These old cars on winter roads

[cooldude]

For you guys who are old enough to remember when our classic cars were just used cars in every day use, what did you think about driving them on icy and snowy roads?

I remember my 273 Barracuda went about as good as any other two wheel drive car. No real surprises there.

But my 383 Roadrunner was pretty much helpless. It would spin at the drop of a hat, and it was just too dangerous.

The Roadrunner had a better heater and defroster, it seems. But the old Barracuda was a pretty much reliable, if slightly eccentric car to drive on ice and snow. As one of my Mopar buddies used to say..."Tires is everything"!

But both of them gave me a good excuse to buy a new everyday car, which was a Plymouth Volare slant six, which I got stuck in snow on my wedding night in December 1989, and my new bride and I had to walk a few blocks to our apartment.

[ITSA426]

They are still bad.  I drove one of my Chargers into storage a little late a couple years ago, on a snowy, ice covered road.  Stick shift car, even with sure grip wasn't a pleasant ride.  It also has all the original air leaks and wind noises.  The heater was adequate but no rear window defrost on that big glass.  Now I make sure I'm in storage before snowfall.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I drove my 70 Charger 383 4-speed in the winter back in 1976-77 & it sucked even with studded snows. But back then, we didn't know any different as every car was rear wheel drive. And most were one wheeler squealers.

[Troy]

I daily drove a 68 Charger with no heat all the way through high school. It mostly sucked but I did it and never crashed. Now I always have a 4x4 floating around in the fleet and we don't even get that much snow (ice mostly).

Troy

[Mike DC]

 
I usually refer to a Charger in the snow being "fun" more than "dangerous", but that's an opinion.  I love sliding cars around.

The window defrosting sure sucked.  I had nothing in the back and the front one was never that great.    



There is one odd surprise with snow/ice - the stock drum brakes are more than enough.  The tires can't grip hard enough to work the brakes very hard at all.

The car is still an elephant on roller skates in the big picture, though.  You really learned how heavy the car was when the traction was low.

[DougMN]

The worst was bias ply tires, anything with posi was a real improvement. I remember snow tires with studs, and cars spinning the tires shooting out sparks in the snow.

[Bob]

In the 70s I used sand bags in the trunk and snow chains. The chains made a mess at 50 mph. I was teen-ager and did not know better. But as mentioned everything was rear wheel drive so we all got stuck together.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Back in the day when I used these cars for commuting I'd install snow tires on the rear, put two bags of salt in the trunk (one on each side) and just went easy on the accelerator pedal and I did okay.

[Dino]

I drive my 69 rain or shine and treat it as an actual car, but I will never take it out on ice or snow. I drove my 68 one winter a very long time ago, and it was pretty dicey. The worst part was the others around me that would start to slide. I just didn't want any of them crashing into me. Getting rolling from a stop on an icy road with an automatic can take a while as well. 

[lloyd3]

Drove a '70 Super Bee 4-gear car all through the winter of '84-'85 in Bradford, Pennsylvania (north-central part of that state where lake-effect snows are legendary). Drove lots of other Chryslers (both big and small blocks) through plenty of Pennsylvania winters before that.   I was just back in that country over this last Christmas week and it snowed hard for most of it. I was driving a Nissan 4x4 rental that I was very happy to have this time.  These cars weren't terrible in snow compared to some of the other options from that era (2-wheel drive pick-ups come to mind, Camaros, Mustangs, etc.) but they weren't as good as...say station wagons or some of the big (& heavy) luxury boats of the era.  Good tires were, of course, critical.  Because of my perpetually impoverished student situation, that Bee was sporting L-60-15s until almost February of that year (a somewhat dicey proposition, even on light snow days).

[BrianShaughnessy]

Drove Sinnamon year round and down to night school all year round back in 80/81.    I put snow tires on the back.   I'm not sure how I survived.    It sucked but we didn't know much better back then. 

