It's official! The great white is getting EFI and a manual 6 speed

[Dino]

As some of you know, my car's been on jack stands ever since I started grad school last May. And although I may have some time to tinker with it here and there in my upcoming second year of school, I really won't be able to put a good amount of time in it until after graduation and the certification exam. Heck, I may not even have a ton of time then since I'm actually supposed to go get a job but dammit I want my car back so I'll make time!   

Anyway, the car has its freshly rebuilt and painted engine and trans in place and the interior is still out because I have to finish up the power window install and the alarm and GPS and stuff. I don't have a carb for it either and I always wanted EFI a T-56 instead of the 727. So yesterday my wife and I are talking about the car and she said why are you putting the whole car back together to then take it back apart to fit a new trans? And why spend money on a carb when you can get EFI now? We both hate the fuel smell and are kinda tired of our clothes reeking of fuel. Especially since I tend to drive this thing to work a lot. I didn't have a good answer for her so it looks like I'll be dropping that freshly cleaned up 727 before it ever saw the road, and cutting my trans tunnel! Looks like I'm also removing the new gas tank that has a whopping 50 miles on it if that.   

I could've saved myself a ton of work by not doing the trans but oh well. Apologies to Jeff for helping me muscle the trans in...for nothing.   

But damn! A 6 speed AND EFI behind my 440? This sucker's gonna rock!   

Now I need to find a good trans with the right gears. I'm not sure if I need to go all out and get the Viper version or if a Trans Am or Camaro trans will do. My wife's T/A has a T56 and is way quicker off the line than my Charger so I'm assuming it'll hold up behind my nearly stock 440. I shouldn't be pushing more than 400 hp and 500 torque, if that. It's basically a stock '71 HP with a Crower HDP271, stock '71 intake manifold, and HP exhaust manifolds. Around 9:1 static compression. Stock exhaust. Nothing more than a fun driver. I drive it like a regular car with the occasional pedal mash from a stop out here in the country. Honestly the 727 works great and is a lot of fun in town with the current 3.23 gears, but it's not so much fun on the highway and I really miss driving a stick.

I'll probably be looking for a sure grip as well. My open 3.23s with 28" tall tires is not going to be the ideal setup and take advantage of the extra gears, but it's not the worst either I suppose. The T/A has about the same size tire as the Charger and I think the gears are in the 3.5 range so I should go with a 3.55 as I like the rpm that car is running in town and on the highway.

I recall Keepat had a very cool way of adapting his trans tunnel for one of these and I believe he kept the console as well. I may be wrong, I'll have to look through his Bullitt thread.

I'm not starting this project any time soon, but it's probably a good idea to start planning.

[1970Moparmann]

Very cool!    You only live once.    Hot Rod Power Tour is in your future!

[cbrestorations]

3.55 is too low for a 6 speed, 3.73 is even too low. if you have a decent cammed engine ur gonna need atleast 3.91's. the t56 has a .63 overdrive so .63x3.91= 2.46 final. the swap i did for a friend, he has 3.73's and hardly ever uses 6th gear even on the freeway local driving. with his cam in 6th gear below 70mph it bucks till the rpms get higher to around 80mph. the swap i did using a tr6060 will need 4.30's, the tr6060 has a .5 overdrive so a 4.30 turns into a 2.15 final.

i dont really like 6 speed. in order to get the 6th gear final ratio nice you are killing 1st gear. the 5 speeds have better ratio's

[JR]

I have no experience with the six speed, but I can promise you that you'll LOVE the EFI Dino. It's fantastic. Ive never been so pleased with a modification as I am with EFI.

What setup are you looking at?

[XH29N0G]

I hadn't thought about the gears.  I am using 4:30's with a 0.62 5 speed and it works well in 5th above 50.  Some of the lower limit on mine is related to the engine set up.  Mine is not radical, but I think it were a little milder (and had EFI) it would work well at lower speeds without feeling like it was lugging.  If you change the gearing, you will also want to make sure the angles and balance on the driveshaft are right.  I don't know about lighter driveshafts, but wonder whether that would have saved a lot of chasing down issues for me.  Once set up, it is great though.

You will have a lot of fun with it.

[Dino]

Thanks for the info cb, that's good to know. I'm not opposed to installing a 5 speed, I just don't know which would be the ideal candidate.

I agree that a 6th gear is not necessary, but I really like how the T-56 shifts and I like the ratio in the T/A. There's certainly nothing wrong with a steeper gear to get quicker off the line. However, and this is really important to me, I do not want to have to shift three gears before I hit 30 mph.  

I will never race this car and I want to make sure it drives like a solid daily. But please keep the gear and trans info coming, I want to learn.  

