Oregon’s $1,000 impact tax on 20-year-old vehicles

[Mopar Nut]

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/02/14/oregons-1000-impact-tax-on-20-year-old-vehicles-spiked-soon-after-introduction/?refer=news

[Troy]

Hmmm.... well, it died quickly but that seems a bit excessive! More than the value of some of those cars...

Which is likely the point. Newer cars generate more revenue and pollute less. Some people can't afford new cars - but if you make old cars more expensive then they have no choice. Same thing as raising gas taxes so more people turn to alternative fuels. It's manipulating a market.

Some of these comments are hilarious!
http://www.ktvz.com/news/mclane-blasts-democrats-proposed-1000-old-car-tax/325860804

Troy

[1974dodgecharger]

Hmmm.... well, it died quickly but that seems a bit excessive! More than the value of some of those cars...

Which is likely the point. Newer cars generate more revenue and pollute less. Some people can't afford new cars - but if you make old cars more expensive then they have no choice. Same thing as raising gas taxes so more people turn to alternative fuels. It's manipulating a market.

Some of these comments are hilarious!
http://www.ktvz.com/news/mclane-blasts-democrats-proposed-1000-old-car-tax/325860804

Troy

entertaining.....

[Highbanked Hauler]

  I was talking to a Vette owner at a Charlotte Nc. car show last year and if I understood him right he said that the county (most things are by county here) is using an evaluation sales guide  to set personal property tax on collector vehicles. It has been that a collector car is valued at $1000. and you pay whatever the rate is.  Now if the car is valued at 50K you could get stuck paying personal property tax on that much. Times are changing

[Aero426]

  I was talking to a Vette owner at a Charlotte Nc. car show last year and if I understood him right he said that the county (most things are by county here) is using an evaluation sales guide  to set personal property tax on collector vehicles. It has been that a collector car is valued at $1000. and you pay whatever the rate is.  Now if the car is valued at 50K you could get stuck paying personal property tax on that much. Times are changing

No revenue stream will be unexplored.   This also applies to whatever political party you think are "the good guys".   

[RallyeMike]

The same people who want to place this type of tax on old cars to save the environment are the same people who complain about tax inequities on the poor. What wealth class of people do they think owns most of the 20 year old cars? 

[cooldude]

Looks like just another control move to force people into computerized cars. More money for the tech companies, more control and spying on the people, and less freedom for everyone.

Oh yes, more taxes on the backs of the poor.

I can see why any corrupt politician would like this. 

[alfaitalia]

Looks like just another control move to force people into computerized cars. More money for the tech companies, more control and spying on the people, and less freedom for everyone.

Oh yes, more taxes on the backs of the poor.

I can see why any corrupt politician would like this. 

Lol....you have been watching too many Conspiracy Theory films!

[Mike DC]

Lol....you have been watching too many Conspiracy Theory films!

Nope, just observed US govt in action too long. 

[Charger RT]

of the 8 cars I own only one is less then 20 years old.
Tim

[Johnnymopar]

 I was talking to a Vette owner at a Charlotte Nc. car show last year and if I understood him right he said that the county (most things are by county here) is using an evaluation sales guide  to set personal property tax on collector vehicles. It has been that a collector car is valued at $1000. and you pay whatever the rate is.  Now if the car is valued at 50K you could get stuck paying personal property tax on that much. Times are changing

This is complete bs on the government's part.  Property tax I understand - water, sewer, garbage pickup city services, etc. etc.  Now they tax you yearly on a car you own outright, that is ludicrous!  How does one justify taxing a personal item like a car!?  Just for owning it!  I understand the sales tax when you buy it and insurance and road taxes when you drive it, but an ownership tax! Wow.  

I'm Canadian but if I remember my history right, didn't the American Revolution happen in large part to ludicrous taxes?  When people stop owning things I guess there will be a tax for breathing the air.  

[Kern Dog]

of the 8 cars I own only one is less then 20 years old.
Tim

This comment made me laugh. I have a similar inventory.

2007 Ram       10 years old.
1975 W200      42 years old.
1970 Charger   47 years old.
1973 Dart 340  44 years old.
1973 Swinger   44 years old.
1971 Duster     46 years old.
1967 Dart GT   50 years old.
1965 Dart        52 years old.
1965 Valiant     52 years old.