[Ryan.C]

Our family car growing up was a 65 Chrysler, it was fine on the winter roads in northern Ohio. My father had a 73 Imperial 2-door as his daily and that car was even better in the snow. I imagine the curb weight of these vehicles really helped.

[RCCDrew]

Snow? 
Not in S Texas.

[birdsandbees]

Lived in the Ottawa Valley (snow belt of Ontario) and my father never bought a snow tire in his entire life. I don't remember the first car other than pictures, but I do remember our '64 Belvedere and it went everywhere we needed it to, even when my brother started driving it when I was 9 (1971). Next up was the '69 Bee and he'd ditched that before it saw first winter and while it was parked he bought a 318 powered '69 Fury II. We went everywhere in that boat and you just learned to drive. Where to pick up speed so you could make the hills and where not to. Same deal with our '76 Fury Sport. We NEVER missed a T bar tow start up ever, in our 3 day per week skiing schedule and on a good day the closest hill was 2 hours away! Didn't matter if it was Dad, my brother, my sister or myself. We got there and never dinged a car. My Mother was another story...  

That said, this is the closest our 'Bee will ever get to driving in the snow again !!  

[lloyd3]

A few years ago now (like 15, back when I was childless and chasing a hemi-car), I had taken some shots of my car in a snow-covered setting (very cold, but dry roads) for a fellow somewhere in the Midwest.  I found the shots to be very nostalgic, because I have lots of memories of these cars being used on snowy days. Loved the plumes of exhaust curling up around the back and the contrast of the fresh white snow and all the chrome and clean paint.  The fellow was unmoved by my photographic skills and tried to severely low-ball me....which was the end of any conversations with him.  If the opportunity presents itself again here, I'll try it again in the now-digital era.

[66FBCharger]

I drove my '70 road runner 440 6V during the winter of 1985. I had no choice. I had a '73 Rallye Challenger that puked the transmission during the winter. I had to pull the road runner out of storage. I put Goodyear Polyglas (I think they are H60x15 small letter) snow tires mounted on Rallye wheels on the car. The car was not terrible. It was not really worse than what most people were driving at the time. I remember the biggest thing was starting off in the snow. I had to be real careful to get started because of the 4 speed and 4.10 Dana rear. The tires would spin really easily. I decided to start out in 2nd gear and it made it a little easier to get going.
I was 21 and didn't know much so it was not a huge deal at the time.

[alfaitalia]

Real cars "steer from the rear"!


Or ...as my granddad used to say....rear wheels for driving, front wheels for steering.....anything else is for shopping!!!.....he was never a fan of front wheel drive!!!

[XH29N0G]

Wow I missed this one.  I had to learn how to drive it, easy to end up off the road, but the sure grip helped.  It never got stuck after sliding off the road or driveway. 

I thought it was the best. 

Of course the other car was a 69 Pontiac with an open differential.

[cooldude]

Nothing better than the old differential game!

When we got stuck and had to shovel gravels under the wheel, it was the wheel that didnt need power that was spinning.

The wheel that had a chance of getting traction is the one we spent the time out in the rain, or cold and snow, shovelling frozen slush and gravels under the wheel we thought would pull us out.

And when we were done shovelling to give one wheel a good base of traction, one of us would get behind the wheel while the other pushed.

Wouldnt you know it...The one with the good solid base of newly shovelled gravels, just sort of sat there and did nothing. The other one just spun uselessly.  

Frozen fingers worked raw, sopping wet hair with snow and ice in it, red cheeks and out of breath...only to see this!

I always thought it was a conspiracy of some kind, or some sadistic designers idea of a joke!  

[flyinlow]

I drove a 68 RT in the snow to work at a Chrysler Plymouth dealership back in the '70's. Take off the G60 Kelly Super Chargers and put on the studded snow tires. Sand and salt bags in the trunk, shovel ,carpet strips. Not too bad. Less traffic and less aggressive drivers. Someone was stuck ,you jumped out and pushed, next time someone helped you. Hey you where 20 , it was no big deal. Wish I could go back and do it again....the 20 year old part at least.