JR I think the setup you have is what I'm going with. I don't have the time or patience to build a sequential system and after reading your feedback I was sold on it. I'd like to get the tank with the built in pump as well. Is that what you have?

[Dino]

Yeah gearing is something I really need to be educated on XH. I really thought the T/A had around the 3.5 mark and it's really nice. I neglected to mention that we don't use 6th gear unless we're on the highway at decent speed. I barely runs 1500 rpm at 75 or so, so there's definitely room to add gear. But I should see what rpm it's running in 1-5th gear.

I actually have a nice set of open 3:55s in the shed that I can try. Won't cost me anything.

I have read about the driveline angle issues so that's definitely something to plan well. I'd hate to have this thing vibrate.

[JR]

Yes Dino, Im using the Tanks Inc setup with the 630hp rated Walbro fuel pump. It's been a great setup, and it's a very clean install.

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=484/category_id=146/mode=prod/prd484.htm

Only thing to keep in mind is, order the cork gaskets for the sending unit/fuel pump, instead of using the rubber ones that are supplied. The rubber ones will break down after exposure to modern ethanol type fuel. Using the cork ones are foolproof. (I also use aircraft sealer on them, makes for a great seal.)

And you can use reproduction fuel line, with AN hoses on either end, just make sure the hard lines are steel, not aluminum. The feed line must be atleast 3/8, and the return line must be atleast 5/16.

Personally, I really like 3/8 for feed and return lines. That's what mine is now, and I noticed after I upsized the return line, the fuel pump ran MUCH quieter. With the smaller return line, sometimes the pump would groan on a really hot day after 2 hours of driving. Now I can drive all day, and the fuel pump stays quiet.

[birdsandbees]

Sounds like you found a good one as well Dirk!!  

As for the car stuff.. that's secondary to what the two of us seem to have backing us up in life!  

Wayne

[lukedukem]

What are you gonna do with that automatic

Luke

[Dino]

You bet Wayne! I've got a keeper for sure.  

Thanks JR  

I installed oem steel fuel lines a few years back, 3/8 in and 1/4 out so I'll have to replace the latter. I'm not opposed to yanking both lines out and running something else that would be better. I just installed these because I was running a single 5/16 line (originally a 318 car), and I wanted dual lines with a vapor separator. Dammit I just realized I need to remove the mechanical pump now. I could've just left all that crap off...  

I was going to ask you about noise. I do not want to hear that pump at all, it drives me crazy. With the dual 3/8 line is it dead quiet at all times?

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the entire EFI setup cost? Around $2K?

[Dino]

What are you gonna do with that automatic

Luke

I'm not sure yet. Once I have all the manual parts I'll probably sell it, I don't have any use for it. But I'm not doing so until I'm positive I can have the manual. If for whatever reason something comes up and I have to wait with that upgrade, like a market crash, I'll at least be able to drive the car with the auto.

[XH29N0G]

I wasn't advocating a 5 speed although they are fine too.  

I just took a look at the gearing and the T56 looks like it has a nice set of ranges.  For the 0.64 final, the 5th on the T56 looks to be inserted between the 4th and the 5th on the 5 speed.  I think this would be nicer on the highway and give another option.  the 5 speed is like a 4 speed with an overdrive.  

[1970Moparmann]

I have a TKO600 5 Speed, and wish I bought the 6 speed.   I have 3.73 gears.   When doing a good amount of highway driving, the 6th gear would be nice.   

[Dino]

I was thinking about the 5 speed but then realized how many times I chose not to do a long trip because of the lack of gears. The 6th gear would be awesome on those long trips.   

I just looked up the T-56 gearing and i looks like I have options. Not all are created equally though so I should probably either buy a new trans or find a nice Viper unit or the same unit as my wife's car. Same ratio and torque rating with a .50 6th gear. This is gonna cost a few nickels.      

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg-Warner_T-56_transmission

[JR]

If youre going to run AN hoses all the way Dino, be sure to get the ones that are coated internally to prevent ethanol fuel from eating it. Some an hoses break down, and fuel smell will start seeping through the rubber, along with dislodged rubber particles coming through the line.

Personally, I bought standard AN hose, but I kept 2 OE 3/8 hard lines to run the majority of the length, minimized the length of AN lines I needed, and use ethanol free fuel when possible. Been working great for over a year now.

Cost wise, I went with the FiTech power adder 30004, which is currently at 1200. The fuel tank/pump setup is around 500. It's easy to eat a couple hundred bucks in various fittings and AN hose, so may as well figure 2k. (Although you could save a couple hundred bucks if you got the standard FITech without timing control.)

