second and third gen price check

[triple_green]

I am always interest in the movement of prices of these cars. There seems to be a lot of people offering cars for sale at what look like unrealistic prices. Good condition second gens for $35-40K; parts cars for $10K, etc. I have even been amazed at the number of pedestrian third gens that they are asking $20-30K for.

Are they really getting anywhere near these prices? I always look at the Ebay completed auctions to see what they really sell for verus asking price. The prices look like they have risen a little over the last couple of years, but no where near what some are asking.

The super rare R/Ts, hemis and 6-pack cars still appear to be getting "big bucks".

[elks]

I think prices are crazy.P
roblem is people are willing to pay high prices so there you go.

[odcics2]

The economy is hot and there are a lot of folks with big bucks spending their wad.
The sellers are hoping to cash out at the peak.
Look for things to slow next year... 

(GM and FCA already announced some plant layoffs coming up. New car sales are one barometer for the economy)   

[Mike DC]

      

A seller saying "I'd like to get $80,000 for this 318/auto" is the equivalent of a buyer saying "I'd give you $3000 cash right now for that nice 440 RT survivor."  Same principle, coming from other side of the table.  It proves absolutely nothing about the value of the car.  Not even a hint.

The only number that means anything is when a sale actually happens.    

[lloyd3]

A rising tide floats all the boats. If this present post-election consumer optimism continues and the market finally closes over 20K, then the value of all our cars might very well be helped, even significantly. These items are toys in the truest sense of the word (IE. non-essential), which means that value is directly attributed to a psychological component of a consumer's sense of security.  If things are "good" and the future looks "bright" then spending on "toys" becomes more commonplace.  When you balance rarity and desirability against an aging population of any potential consumers, however, the market for these things gets thinner all the time. Don't be counting on the Millennials to bolster the market for these cars. Most consider them to be a blend of "evil" and "dangerous".  What did Clint Eastwood just call them? The "pussy" generation?

[Nacho-RT74]

the lack of good 2nd gens have being raising prices for 1st and 3rd gens, but there are also dreamers about that too

71s are about the same 2nd gen price line just because they are still on the real HiPo numbers and options, then 72s just if Rallyes but not really because the performance from the engine bay, but the look. 73/74s are the less. 3rd gens sellers are the worst of all, specially 73/74s trying to get them on same 71 price package, which is not the reallity. A nice 73/74 rallye, Big Block, can get maybe half of the price than a real and nice 71 R/T but that's all. Still with nice mods and the standard options they began to get at no cost ( elect ignition, front disc, radiator overflow bottle, sway bars ) what can beat any 71 on the street, but the date of birth makes a big diff yet over those.

the best of 73/74s is the front suspension upgrades ( even lot of ppl hates the isolation stuff easy to save with solid mounts, they are still way better than earliers ), but the worst is the LoPo from their engines and emission controls, easy to save thought with afew vitamines on a cheap rate ( just changing pistons they get the output from the glory days ). However being born on the decadency of performance, never will reach same price rates. Then you can like or not the body lines changes ( myself 73/74 looks way better than 71/72, but that's personal ), aside the performance look options, from 71 and even 72s.

1st gens are so special on every point of view! but they are hard to rate though. I think on their days they still found a hard time to put them on some specific line. Still today they are hard to rate them. So hated and loved at the same time! Myself I like more the 67s because would like to get one with factory vinyl top ( I love vinyl tops ). The long console makes nice the 66, but being realistic the shorter one in 67 is more comfortably and practical to the passengers.

[odcics2]

The kids today could care less about our old fuddy duddy cars.

Yes, there is an exception here and there for the few into "retro" cars!  lol....

Prices will go down because of simple supply and demand.  When we all croak off the supply
will be overwhelming to the few buyers that want our old cars!!   There will be bargains galore!
Too bad we won't be around to take advantage of them!   

 

[nakita7]

You hit the nail on the head...look on Ebay at the SOLD auctions. Tells a whole different story. These cars don't actually sell for anywhere near what people commonly ask for them. Ebay is just a game that people play when they sell high end cars. We've all seen the 'ghost' bidding, the "selling for a friend who isn't computer literate" crap, the oh-so tantalizing "I have too many projects on the go" and the ever popular "relisting for a non-paying bidder". I really don't understand how Ebay became the 'authority' on what these cars are "really worth"

Like everything else in life...AN ITEM IS ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONE ELSE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. Period. Easy way to prove this, do what I've done. The next time you come across someone selling a Charger and they give you the famous line..."I Really don't know what it's worth", you have two options:

Option A - Give them an EDUCATED low-ball offer. What I mean is similar to how I make offers on houses (I'm a Real Estate Investor). Bill is selling an outdated, rough, crappy house. The neighbour just sold their house for $300K. The Real Estate agent told Bill he can get close to 'Market Value', which Bill will automatically think is $300K, so he will want $280K, but I look at the house and I know it needs $120 in renos. I offer him $150K. He starts jumping up and down, saying I can fix it myself for $20-25K (somehow he knows this??) and all of a sudden it's worth as much as the neighbours house. What Bill doesn't know is that the neighbour has updated his own house already and was then able to get (actual) Market Value for his house. Bill needs to wake up.