[BDF]

 I was talking to a Vette owner at a Charlotte Nc. car show last year and if I understood him right he said that the county (most things are by county here) is using an evaluation sales guide  to set personal property tax on collector vehicles. It has been that a collector car is valued at $1000. and you pay whatever the rate is.  Now if the car is valued at 50K you could get stuck paying personal property tax on that much. Times are changing

This is complete bs on the government's part.  Property tax I understand - water, sewer, garbage pickup city services, etc. etc.  Now they tax you yearly on a car you own outright, that is ludicrous!  How does one justify taxing a personal item like a car!?  Just for owning it!  I understand the sales tax when you buy it and insurance and road taxes when you drive it, but an ownership tax! Wow.  

I'm Canadian but if I remember my history right, didn't the American Revolution happen in large part to ludicrous taxes?  When people stop owning things I guess there will be a tax for breathing the air.  

THEY WANT TO TAX COW FARTS.

[alfaitalia]

Its the other way round here....cars OVER 40 years old don't even have to pay road tax. And pre 1960 they don't even have to annual safety inspection....not so keen on that one as not every old car owners is an enthusiast with a well maintained toy.

[cooldude]

Looks like just another control move to force people into computerized cars. More money for the tech companies, more control and spying on the people, and less freedom for everyone.

Oh yes, more taxes on the backs of the poor.

I can see why any corrupt politician would like this. 

Lol....you have been watching too many Conspiracy Theory films!

I dont think that the govt should use govt legal violence to socialengineer every single aspect of our lives, even forcing us to buy and drive cars to track us, spy on what is said in the cab, monitor everything we do and go, how fast we get there, and of course, all to funnel our money into the venues that the big shots just happen to make a huge profit from.

Did somebody say something about freedom in America, or was that just something I saw in an old movie once?

[alfaitalia]

Lol....unless they suspect you of doing something very bad they would neither care nor bother wasting expensive resources to listen to or track you.....even of they can....which I doubt on 99.9% of vehicles. And if you or someone has done something bad....like kill a member of your family....you might be glad the Government has that ability to find them.....if they do!!


I've noticed several of your posts with a similar.....the powers are out to get us...... theme. Live your life and don't worry about it! Even if its true...what can you do about it?....nothing, that's what!!

[timmycharger]

Lol....unless they suspect you of doing something very bad they would neither care nor bother wasting expensive resources to listen to or track you.....even of they can....which I doubt on 99.9% of vehicles. And if you or someone has done something bad....like kill a member of your family....you might be glad the Government has that ability to find them.....if they do!!

exactly..


just in case, you could always wear one of these..

[Mike DC]

 

unless they suspect you of doing something very bad they would neither care nor bother wasting expensive resources to listen to or track you..

That was true back when Orwell wrote '84. 


But Orwell didn't foresee modern software.

"Info/data laundering" is a thing now.

[XH29N0G]

Conspiracy?  Depends whose side you are on. 

[cooldude]

Lol....unless they suspect you of doing something very bad they would neither care nor bother wasting expensive resources to listen to or track you.....even of they can....which I doubt on 99.9% of vehicles. And if you or someone has done something bad....like kill a member of your family....you might be glad the Government has that ability to find them.....if they do!!


I've noticed several of your posts with a similar.....the powers are out to get us...... theme. Live your life and don't worry about it! Even if its true...what can you do about it?....nothing, that's what!!

For one thing, they are supposed to get a warrant to do that, ALA the 4th Amendment, which nobody seems to pay any attention to these days.

Secondly, our information is collected by non law enforcement, and often sold to people who market and advertise. Free market research, illegally gained.

And then there are the hackers and criminals.

So,dont try to brand me as some kind of nutter. Thats honestly, a dirty and dishonest tactic, and it wont work.

Im a reasonable American who cares about our Constitutional Rights, and our safety, and Im in the majority. Every decent and reasonable citizen feels the same. Key words being "decent and reasonable"

Im a veteran after all, and I did actually serve to protect our freedoms. I dont like to see them thrown away by crooked politicians who buy and sell our freedoms every day to the highest bidders, like stocks on the NYSE.

And then to get called some kind of nut case because I object to wrongdoing.

[Laowho]