Some will say to buy the "Fuel Command Module" instead, and keep your stock lines/fuel system. I really don't like that idea for numerous reasons. (An extra fuel pump to fail, fuel is kept underhood in the hottest place, big ugly tank taking up space in the engine bay, etc.)

It's totally worth the cost though. I haven't fiddled with the carb, changed jets, or got out of the car smelling like fuel once since I installed it. I drove the car for 2.5 hours yesterday, and didn't have to change clothes afterwards to get rid of the fuel smell, which alone makes it worth it. Plus, the exhaust smell doesn't burn my eyes anymore.

Noise wise, I can hear the pump when I turn the switch on, but once the engine is running I can't hear it at all. But having the fuel pump submersed in the fuel makes it MUCH quieter. I have no complaints about the noise at all. It's nothing at all like an old external mount Holley Blue pump.

[Dino]

It's definitely worth it just to get rid of the smell. My car has always had it real bad, no matter what carb I was running. I couldn't drive with my windows down unless on the highway. The only way to keep the smell out was to keep the windows up and the a/c on which is fine when it's 95 out, but sucks when it's a nice 75. That just asks for windows down.   

I'll go with 3/8 steel lines, the oem type seem to do fine with the fuel I'm running. I'll be sure to get coated AN lines, thanks for the tip. I didn't like the idea of the command center either. Seems that the entire setup is not all that bad cost wise, at least for what you're getting. I also drive the car in winter before the snow hits but that means 30 degree mornings. It'll be nice to have it start and drive a bit better when it's that cold.

The trans is going to be another story, that's going to be a hefty price tag AND will need some serious mods to the car, but I think it's so worth it. I can't wait!

After all is said and done this car will have a well tuned 440 with a 6 speed, EFI, one touch power windows with remote control capabilities, alarm system, remote starter, remote door and trunk locks, and hidden GPS. Apart from the GPS everything has been installed and tested. I just need to move the alarm modules to its permanent location, install the auxiliary fuse box, and run the feed wires for it. Yeah this is gonna be a blast.   

Oh, sinceI just installed these Mopar ribbed cast aluminum valve covers, can I run the matching air cleaner with the EFI system? Do you have underhood pics of yours by the way? Now would be a good time to adapt the electrical where needed.

[INTMD8]

i dont really like 6 speed. in order to get the 6th gear final ratio nice you are killing 1st gear. the 5 speeds have better ratio's

Have to agree, I would probably go with a 5 speed as well. Easier to get a mechanical speedo output and likely less work to fit in the tunnel.

If you really want the 6 speed a stock T56 would probably live but the later 6060/Magnum is an upgrade.

Use teflon braded a/n hose if you want to eliminate the possibility of fuel odor.

[JR]

Those electronics sound awesome. The GPS tracking, remote start and locking feature would be awesome. What system do you recommend if I wanted to duplicate that?

Does the GPS system require a subscription service?

[darbgnik]

So I was pretty sure there were many ratio options available in the T56 besides overdrive, as I know even between Vipers with the TR6060 there are different 5th gear options as well, but I figured I'd dig before I posted, and I found this, depending on which T56 you get, you'll want a different rear end ratio, as these are just the GM versions:


Application                                             First        Second      Third       Fourth     Fifth       Sixth
1993 F-body(2.73 rear)                          3.36:1      2.07:1      1.35:1     1.00:1    0.80:1     0.62:1
1993 F-body(3.23 rear)                          2.97:1      2.07:1      1.43:1     1.00:1    0.80:1     0.62:1
1994–1997 F-body                                 2.66:1      1.78:1      1.30:1     1.00:1    0.74:1     0.50:1
1997–2004 Corvette                               2.66:1      1.78:1      1.30:1     1.00:1    0.74:1     0.50:1
1998–2002 F-body                                 2.66:1      1.78:1      1.30:1     1.00:1    0.74:1     0.50:1
2001–2004 Corvette Z06                        2.97:1      2.07:1      1.43:1     1.00:1    0.84:1     0.56:1
2004–2006 Cadillac CTS-V                      2.97:1      2.07:1      1.43:1     1.00:1    0.84:1     0.56:1
2004–2006 GTO                                    2.97:1       2.07:1      1.43:1     1.00:1    0.84:1     0.56:1


http://www.hotrod.com/articles/everything-you-need-to-know-about-selecting-a-t56-for-your-gm-project/

[Dino]

I'm running an Avital 5303L alarm which comes with one LCD fob and one regular fob. It has loads of options like alarm going off when you open the hood and such. It also has options like tilt sensor, glass break sensor and a bunch more. Cool stuff. There's several alarms like this like Viper etc. They're all fine. The window modules are DEI 530T's and one operates two windows so I got two of them. I'm using stock switches that now operate like modern car switches. With the remote you can vent the windows about an inch or open them all the way. When you lock the car the roll up automatically although there's an option to leave them down.
I'm not using a subscription GPS, I'm rigging up my own system that I can track with my phone or laptop. There's many ways to do this so google around for homemade GPS systems. You can wire in an old cellphone even to keep it cheap. I try not to post GPS details online.  
However once I have it narrowed down I'll be happy to pm you.