There are many (honest) car people/body shop owners/serious collectors out there that know exactly what I'm talking about. Joe gets insulted when you offer him $7500 for his rusted out 69 RT because, in his head, it's worth $25K, you can 'fix it' yourself for $18K and poof, it's worth $75K, because that's Market Value. In actual down-to-earth reality, that $7500 car will cost $80K to restore (not including time my time, of course) and the MAY sell for $48K. People are always pushing prices and it really doesn't work that way. You have be smart about it, however people who are bad with money literally keep Capitalism moving. They just do.

Option B - Tell them to list the car on Ebay with no reserve. That is the true indicator of what someone is willing to pay in real life, but you will see a different side of that person who will (all of a sudden!) become a total expert on what that Charger is 'really worth'.

Don't get caught in the hype, seriously. It's easy to do. Use your head and pay what it's worth...not a dime more!

[Mike DC]

 

the lack of good 2nd gens have being raising prices for 1st and 3rd gens, but there are also dreamers about that too

IMO there is no lack of good 2nd-gens. 

There is a lack of cheap ones but that's a different issue. 

[Challenger340]

Option B - Tell them to list the car on Ebay with no reserve. That is the true indicator of what someone is willing to pay in real life, but you will see a different side of that person who will (all of a sudden!) become a total expert on what that Charger is 'really worth'.
As a true indicator of what it's worth, what Seller in his/her right mind would list a nice 2nd Gen with no reserve ?  Listing on Ebay with no reserve would be like canvassing a very tiny one time snap shot of potential Buyer's in determination to "what" it's worth ? and leaving Money / LOSING in the process.
As long as there are Have's..... and Have-NOT's, especially around 2nd Gens and their desireability, there will continue to be emotions involved in purchasing by the latter wishing to become the former.

Don't get caught in the hype, seriously. It's easy to do. Use your head and pay what it's worth...not a dime more!
While I respect your commitment to non-emotional maintenance of discipline to your perceived value in your acquisitions, just say'in.... your assessment of what it's worth most often may indeed not coincide with what others are willing to pay ? leaving you car-less ?

[cdr]

Don't get caught in the hype, seriously. It's easy to do. Use your head and pay what it's worth...not a dime more!
While I respect your commitment to non-emotional maintenance of discipline to your perceived value in your acquisitions, just say'in.... your assessment of what it's worth most often may indeed not coincide with what others are willing to pay ? leaving you car-less ?

Yea, like when I bought my car, I thought it was only worth about 1k but I had to pay 7k to get it LOL. yes I had done research & learned that 1k would not get me a buildable 68 Charger

[Nacho-RT74]

 

the lack of good 2nd gens have being raising prices for 1st and 3rd gens, but there are also dreamers about that too

IMO there is no lack of good 2nd-gens. 

There is a lack of cheap ones but that's a different issue. 

yes, that's true too, but when you search for them on ebay at least day after day you can find less being sold

[plumsun3]

I've had a habit of getting in late on models that get hot. Before purchasing my'71 R/T, I considered buying a project but figured I'd have more money into parts than buying the one I did. About a month after bringing it home I had offers a few thousand more than I paid. I love the car, even more than my #s Chally R/T vert. Since the original motor was already gone, I've gone a more mild restomod. I have it apart now adding a/c, serpentine belts plus a number of cosmetic pieces to interior. Since mileage is under 60k and now being retired,
it will continue to have a pampered life. I only see it's value going up in the future, as did my E body, the missed GM bubble tops, 77/78 T/As, early wagons and the like.

[Ryan.C]

Looking at the "SOLD" 2nd generation Chargers on ebay is very surprising. A lot of good solid chargers sold for just over 20K.

[nakita7]

Looking at the "SOLD" 2nd generation Chargers on ebay is very surprising. A lot of good solid chargers sold for just over 20K.

Exactly, it's shocking. The asking prices on Hagerty, Hemmings, Barratt-Jackson, Ebay, etc are not the real world. It's what they actual sell for that tells us what they are worth...and here's a hint, it's not the asking price (don't be that naive). If someone had a 69 Charger in a barn for the last 30 years, and was NOT a car guy/flipper/etc, and was to look on Ebay first thing, they would immediately have dollar signs in their eyes. It's the same for Trans Ams, other Mopars, SS cars, etc. I realize second gen owners hate to hear that but they sure wake up when they actually have to sell their cars...

I am speaking from 40 years of experience with Mopars, including many Chargers. I am NOT trying to be negative, just trying to be real. It's the same principle for houses, art, collectibles...the money in your hand is what the car is worth (unless YOU sold it too cheap, knowingly or unknowingly, that's a whole different lesson).

There are many Charger sellers, on here and elsewhere, who have truly made sic money flipping/selling/restoring a second gen Charger. There are probably just as many who have broke even and just as many who have lost money. They are the best looking Muscle Car ever produced and that alone keeps the price up there, ALWAYS will. A second gen will never go down. It's not a 1962 Ferrari GTO, right now, but in 50-100 years who knows??

