68 charger body but 69 vin?

[BDF]

Now this thread is back on track.

[cdr]

This is a LOT like a political discussion where two sides are set in their beliefs and neither is willing to concede. The grammar is worse though.   

The grammar is WORSER

[cbrestorations]

forealzies...

[crj1968]

Interesting- from Nevada DMV and other states wording is similar
---------------------
http://www.dmvnv.com/salvage.htm

Vehicles which have had certain repairs must be titled as Rebuilt even if they do not meet the definition of a salvage vehicle. This applies to any vehicle that has had one or more of the following major components replaced:

Cowl assembly;
Rear clip assembly;
Roof assembly;
Floor pan assembly;
Conventional frame coupled with one additional major component
Complete front inner structure for a unibody
These vehicles must be inspected by a licensed garage or body shop and the DMV using the Certificate of Inspection for Rebuilt Vehicles (Not Salvage). The existing title must be surrendered to the DMV, which will issue a title branded "Rebuilt".

A vehicle for which the only change is the installation of a truck cab assembly is not considered a rebuilt or salvage vehicle.
-----------
(Replacing a truck cab gets a pass on this for some reason....and a dash VIN swap  happens only in that case.)

Then there's this:

Older Vehicles
Vehicles 10 model years old or older are not considered salvage vehicles if the only repairs needed are a limited number of items. Specifically, the hood, the trunk lid, and/or up to two of the following: doors, grill assembly, bumper assembly, headlight assembly and taillight assembly.

If the vehicle requires more repairs than this, the 65 percent damage rule applies. For example, the 65 percent rule would apply if the grill, front bumper and one headlight assembly were replaced. If only the hood the grill and the bumper were replaced, the 65 percent rule would not apply and the vehicle would not be considered a salvage vehicle. The 65 percent rule does not include any cost of paint or labor to paint the vehicle.

--------------
Crazy stuff....and applies to just about every car on this site.


What say you about letter of law now?  Gonna go down and line up for your rebuilt title because of your new grille, bumper and headlight assembly?  

Just a floor pan replacement makes your car a salvage vehicle. 

[Kern Dog]

Good thing I only needed ONE fender and part of the trunk floor.
Holy crap, that was more specific than I thought. I'm impressed though.

[crj1968]

This is interesting as well

Caifornia.

http://www.shouselaw.com/tampering-vins


6. Defenses to VIN tampering charges

There are numerous defenses to charges of VIN tampering, especially under Vehicle Code 10802. These are just a few:

You defaced the VIN accidentally

Example: John decides to replace his dashboard because it is cracked. But he doesn't know how to remove it from the vehicle. He ends up smashing it with a hammer and accidentally damaging part of the VIN.

You tried to hide the vehicle's identity, but you didn't change the VIN

Example: Karla and Kenny robbed a convenience store. Afterward, they swapped license plates with another vehicle. Even though they tried to hide the car's identity (and are guilty of other crimes), they aren't guilty of VIN tampering because they did nothing to change or hide the VIN.

The VIN was previously altered by someone else

Example: Abe's hobby is buying cheap cars at auction, then fixing them up and selling them. While he is working on a car he bought, Abe notices that the VIN on the engine block doesn't match the VIN on the dashboard. He sells the car anyway. Since the VIN was already changed when Boris got it, he is not guilty of VIN tampering.

You weren't altering the VIN so that it could be sold

Example: Laurence stole a car so he wouldn't have to take the bus to work. To keep the car from being discovered, he altered a "3" in the VIN and made it look like an "8." Laurence has altered a VIN in violation of Vehicle Code 10750 VC. But because he wasn't doing it so that the car could be sold, he isn't guilty of violating Vehicle Code 10802.


The last one is especially interesting....he stole the car but didn't tamper the VIN with the intent to sell it. So it's a different charge.  
Stuff will make your head spin....and it's aimed at chop shops.