[alfaitalia]

Nothing better than the old differential game!

When we got stuck and had to shovel gravels under the wheel, it was the wheel that didnt need power that was spinning.

The wheel that had a chance of getting traction is the one we spent the time out in the rain, or cold and snow, shovelling frozen slush and gravels under the wheel we thought would pull us out.

And when we were done shovelling to give one wheel a good base of traction, one of us would get behind the wheel while the other pushed.

Wouldnt you know it...The one with the good solid base of newly shovelled gravels, just sort of sat there and did nothing. The other one just spun uselessly.  



Frozen fingers worked raw, sopping wet hair with snow and ice in it, red cheeks and out of breath...only to see this!

I always thought it was a conspiracy of some kind, or some sadistic designers idea of a joke!  

Use the off roader trick of very gently applying the brake at the same time as the throttle ....this will usually put enough load on the spinning wheel to transmit some drive to the other side....I do it all the time on my open diff Jeep.

[cooldude]

I remember sitting in and driving the old cars on rainy days, and the windshields got all fogged up, the wipers were a going, and the defroster on (if it worked).

Sometimes it was hard to tell where the natural, weather related fog on the windshield stopped, and the glass fogging due to age began.

Who can remember when the windshields were relatively new, and didnt have that "fogged around the edges" look?

How old did these old cars have to get before the windshields started the "fogging around the edges" thing?

[Ryan.C]

My '69 Charger and my '66 Chrysler 300 both appear to have the original glass and have no fog. But I have seen that on many older mopars  Not sure if it is a Chrysler thing or did all older cars fall victim to this problem?

[lloyd3]

Well...damp climates and 60s era Mopars (and later) inevitably lead to rust. Once you lost "watertight" (& some never seemed to have it) then things started to get a little soggy inside. Combine that with the water vapor in human breath, cigarette (or other) smoke and less-then-perfect glass cleanliness and you had foggy.... baby!  Crappy wipers and deteriorating defroster hoses don't help visibility much either.  One good thing about the big blocks in wintertime was all the waste heat they generated. Even an anemic blower had lots of hot to distribute and the floors were warm (if you had dual exhaust).  

[Ryan.C]

Well...damp climates and 60s era Mopars (and later) inevitably lead to rust. Once you lost "watertight" (& some never seemed to have it) then things started to get a little soggy inside. Combine that with the water vapor in human breath, cigarette (or other) smoke and less-then-perfect glass cleanliness and you had foggy.... baby!  Crappy wipers and deteriorating defroster hoses don't help visibility much either.  One good thing about the big blocks in wintertime was all the waste heat they generated. Even an anemic blower had lots of hot to distribute and the floors were warm (if you had dual exhaust).  

That makes sense, the Charger is a California car and the 300 is from Texarkana.

[lloyd3]

My very first car, a '70 Roadrunner,  almost always had a foggy back window in winter, as well as the backseat side windows. My next to last musclecar, a '70 Superbee, had the exact same issues . Both had that same big and slightly curved back window (a very distinctive Mopar shape BTW).  In order to keep visibility good while driving in very cold or soggy weather (or both), I would run the defrost on full hot and mostly full fan and then crack the driver's side window and wing vent a bit. Sometimes that wasn't enough to keep ahead of the heat, so I'd have to pull open the floor vents a bit too. Small price to pay for comfort in those cars, both were alot of fun.  FWIW: the Roadrunner was a one-owner Pennsylvania car with plenty of corrosion issues, the 'Bee was a one-owner Wyoming car with almost zero rust.  Another very distinctive memory of both these cars in winter was that when the call of nature arose, standing near the back of the car to relieve oneself was a noticeably warmer place to perform that act.  The stereo effect of those duel-exhausted 383 Magnums at idle and the warm plumes of almost sweet-smelling, leaded gasoline exhaust swirling around me is vivid for me still. I remember many times where I would look up into the cold dark night full of stars and feel immensely blessed (there might have been a little beer-drinking involved here as well).

