, and the old guys who grew up with them, and then sell it and put the money in for a nice second gen when your ready. Driving and tuning that Z now will be a hell of alot more fun than putting a 68 charger shaped jigsaw puzzle together for the next ten years.

[Scaregrabber]

I bought a Challenger this way 3 years ago, did it and another one last year. It was a bit tricky but I got them both built. Thing is though I have been doing these cars for 40 years now. I think you could do it all right but it would really be handy if you knew someone near you that had a Charger you could reference as you put it together, next best is to come on here and ask lots of questions. Also a parts book and factory manual would be handy although not as thorough as they should be. Of course you can expect to have to hunt down a few parts though.
Cool 240, I bought my son a 260 as his first car and it was excellent for him to learn basics.  Then he bought a pretty much rust free 72 240 that he pulled apart and is swapping a 360-W-2 into.

Sheldon

[Dreamcar]

Since we're mentioning Zs, this was mine.

[brad mcintyre]

for 20 k you should find something that needs much les work in 2nd gen .1st gen it would buy turn key car not number 1 shape but maybe 2 .