Every state has career legislators and legislative sessions approaching 6-months on average. Moreover, legislative law has long since usurped many areas where common law once controlled. That's a lotta law bein made everywhere, the only real justification bein the legislatures/legislators themselves as assumed necessary/a given. And speakin of Orwell, check out his 1946 Politics and the English Language and see whether we haven't all been reduced to speaking like politicians and cops. No more cars, only "vehicles;" no more persons, only "individuals."  This doesn't require conspiracy theories, just a willingness to hear and see, unless of course part of the state rhetoric has also managed to convince you to surrender independent thought b/c slogans and labels are just easier for coping. But if so, any grade school student knows that doing so contributes absolutely nothing to public discourse, unless it's someone's aim to stifle it through ignorant ad hominem attacks. Gotta love a name-caller/accuser...cuz nobody else will. So no offense alfa, but we've all had enuf of bein told what to say and how to think, usually by people who neither know nor give a shit about us. That might be executive privilege, but when it's just neighbor on neighbor dictate, that might be mere rudeness of the chilling effect sort. Strange thing for a public forum. If, OTOH, you're concerned for your brother, I'm most happy to stand corrected. Maybe you're just a misunderstood genius, and think that "Don't worry, be happy" is the summum bonum of existence, but if so, where's the usefulness in trying to put others down with your own admitted (voluntary) ignorance of the questions involved? Or are you just bein a good and loyal subject of the crown and tryin to get cooldude to get back in step w/ the program? Conspiring minds wanna know.

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/

Cheers

[alfaitalia]

Okeedokee..............

[BDF]

I'm sure everything will be just fine when all the "rules" have been figured out.
https://www.regulations.gov/

[BDF]

 I was talking to a Vette owner at a Charlotte Nc. car show last year and if I understood him right he said that the county (most things are by county here) is using an evaluation sales guide  to set personal property tax on collector vehicles. It has been that a collector car is valued at $1000. and you pay whatever the rate is.  Now if the car is valued at 50K you could get stuck paying personal property tax on that much. Times are changing

This is complete bs on the government's part.  Property tax I understand - water, sewer, garbage pickup city services, etc. etc.  Now they tax you yearly on a car you own outright, that is ludicrous!  How does one justify taxing a personal item like a car!?  Just for owning it!  I understand the sales tax when you buy it and insurance and road taxes when you drive it, but an ownership tax! Wow.  

I'm Canadian but if I remember my history right, didn't the American Revolution happen in large part to ludicrous taxes?  When people stop owning things I guess there will be a tax for breathing the air.  

THEY WANT TO TAX COW FARTS.

Just in case anyone thought I was kidding or simply being crude:
http://www.naturalnews.com/055246_climate_change_cow_farts_greenhouse_gases.html

[XH29N0G]

The world is so complicated. 

Road use taxes on old cars, road use fees on electric and hybrid vehicles.  Cow fart taxes. 

I would hate to be the person who had to fill out that tax form:  "Instruction for line 78c.  Multiply the number of times your cows farted last year by 0.00034 and subtract the value of your cow fart exemption (line 78b), Instruction for line 79a, enter the value for line 78c, unless line 76d is higher.  Instruction for line 76d: multiply the age of your car by your standard deduction."

What am I going to do....

Notice I said nothing about conspiracies.  That is because I know something secret and am too scared to say. 

[BDF]

Would like to see Gov. Brown outfitted with one of these.
http://www.ecouterre.com/argentinas-methane-backpacks-turn-cow-farts-into-green-energy/

[Laowho]

Okeedokee..............

Glad you agree, cuz there wasn't anything in cooldude's original post that even begins to approximate the need for a conspiratorial explanation, unless everyone since Reagan is a conspiracy theorist re: too much big brother/government, which was was all that he said. Since when was a tinfoil hat needed to complain about that? But I get your dismissive drift/tone...duly noted, okeedokee? We're all indebted to you for your incisive contribution.

[Laowho]

 

[XH29N0G]

All this said, and joking aside.  We have a responsibility to the roads, environment, etc.... I live near a state line and I see the difference in roads going crossing it and others. Methane may not be the biggest concern facing us today, but it is something we should deal with as part of stewardship of our future and our kids futures.

Methane turns out to be quite important for energy budgets in the atmosphere.  It is not the only thing in the energy budgets, but something we should pay attention too.  There are big unknowns about the source terms.  Oil and Gas operations  say that they lose virtually nothing to the atmosphere (recover it al).  I work with some people who monitor methane in the air and pick up all sorts of plumes coming from those areas.  Recovering it would make them more money and would also reduce emissions.  Other people I interact with pick up plumes coming from urban areas where the likely candidate is leaky pipes, landfills, etc....  The leaky pipes are also lost $$.  There is technology to measure it (and to fingerprint some of its sources - including biogenic and ancient) that has been developed and this is what I am getting into.  It may be slowed in the near future because of the climate in government, but it will come back.   

The key is the big picture and the longer term picture.  We monitor methane here (I am not in Ca) because it is needed for policy decisions and because there are fees coming down the pipeline (some in place) on the states for this from the federal government.  These may go away in the short term, but in the long term they will come back. 