[Charger_Fan]

Back when my Charger was a daily driver, periodically the snow, ice & crap would freeze the headlight doors in place, so to keep from damaging the door motor, I would unplug it & leave them open. I never did put snow tires on it, but we also tried not to drive it when the roads were really terrible...that's what this Pinto was for. Actually, if you had snow tires with gnarly tread on a Pinto, they made good winter beaters.


In '89, I got this '72 Satellite for a winter beater, because my growing family had outgrown the Pinto, plus my wife hated it. I DID put snow tires on the Satellite, and it handled the white crap very well. My wife felt embarrassed driving this car because it was wearing primer. Women.   I thought it was great, plus I didn't have to mess with headlight doors, the heater really cooked, AND it did awesome donuts in snowy parking lots! This pic is the first year the Charger was relieved of any winter driving duties. Notice the tarp over the rear window, so the trunk floor would stay dry. Ahhh, the life of owning a Charger.

[cooldude]

Frozen headlight doors...I hadnt thought of that one.  

I wonder how many people back in the day, have been driving these cars back when they were new, in a heavy snow storm or freezing rain, or just plain really cold temperatures came up, and they couldnt get the headlight doors to open?

Imagine being on the road in the winter time, driving all day over slushy roads on a long haul,and when the sun starts to go down, you take a supper break, and pull into some greasy spoon to a meal.

When you get finished eating and get to your car to resume the drive...no headlights!  

Its now dark, youre a long way from home, its winter and snowing, and the headlight doors are frozen in the closed position. What do you do?

(Press panic button at this time, please!)  

I can see where people with poor automotive skills would shy away from buying these cars with hidden headlights, or sell them at first opportunity, after having this happen to them.

Must have been a real bad reputation getter back in the day.

[ws23rt]

I drove my 68 Hemi RR through several winters in the late seventies. I didn't know any better. It was my transport.
One 180mile trip to work was in snow that blew across the road to the point that the hump in the blowing snow was the center divider. I drove next to that hump to know I was in the left lane.
I also had to block the radiator with cardboard to get enough heat inside the car.   That hemi did me well for many years just as reliable as the slant six many bragg about.
That same trek was done in my old 70 charger RT with chains needed for the whole trip.  
In those days getting to work was -the deal- and the cars we drove were the way to get to work.

[Highbanked Hauler]

Drove Sinnamon year round and down to night school all year round back in 80/81.    I put snow tires on the back.   I'm not sure how I survived.    It sucked but we didn't know much better back then. 

    Snow tire were necessary but there were less cars on the road back then and most people used there heads more, less superheros. My 500 was great, it was the first car I had with a sure grip rear. I have started a points ignition below 0 many times. It was life and what everybody did.

[Todd Wilson]

I had to drive my 71 Charger a few winters years ago and it seemed to do fine thru the snow.   I remember as a kid dad and grandpa putting snow tires on for the winter on various cars. Spring time and you swapped the snow tires for the street tires.


Todd

[Kern Dog]

Frozen headlight doors...I hadnt thought of that one.  

Pull into some greasy spoon to a meal.

When you get finished eating and get to your car to resume the drive...no headlights!  

What do you do?

(Press panic button at this time, please!)  

I can see where people with poor automotive skills would shy away from buying these cars with hidden headlights, or sell them at first opportunity, after having this happen to them.

Must have been a real bad reputation getter back in the day.

Not a problem with a 70 model. There was a knob on the electric motor to manually open the doors. Give the doors a few taps to break the ice seal and crank the knob.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

The key was to lift the headlamp doors slightly to make sure they weren't frozen before you hit the headlamp switch. Otherwise the plastic gears in the motor assembly would sometimes strip.

