Getting the next generation involved into our Charger addiction

[Troy]

When we look at how the currency has devalued over time and adjust for inflation, then 1500 bucks was a lot of money back in the day, depending on the calender to give us a more specific read on it.

We bought our Barracuda back in 1985, and paid 1500 bucks for it. That was some real little bit of money back then.

And weve still got the car. 

Its all relative. You save your money as a kid instead of buying $60 video games.... i mowed grass and pulled weeds, saved the cash on my own and bought my car. Im tired of hearing that its too expensive. If you gave up the xbox one and 10 new video games, you could damn near   buy a 5.0 mustang in todays world.

I don't think there is enough xbox games to buy or lawns you could mow to save up the money needed. By the time you pay for food/rent/bills... lawns wont even sort that out. Realistically, unless you are earning 100,000 (or close to) per year... a charger is not buyable anymore.

Which puts it back into, either you are well off, or, you had mum and dad (in todays world).

N that is the problem more people are not into these cars. Well, they are, they just cant have them.

That's not even remotely true. I suppose if someone just had to have an OEM restored car and put no effort into it then maybe. There are lots of guys on here who buy something, put a little money and some effort into it and trade up. Or trade other goods/services/labor to get ahead. It takes time and motivation but it's not that freaking hard. I don't make $100k per year and I have eight cars (including two 68 Chargers, two 70 Challengers, a 70 Mach 1, and a 2015 Scat Pack Charger). None of them are top dollar show cars but I don't care as I'd rather drive than clean and collect cheap trophies. Most of those were paid for by selling parts and other cars that I worked for. I got my first job at 15, my first muscle car at 15, and my second muscle car at 16. I worked every day at my job and mowed grass in the summers. I had to pay my own gas and insurance. I was 30 years old before I had a car worth more than $4k and 38 before I bought my first "new" car.

Troy

[alfaitalia]

I'm 50 in a few days (sniff!).....never had a car worth over about $4500 (I will admit to a few new/late motorcycles though!)....always worked my whole life and my parents never gave me a car (or m/c) as they could never have afforded to . I worked to get everything I have and because a nice house to keep my wife and son in is more important than a 440 on the drive that's the way it had to be. Now I'm lucky (for lucky read worked hard/long enough) to have a house on the beach on the South Coast I'm at last at the point where I can ....just about and on a very tight budget for what I want to achieve ...... afford to build the 69 I've wanted since watching the DoH as a kid. Not going to be finished any time soon but it will be built with no help from anyone (paint accepted....the one thing I cant do to any acceptable standard) and with no money borrowed from anywhere. Its a dream come true for a farmers boys from Sussex. And the point is you don't need lots of cash (at least at any one time)to build a project Charger just a bit of talent, imagination and ingenuity along with time and patience......just hope I live long enough to enjoy driving it when I'm done.....!" 

[Offblue]

Haha still discussing expense ... look at it from my point of view, I've got my 68 charger and I live in Canada (Toronto) ... since your car guys you know how much MORE expensive (multiply whatever you know by 1.38 haha) it is for me to own one at my age (24) ... granted I still live at home but buy my own food, insurance, and gas ... without a fancy job (minimum wage). As well as having friends who are doing the exact same in a less beneficial situation. It's discipline and desire, if you want something bad enough you'll find a way.

[c00nhunterjoe]

When we look at how the currency has devalued over time and adjust for inflation, then 1500 bucks was a lot of money back in the day, depending on the calender to give us a more specific read on it.

We bought our Barracuda back in 1985, and paid 1500 bucks for it. That was some real little bit of money back then.

And weve still got the car.  

Its all relative. You save your money as a kid instead of buying $60 video games.... i mowed grass and pulled weeds, saved the cash on my own and bought my car. Im tired of hearing that its too expensive. If you gave up the xbox one and 10 new video games, you could damn near   buy a 5.0 mustang in todays world.

I don't think there is enough xbox games to buy or lawns you could mow to save up the money needed. By the time you pay for food/rent/bills... lawns wont even sort that out. Realistically, unless you are earning 100,000 (or close to) per year... a charger is not buyable anymore.

Which puts it back into, either you are well off, or, you had mum and dad (in todays world).

N that is the problem more people are not into these cars. Well, they are, they just cant have them.

I said 5.0 mustang. 10 x box games and an xbox1 is about 1000 dollars. It shows where the youth of today want their money. 5 yards per week mowed at 20 bucks a yard is dirt cheap and 400 a month.... but that would cut into video game time and involve manual labor.

[G-man]

When we look at how the currency has devalued over time and adjust for inflation, then 1500 bucks was a lot of money back in the day, depending on the calender to give us a more specific read on it.

We bought our Barracuda back in 1985, and paid 1500 bucks for it. That was some real little bit of money back then.

And weve still got the car.  

Its all relative. You save your money as a kid instead of buying $60 video games.... i mowed grass and pulled weeds, saved the cash on my own and bought my car. Im tired of hearing that its too expensive. If you gave up the xbox one and 10 new video games, you could damn near   buy a 5.0 mustang in todays world.