[cbrestorations]

seems like rebodies are no big deal in california then 

[crj1968]

seems like rebodies are no big deal in california then 

I'm sure it's all a case to case deal...where as said before someone must come forward blaming someone else of a crime.

But yeah, I see no difference between a truck cab and a unibody shell.  (dynacorn, used or otherwise)

Salvage laws are there for structural integrity and safety of course, the others are about intent.  Thus the reason for lawyers....

[cbrestorations]

funny how the thread kern dog started on forbbodies only has a totally different outlook...pretty much what ive been saying. happens everyday, everywhere with all classic car manufactures and nothing happens unless theres a stolen car involved. no one cares except the purists who would rather see a car die. maybe to raise the value of theirs 

[Kern Dog]

Chris, I don't want to see any classic die. There are replacement, reassigned VIN programs for this.  It is the casual, cavalier attitude that you and others have that makes it seem totally unimportant. It IS important. WHY do you think a car was originally assigned a VIN? THis is to differentiate it from another car. A pedigree car will hold more value than a pedestrian version of the same type.
Yes, I see many reasons that it is done, many are NOT to scam or defraud but instead to get a car registered easier. When a guy has great metal fab skills, it is very easy and may seem like no big deal. This can be compared to the Undercover cop that works Narcotics for several years seeing scumbags getting rich. After awhile, he skims a few bucks here and there and "nobody cares".  Maybe nobody does in cases like that but a law was still broken.
Seeing the multiple used up, thrashed Chargers that you buy, I'm sure that you do run across MANY cars without titles or VINs. It probably is very tempting. The uncle and his wrecking yard...I wonder how many cars in the yard were bought for a few bucks and a handshake without any title or actual paperwork. I notice that you have yet to divulge his name or the name of the business. I wasn't asking just so I could post up a poor "yelp"review like some Millenial snowflake jerkoff, I actually like walking around old junkyards like that.
I respect your skills and your enthusiasm. Your online videos show you to be an eager guy getting stuff done in his own garage. I like that. You are a catching on to the fact that the Mopar crowd are usually more proud about their heritage than the GM or Jeep crowd. Most here don't care for Mopars with alternative engines. Imagine the outrage if the feds mandate delectric motor swaps for all cars!

[cdr]

Chris, I don't want to see any classic die. There are replacement, reassigned VIN programs for this.  It is the casual, cavalier attitude that you and others have that makes it seem totally unimportant. It IS important. WHY do you think a car was originally assigned a VIN? THis is to differentiate it from another car. A pedigree car will hold more value than a pedestrian version of the same type.
Yes, I see many reasons that it is done, many are NOT to scam or defraud but instead to get a car registered easier. When a guy has great metal fab skills, it is very easy and may seem like no big deal. This can be compared to the Undercover cop that works Narcotics for several years seeing scumbags getting rich. After awhile, he skims a few bucks here and there and "nobody cares".  Maybe nobody does in cases like that but a law was still broken.
Seeing the multiple used up, thrashed Chargers that you buy, I'm sure that you do run across MANY cars without titles or VINs. It probably is very tempting. The uncle and his wrecking yard...I wonder how many cars in the yard were bought for a few bucks and a handshake without any title or actual paperwork. I notice that you have yet to divulge his name or the name of the business. I wasn't asking just so I could post up a poor "yelp"review like some Millenial snowflake jerkoff, I actually like walking around old junkyards like that.
I respect your skills and your enthusiasm. Your online videos show you to be an eager guy getting stuff done in his own garage. I like that. You are a catching on to the fact that the Mopar crowd are usually more proud about their heritage than the GM or Jeep crowd. Most here don't care for Mopars with alternative engines. Imagine the outrage if the feds mandate delectric motor swaps for all cars!

well said !!!! 