[RallyeMike]

I like the comment about we just didn't know anything better. True.

My daily at one point was 440-4 speed Roadrunner with 3.91 sure grip and studded truck tires. I'd drive it across the mountain pass on compact snow and ice at 70mph and thought it was great fun.

[lloyd3]

From reading this, its starting to sound like Roadrunners were the gateway drug to owning a Charger.

[dual fours]

14" Firestone Town and Country M&S's with studs, and a trunk full of stuff.
I do remember flicking the headlight doors with a hand.

[cooldude]

From reading this, its starting to sound like Roadrunners were the gateway drug to owning a Charger.

Yep, thats how it was for me.

But, I started with an A-body Barracuda, then went to the RRs.   

[Charger_Fan]

The key was to lift the headlamp doors slightly to make sure they weren't frozen before you hit the headlamp switch. Otherwise the plastic gears in the motor assembly would sometimes strip.

I just unplugged the motor & left the doors open for much of the winter. My wife drove it quite a bit back then & I didn't trust her to remember about the headlight doors.

Another "fun" thing about driving anything with a carburetor back then, was that if you had headers, or for some reason your heat riser to the air cleaner wasn't there, on humid snowy & rainy days...if you didn't let the engine warm up enough, the carb would ice up as you drove & stall the engine!  So then you would have to pull over, shut the engine off & wait for the engine heat to melt the ice...usually about 10 minutes.

Oddly enough, the wife didn't like having to pull over & wait when she drove it. Sooo on my Charger, this was the fix. (Please ignore the filthy engine)

[ACUDANUT]

In high school, I had to have my 2 extra ride buddies hop on the trunk lid side that got traction.  A sure grip was a dream back then.

[ACUDANUT]

The key was to lift the headlamp doors slightly to make sure they weren't frozen before you hit the headlamp switch. Otherwise the plastic gears in the motor assembly would sometimes strip.

I just unplugged the motor & left the doors open for much of the winter. My wife drove it quite a bit back then & I didn't trust her to remember about the headlight doors.

Another "fun" thing about driving anything with a carburetor back then, was that if you had headers, or for some reason your heat riser to the air cleaner wasn't there, on humid snowy & rainy days...if you didn't let the engine warm up enough, the carb would ice up as you drove & stall the engine!  So then you would have to pull over, shut the engine off & wait for the engine heat to melt the ice...usually about 10 minutes.

Oddly enough, the wife didn't like having to pull over & wait when she drove it. Sooo on my Charger, this was the fix. (Please ignore the filthy engine)

Never heard of this.  Never happened to me anyway. Carb icing up ?

[green69rt]

I bought my first 69 RT in Idaho and drove it through the winter there.  Never thought much about sliding around, just lived with it.  I used studded snow tires in the winter.  I don't know if you can even get such a thing now    After Idaho I drove it in New Hampshire for a year and Missouri over another 4 years.  Snow tires in the winter and, eventually radials in the good weather.  I remember everyone telling me that FWD cars (starting to become available) were so much better in the snow but I didn't give up my Charger. 

I guess it's just what you get used to.   Everyone had the same problem and we all learned how to drive on snow and ice.   Of course, there were a LOT fewer cars on the road back then so we had more room to maneuver and stay out of trouble.  I would be very wary of driving the same car today, on today"s roads.   More crowded, and there just seems to be a lot more risky drivers.  Used to be it was only crazy hot rod kids (me!) but now a lot more people drive a little crazy only now it's called "aggressive driving".

[ACUDANUT]

Sure seem to be more aggressive women drivers these days too.

[lloyd3]

Aggressive or in-attentive?

[Charger_Fan]

Never heard of this.  Never happened to me anyway. Carb icing up ?