I'm also installing a hydroboost system and big discs all around. I'm assuming I'll need a clutch reservoir under the system so I'll have to look into that to make sure everything fits. I'd like to get stock 4 speed pedals to keep something a bolt in at least. There's gonna be a lot of fabbing to do. I think the trans crossmember needs to be cut out of the tunnel to fit this monster trans.

Thanks for that Darbgnik, my wife's is the 5th one down.   

[birdsandbees]

0.62:1 would have had me dead in 1979 !!!  1 to 1 with 2.94's had the speedo wrapped back to Zero.. 

[Dino]

I think I can get this thing to lift off with that trans! Let's not find out.   

[JR]

Great info Dino. I understand about keeping the GPS stuff secret, no problem there.

I've always wanted remote start and door/trunk unlock. With EFI and my auto transmission, that should be an easy add on. Its on my list of stuff to add. Hopefully I can get to that soon, thanks.

[Dino]

It's real easy to do, except that once more you'll be taking half the car apart to reach all the wires you need! The remote door unlock was pretty straightforward. I just got 2 heavy duty motors off ebay which came with a few rods, brackets, and screws. I looked at the best way to mount them which was straight onto the unlock pull rod and it works like a charm. I have pics of it on here somewhere...

The alarm is also pretty easy, you just need to splice in a bunch of wires and run some dedicated power wires. Same with the window modules. I went the safe route and ran dedicated power wires for everything so each had its own fuse as well. In case something goes poof it won't take me long to find the culprit.

Oh and the trunk lock came out of an 80s Chrysler. A diplomat I think. Straight bolt in, couldn't be easier.

[crj1968]

Cool Dino- look forward to seeing how it turns out ! 

[Dino]

Me too!   

Work won't start for a long time to come but at least there's a plan!

[tan top]

 

[funknut]

Nice!  A T56 is a long-term goal of mine as well, but probably still several years off into the future.

EFI is higher up on the list and work will start this fall.  Definitely the top 2 remaining mods to improve drivability.

Glad you have a plan, your wife sounds like a good influence. 

[cbrestorations]

i wanted a jerico 5 speed till i saw the price...eeeshh. stuck with a jerico 4 speed for now

[71 SE3834V]

I could've saved myself a ton of work by not doing the trans but oh well. Apologies to Jeff for helping me muscle the trans in...for nothing.   

Just another day at the office!

[darbgnik]

i wanted a jerico 5 speed till i saw the price...eeeshh. stuck with a jerico 4 speed for now

What price range are they in?

[1974dodgecharger]

whats wrong with spinning 3k rpms going 80mph, lmao...come on DINO......

good choice man....on the 6 speed im getting that in also 

[timmycharger]

  Great plan Dirk!

[Dino]

My wallet disagrees...but YEAH!   

[Dino]

whats wrong with spinning 3k rpms going 80mph, lmao...come on DINO......

good choice man....on the 6 speed im getting that in also 

Sweet!   

What's the story with your engine by the way? What happened after you blew up the 383?

[BrianShaughnessy]

Congrats and good luck with the plans.   

I really loved the T56 in my 89 Formula I swapped in...    but don't have to cut up T-bar crossmembers or trans tunnels on a F-body.   

I settled on the TKO... but that was like 10 years ago now... so far so good.   Although I miss that 5th gear inbetween 4th and 6th with the TKO...  driving around 50 is semi annoying going back and forth.

Thinking about EFI myself too....

[Dino]

Congrats and good luck with the plans.   

I really loved the T56 in my 89 Formula I swapped in...    but don't have to cut up T-bar crossmembers or trans tunnels on a F-body.   

I settled on the TKO... but that was like 10 years ago now... so far so good.   Although I miss that 5th gear inbetween 4th and 6th with the TKO...  driving around 50 is semi annoying going back and forth.

Thinking about EFI myself too....

Thanks Brian!   

Are you thinking of adding EFI to cinnamon?

[BrianShaughnessy]

Congrats and good luck with the plans.   