[Laowho]

Methane is the most egregious of compounds (for our purposes, b/c of the free radical halogenation cycle in the upper atmosphere), and research says sumthin like 35% of current methane release is attributable to the livestock industry in toto, but the bigger threat is the release of trapped methane in the permafrost, both sea bed and terrestrial. It's estimated that 95% of all ocean species, and 70% of all terrestrial species, went extinct during the Great Dying 250 million years ago--the greatest extinction event ever, and only known mass insect extinction--due to sea bed permafrost releases.

[cooldude]

I wonder what the eggheads and corrupt politicians would do about laying an old car tax on this Mopar...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idgdb--Ax84


A 1939 Dodge Electric truck.

Would they tax it anyways, despite it being electric?

I notice that every time the egghead politicians get a knee jerk idea to do something stupid, they always come up with the same old, lame excuses. Its usually "for the children", or "for your safety", and the old standby..."for the environment".

Many evils are committed in the name of these three.

So, I wonder what would the eggheads say if we all just converted our old Mopars to run electric? Maybe even solar charged them. Would they pass the stupid tax on old cars anyways, and just ignore the electric angle?

(I think they would)

[XH29N0G]

My guess is it depends what state they live in.  If they were able to register it as an antique in Oregon then it wouldn't be taxed. I don't know what the laws are on states that have road use fees for electric vehicles if they are antiques. I keep older vehicles because they are relatively cheap to operate.  My two youngest are a 2000 and a 1999, the other two are older - one with historic plates and the other not (not b/c it isn't old enough but b/c it is a daily driver and I follow the rules). Since I don't do much driving anyway, I have also thought that the next car will be electric or hybrid.  So I am likely to be taxed.  I was never into the SUV or stuff like that.  I know a strange mix for this car, but that is just how it is.

[BDF]

Looks like CA will try to tax ALL cars based on value. 
http://www.capoliticalreview.com/top-stories/browns-proposal-increases-gas-tax-by-43-percent-adds-new-fees/

[JB400]

I doubt that it'll pass.

[BDF]

I doubt that it'll pass.

Really?
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2017-04-06/vote-nears-for-california-gas-tax-fee-hike
This is probably why...
https://youtu.be/KyWPA-g-NFE

[cooldude]

California is so screwed up, that the rest of the country could use them as an example of what not to do.  

I bet little kids ( in the free part of America) think that, if they dont wash behind their ears and eat their vegetables,that they might wake up one morning, and realize to their horror, that they have turned into Californians!  

I am so amazed at the level of pure stupidity coming from California, that its just beyond words.

Are they really still part of America? They seem to be from a different planet you know?

[XH29N0G]

One thing I notice when I go on trips is the huge difference in quality of roads when crossing from one state to the next, and I don't like what it does to my car  . 

Having the ordinary driver foot the bill is just a symptom of system that is broken and broke ($$).  We have been living off the backs of our parent's infrastructure.  Someone is going to have to pick up and rebuild at some point, but the money has to come from somewhere. That's my rant. 

[cooldude]

I can remember the roads from 40 plus years ago, more pot holes on paved roads, and there were a lot of unpaved roads too. The unpaved roads could get pretty rough. I sort of figure that had some part in cars not lasting as many miles as todays cars usually do. Back then, a hundred grand on the odometer meant the car was usually worn out, if it made it that far.

But the cars back then were built beefier than todays cars, and that probably made them more able to handle the gravel roads, which were usually washboarded really bad.

Driving down an early 70s gravel road in a giant plume of dust, could be like a scene from Startrek, where Scotty comes up to the bridge and says "Shes breaking up captain.We canna take much more of this!" Everything rattling and shaking. Sometimes it might rattle a grandpas false teeth out.

But today,we are going to live in the scenario of the worst of both worlds.


With 20 Trillion in national debt on the books already, and most states also insolvent with debt, most corporations loaded up to their eyeballs in debt, and most consumers loaded to the limit in personal debt...and perhaps another 200 Trillion dollars in federal and state debt lurking in unfunded liabilities (pensions, retirement, etc), and perhaps 10 times that much debt in the bond and derivitives markets worldwide (thanks to the zero interest rate policies of central banks), I think we will probably see a total economic collapse, including the currency itself, before the roads get paved again.

So the roads will continue to get worse and worse.

Pot holes will begin to be able to destroy the cars undercarriage,making alignment impossible, or even actually wreck a car if it hits one at speed. Hitting the pot holes of the future will be like hitting a cow.

And all of this with todays lighter,more fragile, highly computerized (more sensitive) economy boxes that we drive today.

I dont think the cars of today can handle that sort of roads, and hold together long enough to rack up a hundred grand on the odometer. Makes you think twice about going out and taking on another 50 grand of debt for a new car or truck, dont it? Whats the point?