Huh, maybe it was just me then. Did you have headers on your cars back then, or open air cleaners?
I had the same problem on the Charger & my truck, both had headers & neither had the heat tube going to the air cleaner, initially. It only happened on humid, cold days, where ice would form in the carb venturi's & build up to the point where it wouldn't run any longer. After a 10 minute wait, the engine heat would melt the ice & I was good to go.

With the Charger, once I put the super high-tech heat riser on,   it almost eliminated the problem. I didn't have the problem with my other stock vehicles that had exhaust manifolds and factory air cleaners, with the heat riser tube attached.

[DAY CLONA]

For you guys who are old enough to remember when our classic cars were just used cars in every day use, what did you think about driving them on icy and snowy roads?

Back in the day (70's) I drove my Challenger T/A 340/6 4 spd year round, it was my DD/365/24/7 (I still have the car, going on almost 40 yrs now)... after College, when I finally had some money to burn I started to buy C bodies for winter beaters on a yearly basis so the acquired toys could sit the winter out, then summer time they gave up their 440's for any new toy acquired, or a replacement for a motor grenaded in street racing, I drove my 70 Charger as a DD (nice weather) right up to the mid 90's, as well as my 71 Cuda, before succumbing to a "newer" DD...I actually miss driving the old iron on a daily basis, snow or ice was no issue, but the idiots on the road in the last decade or 2, dictate having a DD that's sacrificial

Mike

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Never heard of this.  Never happened to me anyway. Carb icing up ?

Huh, maybe it was just me then. Did you have headers on your cars back then, or open air cleaners?
I had the same problem on the Charger & my truck, both had headers & neither had the heat tube going to the air cleaner, initially. It only happened on humid, cold days, where ice would form in the carb venturi's & build up to the point where it wouldn't run any longer. After a 10 minute wait, the engine heat would melt the ice & I was good to go.

With the Charger, once I put the super high-tech heat riser on,   it almost eliminated the problem. I didn't have the problem with my other stock vehicles that had exhaust manifolds and factory air cleaners, with the heat riser tube attached.

I've heard of carburetor icing but never experienced it.
I have to ask; I see a ratcheting tie down connected to the shock stud, what is the other end connected to?

[flyinlow]

Experienced it on piston engine powered aircraft with a carb. They have a carb heat system the pilot can apply so you don't have to go 10 minutes without power waiting for the ice to melt. Seamed to happen most on a 40-50* F , humid days.

I think it happened once on  TQ equipped car that had the heated air system removed for headers. By the time I pulled over and got the air cleaner off I did not see any ice. After I restarted It ran fine. Might have been bad gas too.

[XH29N0G]

The key was to lift the headlamp doors slightly to make sure they weren't frozen before you hit the headlamp switch. Otherwise the plastic gears in the motor assembly would sometimes strip.

I just unplugged the motor & left the doors open for much of the winter. My wife drove it quite a bit back then & I didn't trust her to remember about the headlight doors.

Another "fun" thing about driving anything with a carburetor back then, was that if you had headers, or for some reason your heat riser to the air cleaner wasn't there, on humid snowy & rainy days...if you didn't let the engine warm up enough, the carb would ice up as you drove & stall the engine!  So then you would have to pull over, shut the engine off & wait for the engine heat to melt the ice...usually about 10 minutes.

Oddly enough, the wife didn't like having to pull over & wait when she drove it. Sooo on my Charger, this was the fix. (Please ignore the filthy engine)

Ingenious, Is that a torque strap too?

[Charger_Fan]

I have to ask; I see a ratcheting tie down connected to the shock stud, what is the other end connected to?

Ingenious, Is that a torque strap too?

Sorry guys, I didn't see your posts until today.

The other end of that strap went to the P/S pump bracket.
The car was involved in a front end accident years ago, and it hit hard enough to shear both motor mounts & the trans mount. The engine & trans broke free & hit the radiator. So my temporary (more like 5 years) fix was to jack up the engine, push it back onto it's mounts & strap it down, so I could move the car under it's own power.