I really loved the T56 in my 89 Formula I swapped in...    but don't have to cut up T-bar crossmembers or trans tunnels on a F-body.   

I settled on the TKO... but that was like 10 years ago now... so far so good.   Although I miss that 5th gear inbetween 4th and 6th with the TKO...  driving around 50 is semi annoying going back and forth.

Thinking about EFI myself too....

Thanks Brian!   

Are you thinking of adding EFI to cinnamon?

Next Sinnamon project is to get the AC working.  But EFI sounds awesome too

[Dino]

It's a never ending journey isn't it? 

Getting my heater and A/C working was definitely one of the highlights.   

[plumsun3]

I have a Keisler Tremec 5 spd. in my 4.10 trackpack car. Thinking of going to 3.55 because not much gap between 1st and 2nd and car has enough power through most anything.
Plans for my son's '74 Cuda will be for a Gen 3 Hemi again with the 5 speed. Don't see the need for extra gear considering complicated size difference between transmissions and even having to keep shifting.

[Dino]

I'm not opposed to a 5 speed, but I don't see anything wrong with the extra overdrive. I like being able to do 85 with 3.55 gears turning only 1800 rpm. That makes for very enjoyable long trips (which I like to do). Still, depending on ease of installation, cost, and available gear ratios I will definitely look into the 5 speed. The whole package needs to make sense. A used Viper T-56 and all the necessary parts will cost me well over $4K.

[Ryan.C]

I'm not opposed to a 5 speed, but I don't see anything wrong with the extra overdrive. I like being able to do 85 with 3.55 gears turning only 1800 rpm. That makes for very enjoyable long trips (which I like to do). Still, depending on ease of installation, cost, and available gear ratios I will definitely look into the 5 speed. The whole package needs to make sense. A used Viper T-56 and all the necessary parts will cost me well over $4K.

I paid about 3K for my T56 swap. It looks difficult but once you get going its really not bad. The hardest part for me was cutting up a clean floor.

Trans-1,500 (2004 Viper W/15K miles)
Quick Time bell housing- $550
Cross member $300
McLeod clutch $300
440 Source flywheel $100
Drive Shaft (made locally) $400

[1974dodgecharger]

whats wrong with spinning 3k rpms going 80mph, lmao...come on DINO......

good choice man....on the 6 speed im getting that in also 

Sweet!   

What's the story with your engine by the way? What happened after you blew up the 383?

complete overhaul with new magnum force front and rear setup coil overs, dana 60 custom cut, 6 piston front brakes, 4 pistons rears, 12.88inch rotors all around, getting new 18inch custom cut rims, then later this year 6 speed T56 install, then save up for the 572 HEMI with 1471 blower injected....or get a junk 440 in there and run with that for awhile.... 

[Dino]

I'm not opposed to a 5 speed, but I don't see anything wrong with the extra overdrive. I like being able to do 85 with 3.55 gears turning only 1800 rpm. That makes for very enjoyable long trips (which I like to do). Still, depending on ease of installation, cost, and available gear ratios I will definitely look into the 5 speed. The whole package needs to make sense. A used Viper T-56 and all the necessary parts will cost me well over $4K.

I paid about 3K for my T56 swap. It looks difficult but once you get going its really not bad. The hardest part for me was cutting up a clean floor.

Trans-1,500 (2004 Viper W/15K miles)
Quick Time bell housing- $550
Cross member $300
McLeod clutch $300
440 Source flywheel $100
Drive Shaft (made locally) $400

I'm not afraid of the work. I'll have to buy or rent a mig welder but that's about the only hurdle. I do hope I can keep the tunnel cutting behind the firewall. I just painted that thing!

Cost has gone up a bit since you've done this. I've only seen two transmissions and with shipping they are around $2400. And that's for a 1st gen viper. Isn't the later model a tr6060 and longer? What ratios does your trans have?
Bell housing is around $750 now, no idea on the other parts. I need pedals as well, and everything else that goes with it. A quick glance on ebay tells me the pedals are around $400. It adds up fast, but so will the smiles.   

I'm not opposed to a 5 speed, but I don't see anything wrong with the extra overdrive. I like being able to do 85 with 3.55 gears turning only 1800 rpm. That makes for very enjoyable long trips (which I like to do). Still, depending on ease of installation, cost, and available gear ratios I will definitely look into the 5 speed. The whole package needs to make sense. A used Viper T-56 and all the necessary parts will cost me well over $4K.

I paid about 3K for my T56 swap. It looks difficult but once you get going its really not bad. The hardest part for me was cutting up a clean floor.