[cbrestorations]

as someone that replaces metal. the cost of metal replacement get really really really...did i say really already...expensive. 2 quarters, trunk pan, extentions, valance, corners, rear window filler, floor, rear valance supports and wheel wells is a typical rusty car metal replacement stuff totalling $3000 alone. most people dont have the knowledge to replace these parts themselves so they have to pay others to do it. with labor and parts expense its going to be over 10k. that is why rebodies happen, not everyone is willing to spend that kind of money to pay on getting their car fixed or if the person has the knowledge they will be spending hundreds of hrs fixing their own car...that is why rebodies happen. same result...half the cost and half the time. now a days with the cost of chargers, not as many rebodies happening now i would think due to the cost of clean metal cars.

[Lennard]

Damned Chris, I should have done that
Would have saved me over 10k.

[DAY CLONA]

as someone that replaces metal. the cost of metal replacement get really really really...did i say really already...expensive. 2 quarters, trunk pan, extentions, valance, corners, rear window filler, floor, rear valance supports and wheel wells is a typical rusty car metal replacement stuff totalling $3000 alone. most people dont have the knowledge to replace these parts themselves so they have to pay others to do it. with labor and parts expense its going to be over 10k. that is why rebodies happen, not everyone is willing to spend that kind of money to pay on getting their car fixed or if the person has the knowledge they will be spending hundreds of hrs fixing their own car...that is why rebodies happen. same result...half the cost and half the time. now a days with the cost of chargers, not as many rebodies happening now i would think due to the cost of clean metal cars.

A rebody onto a super clean rust free donor body is the ultimate resto IMHO: FACTORY sheetmetal, FACTORY welds, FACTORY assembled, FACTORY correct, FACTORY nuances, all the FACTORY originality that purists strive to duplicate when "Frankenstein-ing" a hodge-podge of NOS, repro and used original steel components from several sources onto their so-called "restored original" numbers matching ride...A vehicle is legally defined by it's paperwork nothing more, nothing less, not it's sheetmetal, if you own the paperwork then everything else is replaceable, so IMHO if you want to roll a clean donor under the VIN tag, then have at it...rebodies are and have been an accepted practice from the dawn of the automobile, and always will be...the VIN laws were (ill) written with the "intention" of thwarting/deterring theft, not John Q. Public restoring some old junk in his garage/shop that he holds the legal paperwork/titles to...they're nothing but machines, machines to be repaired in what ever matter deemed necessary by the legal owner of record

[cbrestorations]

Very well said dayclona

[cdr]

I agree to disagree

[Mopar Nut]

I agree to disagree

[hemi-hampton]

I agree to disagree

[cbrestorations]

 

[crj1968]

I agree to disagree

But if you are "to the letter of the law" then any car with parts replaced such as just a floor pan, should have a "salvage" title.
 

[cdr]

 

[cbrestorations]

Just like chucky, this badass fully loaded r/t chargers soul will get revived into another body

[crj1968]

Vehicles which have had certain repairs must be titled as Rebuilt even if they do not meet the definition of a salvage vehicle. This applies to any vehicle that has had one or more of the following major components replaced:

Cowl assembly;
Rear clip assembly;
Roof assembly;
Floor pan assembly;
Conventional frame coupled with one additional major component
Complete front inner structure for a unibody
These vehicles must be inspected by a licensed garage or body shop and the DMV using the Certificate of Inspection for Rebuilt Vehicles (Not Salvage). The existing title must be surrendered to the DMV, which will issue a title branded "Rebuilt".

--------------------------

It''s not a dead horse, because no one wants to answer the question....

Do you believe every car that has had the floor pan replaced (or even a few bolt on parts)  should have a branded salvage/rebuilt title as the law states?  Yes or No?  

Then the horse will be dead.....for a while.  

[Kern Dog]

Very well said dayclona

Very well said?
Well, that is ONE opinion. It is only an accepted practice by those with no respect for the law or the unique identity of each vehicle. If a man replaces his wife, does he call the new wife by the same name?

[cbrestorations]

If the wife you loved dearly died...would you bring her back to life if you could? Analogies work both ways...