Ponder on this... "You don't make money when you sell a car, you make money when you buy it." Tie that in with what a car is TRULY worth and it will rock your world. Once that gets cemented, you will see how silly these WIW discussions can be, although I do want to clarify that these discussions are needed for the new, or those who might be truly uninformed and don't want to get ripped off either. I love to help all people as I have seen many get burned. Just hoping these my two cents will be worth a few dollars to some...

[Challenger340]

The NADA and Hagerty Price guides are actual tracked and documented sales reports from auctions, title transfers, appraisals, etc., for insurance purposes.

The only really tricky parts in relevance to what a buyer can expect in the REAL WORLD marketplace?, IMO, tend to be in accuracy to those guides described "conditions" of the vehicles represented, IMO again, tending to be more representative of the finer examples?  than the "run of the mill" Cars to be found advertised and sold off their somewhat narrow informational grid ?

And as always for anyone actively looking.... Good Luck in the hunt  

Just be aware, that as long as Monetary policies tend to remain historically accomodative as they are now(Yellen would have to raise 2 full pts to even get in the ballpark to "normal"), the S&P still flirts 2200 ? with the DOW at 20K ?
EBITDA and PE's remain inflated/distorted ? .... IMO,
then the non monetary instruments such as the more desirable "musclecars" will remain under pressure as inflation hedges for monied people buying/starting Car Collections as part of a more diversified investment strategy.  

[Challenger340]

Looking at the "SOLD" 2nd generation Chargers on ebay is very surprising. A lot of good solid chargers sold for just over 20K.

Exactly, it's shocking. The asking prices on Hagerty, Hemmings, Barratt-Jackson, Ebay, etc are not the real world. It's what they actual sell for that tells us what they are worth...and here's a hint, it's not the asking price (don't be that naive). If someone had a 69 Charger in a barn for the last 30 years, and was NOT a car guy/flipper/etc, and was to look on Ebay first thing, they would immediately have dollar signs in their eyes. It's the same for Trans Ams, other Mopars, SS cars, etc. I realize second gen owners hate to hear that but they sure wake up when they actually have to sell their cars...

Agreed that it is only worth what someone is willing to actually PAY in the REAL WORLD.
That said,
I dunno if the likes of Barrett, Hemmings, Ebay, etc., are all THAT far off ?
and,
I am NOT about to excercise one of two standing Offers I have to prove the point ? let's just say as long as they keep checking back every few months ?  then I perceive it's just as good as the the "money in the bank" at ZERO interest, and a whole lot more fun to drive on a nice summer day !

[nakita7]

While it is absolutely true that Hagerty tracks 'sales' of these cars, the prices that these cars get at auctions, are still not real world prices. Let's think about this. There is a psychological hype (and some alcohol) that sometimes ( ) drives the prices up. That is common knowledge and is proven all the time when Joe Flipper can't get his over-inflated price in his hometown and says (you know where I'm going with this!), "Well fine, I'm going to take the car to XYZ Auctions in Vegas". Ever heard that one?   If Hagerty was tracking the sales of LITERALLY ALL Chargers, they would be tracking every Auto Trader/Craigslist/Kijiji/Car Lot/Back Alley deal, right?? Sadly, they don't, so how can they know the actual 'values'? Just sayin'...

I have nothing bad to say about Hagerty specifically, just trying to be objective. I recently insured a Y88 Trans Am with them. Great price, coverage, options, etc. So, where did they get the 'value' for my car? Well, I had to get it appraised. Where did the appraiser get the 'value'? From guides online. Where did they get the value? Please see previous paragraph.

From a business perspective, the 'values' of these cars have to be high, correct? Premiums are based off the number!! It's similar to Black Books for late model cars. Who comes up with these values? Well, the industry itself. This allows them to have all these 'magical' trade-in values for the next 5 years on the vehicle, but when you and I try to sell the car privately we can only get the Real World Price, correct? That's why many get frustrated and just trade them, right?? We get more money, weird huh? It's not like these prices come from an independent third party. Trust me, if they did, they would be a lot different.

I hope you see what I'm trying to say. Not everyone sees it from the business perspective, and that's fine. If there's one thing I love, it's seeing TRUE car enthusiasts enjoy their cars and do well (or at lease, not lose money) when they sell them. However on the flip side, I hate seeing unlearned people get ripped off on restorations or at actions and I have talked to MANY people who said they "overpaid for their car at the auction" and when they sell it, they say that awful line..."I know I won't get what I paid for it, but I'll consider your offer.". I realize this does keep Capitalism alive, but it's just not smart.

When the girlfriend or wife rolls her eyes guys, LISTEN! My wife does it to me when I start getting long winded talking about the Muscle Car "war stories", but not over the financial end of this game. They are more intuitive when it comes to this stuff for a reason.  

[nakita7]

[/quote]

I am NOT about to excercise one of two standing Offers I have to prove the point ? let's just say as long as they keep checking back every few months ?  then I perceive it's just as good as the the "money in the bank" at ZERO interest, and a whole lot more fun to drive on a nice summer day !
[/quote]

ALWAYS better than money in the bank!