Trans-1,500 (2004 Viper W/15K miles)
Quick Time bell housing- $550
Cross member $300
McLeod clutch $300
440 Source flywheel $100
Drive Shaft (made locally) $400

Dayum son! Are you trying to win the Cannonball? 
Good stuff, can't wait to see that build thread.   

[Ryan.C]

I don't know about winning any cannon ball races. As fun as that sounds and all. 

I picked up my trans from Don Scharf Automotive inc. Its an outfit out of Wisconsin that seems to specialize in parting out crashed Vipers. I gave them a call to get a quick price check but I guess they are on lunch. Anyway the phone number is 715-479-8597, they were very helpful and easy to work with.

I had to wait about a week before my trans shipped because they were still disassembling the crashed car. I had them put include the slave and master cyl for the clutch with all of the attached hardware they even threw in the driveshaft. All at no additional cost.

[Ryan.C]

I just checked the website they have a 2004 trans with 15,500 miles for $1775 ready to go!

[darbgnik]

Cost has gone up a bit since you've done this. I've only seen two transmissions and with shipping they are around $2400. And that's for a 1st gen viper. Isn't the later model a tr6060 and longer? What ratios does your trans have?
Bell housing is around $750 now, no idea on the other parts. I need pedals as well, and everything else that goes with it. A quick glance on ebay tells me the pedals are around $400. It adds up fast, but so will the smiles.   

Not too sure about first and second gen Vipers, but I do know the 2003-2006 Vipers have a T56, and the 2008-current Vipers have the TR6060. Under the skin, the 2008-2010 (Gen 4) are closer to the 2013 to current (Gen 5) Vipers than they are to the  2003-2006 (Gen 3). But aside from the hood, the Gen 4 looks just like the Gen 3.

[Dino]

I just checked the website they have a 2004 trans with 15,500 miles for $1775 ready to go!

What's the torque rating on those? According to the wiki article the older ones have a rating of 550 while later ones were only rated at 450. Which is odd.

[Dino]

By the way, the same seller has that same trans on ebay for $1900 + $350 for shipping. I just got a lead on one locally with low miles, but it's just the trans, nothing else. We'll see what he's asking.

[darbgnik]

What's the torque rating on those? According to the wiki article the older ones have a rating of 550 while later ones were only rated at 450. Which is odd.

The 2003 Vipers had 505hp and 525lb ft, so they should at least handle that. Many guys toss superchargers into the mix with those 345 rear section steam rollers and they seem to hold together well...
The TR6060 is a heavier duty unit, but it's also larger.

[Dino]

Excellent! Thanks for that info. I think I'll stick with a T56, it's big enough as it is.  

I just spoke to the guy local who has a 2004 trans. It's got 2K miles on it. It was replaced under warranty when it made a noise in 2nd gear. It turned out to be the master cylinder. The trans was never opened. The only thing they did was check for metal in the oil which it didn't have. He's asking $1800. Not sure what to do with this. I checked online and found that this master thing is quite common and doesn't seem to damage the gear itself, but I know nothing about these things. I guess I never know what I get when I buy a used trans.

The price isn't bad though.

[Ryan.C]

I just checked the website they have a 2004 trans with 15,500 miles for $1775 ready to go!

What's the torque rating on those? According to the wiki article the older ones have a rating of 550 while later ones were only rated at 450. Which is odd.

.

[Dino]

Ok so I'm not sure what to do here. I won't be able to start all this modification for a while. Absolute best case scenario I will have some spare time during clinical rotations that start late May. But more than likely I'll still be too busy and I won't be able to touch the car until June or July of 2018. There's still a lot more to do than the trans and efi conversions as well. Some suspension work, all of the brake work, and some electrical. Not sure if I want to do the interior just yet. It's functional.

So would it be best to buy a transmission now or wait until I actually need it? The price is likely going up as time goes on but that's not always a given. What would you guys do? It'll be a bit easier to spend money after school but if the best time is now I'll certainly try to get as many parts as possible early on. The bellhousing alone has gone up a few hundred bucks in the last 2-3 years as well.

[darbgnik]

If there's no hurry, now would be a good time to window shop around the net, and see how the baseline prices go, if you keep an eye on it, a screaming deal should jump out at you, and you'll know.

[Ryan.C]

Ok so I'm not sure what to do here. I won't be able to start all this modification for a while. Absolute best case scenario I will have some spare time during clinical rotations that start late May. But more than likely I'll still be too busy and I won't be able to touch the car until June or July of 2018. There's still a lot more to do than the trans and efi conversions as well. Some suspension work, all of the brake work, and some electrical. Not sure if I want to do the interior just yet. It's functional.

So would it be best to buy a transmission now or wait until I actually need it? The price is likely going up as time goes on but that's not always a given. What would you guys do? It'll be a bit easier to spend money after school but if the best time is now I'll certainly try to get as many parts as possible early on. The bellhousing alone has gone up a few hundred bucks in the last 2-3 years as well.

Dont be in a HURRY.

My initial plan was to run a 383 W/833 I got from a friend that pulled it from a 69 roadrunner back in '86. Now I have a 440 W/T56 that I really want to run EFI in but bought the carb to soon. The EFI will have to wait until next year and that is just the drive train.

[Troy]

Just put it back together and drive it! Buy all the parts when you find good deals then tear it all down and replace things at one time. (Actually, I'd do the EFI and transmission completely separately as the EFI is likely less invasive.) It's too easy for a simple fix to turn into 5 years with the car apart and not being able to enjoy it.

Troy

[bakerhillpins]

Just put it back together and drive it! Buy all the parts when you find good deals then tear it all down and replace things at one time. (Actually, I'd do the EFI and transmission completely separately as the EFI is likely less invasive.) It's too easy for a simple fix to turn into 5 years with the car apart and not being able to enjoy it.

Troy

Sounds like that is coming from experience..   

[Dino]

You guys are right. I need to chill about this. I probably will do the EFI though as it should be an easy install, especially with the car on stands. And I don't have a carb. Aww hell, I don't know yet...

[Troy]

Just put it back together and drive it! Buy all the parts when you find good deals then tear it all down and replace things at one time. (Actually, I'd do the EFI and transmission completely separately as the EFI is likely less invasive.) It's too easy for a simple fix to turn into 5 years with the car apart and not being able to enjoy it.

Troy

Sounds like that is coming from experience..   

Um, yeah. I should have a PhD in extended projects and undrivable cars....

Troy

[Troy]

You guys are right. I need to chill about this. I probably will do the EFI though as it should be an easy install, especially with the car on stands. And I don't have a carb. Aww hell, I don't know yet...

What happened to the plastic carb? I may have some floating around but I also have a GoEFI sitting on my shelf for the last year.

Troy

[71 SE3834V]

I'm with Troy. Put that beast back together and drive it! The suspension, brakes and engine compartment has to go back together anyway.

[Dino]

I do miss driving that thing...

I could finish it as is, enjoy it for a while and then do one or both upgrades. Still doing those to be sure. I'll have to take it as it comes but yeah I'd hate to see it sit for years.

I do still have the thermoquad but it needs a rebuild bad. The fuel pump puts out too much pressure for it apparently. Maybe I can score a cheap used carb to use for a while. In the meantime I can get everything prepped for EFI.

The new cam needs to be broken in so it may be wise to bolt on a carb to do that instead of messing with a new fuel system.

But this leaves the question, buy a transmission soon or wait? I have the room to store it but if the price wouldn't change much then I'll just wait.

[Troy]

Add a fuel regulator? I have piles of parts that I bought many, many years before I needed them. Then my garage roof leaked and rusted or ruined a bunch of them. Some of the stuff I can no longer find the documentation for. It's great!

As I recall, you liked driving the car. What's the motivation for changing this stuff? The gears you currently have should allow decent highway performance - but at the expense of stoplight to stoplight performance. The EFI makes more sense as you drive it in all conditions. I'm not sure rebuilding or swapping used carbs is worth the effort if you end up with something like a GoEFI or one of the new Holley systems any way. Breaking in the cam without having to fight fuel glitches would be a smart move.

Troy

[Dino]

Leaky roofs suck!

I have a regulator, but it's a cheap Mr. Gasket regulator and I'm not even sure it works properly. I could get something decent though.

I liked my 2.96 gears until I went from a 26" to a 28" tire, so I swapped them with 3.23 gears. They are great for overall driving but yeah it's not as quick off the line as it should be. I'd like a better compromise but I do like being able to cruise around here and be at decent rpm.

Besides having the ability to run 3.55's or so, I'd also have lots of gears to do those long trips that are not so much fun with these gears. I really like the idea of running low rpm doing 85.   

But the main reason for wanting to go through al the trouble and expense is much more simple: I love driving a stick and I miss it. Whenever I take out the T/A I light up, it makes for such an improved experience. My daily is an auto as well and that's fine, but I'd much rather have my toy car have a richer driving experience.

I should be able to keep it below $2K installing Fitech and get a tank, pump, and sending unit from Tanks Inc. The install isn't that bad either. I'm just a little worried for that very first startup too break in the cam. Ideally I slap on a new carb to do all that but it may be a waste of money. I'll figure it out.

[Troy]

I have a Passon OD 4-speed. Way cheaper than what you want to do! For the bronze car I still had to buy all the other 4-speed conversion parts but I was able to get most of it used (including a barely used flywheel and 23 spline clutch) so the cost wasn't terrible. Factory fit with no cutting other than the hole in the floor. Having said that, I can cruise in the low-mid 70s in my other cars without OD. The Challenger likes 72-73 mph before the secondaries open but it has hit stretches above 100. In an effort to keep my license, I usually try to stay within 10 mph of the speed limit (which is 65-70 mph where I live). That car has been to Carlisle and Monster Mopar twice each and once to the Mopar Nationals (and Jim drove it on the Power Tour before I bought it). The Charger R/T and Barracuda both went to Monster Mopar with factory autos. I spend a large portion of time on the highway and very little time doing burnouts or hard launches.

I got the Fitech on sale, one of Redmist's pump assemblies, and a Tanks Inc tank. I have had an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap sitting around for several years that I picked up used. My total so far for the EFI is about $1,600. Still need the sending unit and fuel lines/hoses.

Troy

[Dino]

Nothing wrong with a 4 speed, and being almost bolt in is great, but I like having the extra gears. Even the 6th. The more I think about it, the more I want a T-56. When I drive the T/A I don't even use 6th unless I'll be in the freeway for a while and traffic's moving good (or is absent), but damn it's nice to have it!

That price sounds about right. My fuel lines are fairly new and alas the tank is brand new, but I need to replace my return line with a bigger one as well. I wonder if I can run two identical 3/8" lines side to side...

[Troy]

You only have 1 car to put together too! I have to make compromises if I ever want to actually get all these things done! I could easily sell 5 of them and go hog wild with the bronze 68 but there are days when I like stock, days when I like going around corners, days when I hop on the highway and drive for hours, and days when I just want to mash the pedal at every light. Plus I can't ever pick a color so I need one of each...

Troy

[Dino]

LOL

I'd say you suffer from some mental disorder...but admittedly it's too nice to have fixed.   

[WHITE AND RED 69]

My fuel lines are fairly new and alas the tank is brand new, but I need to replace my return line with a bigger one as well. I wonder if I can run two identical 3/8" lines side to side...

That's how I ran mine. Just adapted AN fittings to the steel lines to connect to the tank and throttle body.

[Dino]

Great! That solves that issue. What type of clips did you use there to secure the lines? I'm assuming you can't adapt the stock clips to accept another 3'8 line.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Just simple line clips from Allstar performance.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all18312

I did use some of the stock clips that ran under the rocker and but some didn't hold the 2 lines properly. I'm sure they could be modified but I used a couple zip tie in the spots where the clip wouldn't fit around the return line.

[Dino]

Excellent! Thanks Clayton! 

My wife's on board with putting the car back together with the 727 seeing it's already installed and we'd like to enjoy the car again. That alone will still take us over a year. But we may install EFI very soon thereafter anyway. I should have kept one of the Edelbrock carbs but hindsight is always 20/20.

We're also considering buying the Viper T-56 for sale locally as we believe the price will only go up over time and shipping is always expensive for a 100+ pound box. In any case, I have a huge exam tomorrow so I need to shift my focus for a while!

[Dino]

Passed one of the hardest exams I have ever taken so back on track with the car stuff!   

[Kern Dog]

.

[Dino]

Uhm no   

Test as in studied material exam, you know, for school.

[Kern Dog]

Ok.   

[74bluefish]

I have a T56 in my Cuda with 3.55 gears and 26" tire  Nitto  285/40/ 17    I think that's the tire size, but it is 26" 
Voodoo roller cam 2200-2600rpm   for a 440.

My engine is stroked to 505 so that lowers the power band for the cam.
EFI is a Megasquirt3, sequential, coil near plug.

I took a trip to Don Garlits car show in Nov from Ft Lauderdale   600 mile round trip
At 70 mph, 1700 rpm, and 17 mpg 
At 80 mph, 1800 rpm, and 16 mpg
I can cruise as low as 55 mph in 6th with no bucking,  but you cant feed it a lot of gas at that speed.  Must be very gentle on the pedal.     Usually from 50 to 60 mph I'm in 5th
The T56 is from a Viper with .5     6th gear.
I also have a new Mcloud twin clutch for the T56  if you need it.  It fits a 440 but not fit if you buy a stroker crank.  I found out the hard way.

Dan

[Dino]

Dan I love those numbers! And feel free to show off that Cuda!   

Thanks for the offer, I will follow up on that when I have some more info on how we're going to play this. I posted a question on a Viper trans in the engine section I need answered first so hopefully someone will chime in there.