I don't think there is enough xbox games to buy or lawns you could mow to save up the money needed. By the time you pay for food/rent/bills... lawns wont even sort that out. Realistically, unless you are earning 100,000 (or close to) per year... a charger is not buyable anymore.

Which puts it back into, either you are well off, or, you had mum and dad (in todays world).

N that is the problem more people are not into these cars. Well, they are, they just cant have them.

That's not even remotely true. I suppose if someone just had to have an OEM restored car and put no effort into it then maybe. There are lots of guys on here who buy something, put a little money and some effort into it and trade up. Or trade other goods/services/labor to get ahead. It takes time and motivation but it's not that freaking hard. I don't make $100k per year and I have eight cars (including two 68 Chargers, two 70 Challengers, a 70 Mach 1, and a 2015 Scat Pack Charger). None of them are top dollar show cars but I don't care as I'd rather drive than clean and collect cheap trophies. Most of those were paid for by selling parts and other cars that I worked for. I got my first job at 15, my first muscle car at 15, and my second muscle car at 16. I worked every day at my job and mowed grass in the summers. I had to pay my own gas and insurance. I was 30 years old before I had a car worth more than $4k and 38 before I bought my first "new" car.

Troy

I guess to me it makes no sense. A regular 'driver' car costs what, $30,000-$50,000 on average?

The regular wage is around 35,000-40,000 a year.

Rent 300-400 Average. - 15600-20800 Gone out of that 35,000.
100 on food - theres 5000 gone
Fuel - 80 per week average - 4160 gone
Tax - Theres 5000 gone
Car registration + license (all auto related government stuff + insurance) 2000
Bills and other expenses - 2000

Total spent - $33760-38960 depending on the rent situation. (note: 35,000 a year income can not even afford a place that costs 400 a week, which would be considered a decent place not a shack)

So if you earn around 35,000, on the bare minimum you can save 1000 dollars by the end of the year. x that by what, 30 years to buy one car? By the time you save 30,000 the car now worth 30,000 is gonna be 50,000+ which means again you wont have what you need to buy it.

The whole problem is, the amount one can save does not offset the increase in price. You save up 5 years, but the price of car has gone up by the amount you saved, which puts you back at the same spot you were in 5 years ago before you even started saving.

And considering most people don't live on the cheap... those above figures are things that need to be paid. This does not include going to the movies (extra cost) does not include drinking/smoking (Huge cost), does not include going on holidays (costs) etc.

So essentially, live in a box, do nothing all year long, don't go anywhere, no holidays, no new clothes (be happy in old stuff), no buying fun stuff for your partner, cards, gifts, kitchen things etc (literally do not spend on anything except the above things that need to be paid) and at that rate and lifestyle (which nobody has), you might save 1000 dollars by the end of the year.

Good luck buying a charger in this lifetime.  

Now if a decent driver can be had for 15,000-20,000 - Then I agree it can be gotten within a few a years of saving.

So where are these 15k Daily driver chargers?

[Troy]

It's called sacrifice (or being fiscally responsible). I rarely drink, don't smoke, don't go to bars to party every weekend, and repair things rather than buying new. I cook dinners at home and sometime take lunch to work. My TV is almost 10 years old (but works great since I only watch it about 8 hours per week!). Not only that, every now and then I pick up a side job or sell some old parts for extra spending cash. I also don't spend $80 per week on gas or $2,000 per year on insurance. There are ways to have what you want and still pay reasonable amounts (like insurance is dirt cheap on my beat up, paid off, daily driver Tacoma). Earlier in 2016 I bought a 95 4Runner with a blown engine for $800. Yanked off the new wheels and tires and sold them for $400, put on a set of $100 wheels and tires, installed a $300 engine, and sold it for $2,800. Minus a few hundred for parts and fluids I netted $1,700. I'm not a mechanic either! My friend does axles and brakes in his spare time. He also buys beat up Hondas to fix up and sell. He nets about $3,000 per month. Does it cut into time with his family? Yes! Can he manage it? Yes! Another friend of mine works a part time job but has their own house. Free time is most important to them. In order to do that, they drive a sensible used vehicle and cut out any big expenses. To make a little cash they sell hand made coasters at the craft mall for $40 per set (cost is about $3 plus some time).

People these days expect to have cable with all the pay channels, an $800 cell phone with a $50 data plan (plus same for all their kids), eat out every meal, smoke 2 packs a day, drive brand new SUVs, party/entertain every weekend, have manicure, pedicures, and spa days on a regular basis, wear expensive clothes and jewelry, but the latest and greatest entertainment systems every other year, splurge on presents, have 10 pairs of $200 gym shoes just because there's a famous guy's name on them, have motorcycles, quads, snowmobiles, and RVs for recreation, play golf 3 times per week, and on and on but then complain that they are broke. Those are all choices. Having an old car is a choice.

I'm pretty sure there are $15-20k Chargers (and other muscle cars). Could you daily drive them? Dunno, are you a good mechanic? There aren't many $5k Chargers these days but not all of these cars are $50-75k.

Troy

[Dino]

When I worked in auto body I didn't make a ton of money from salary. But I worked every hour of overtime they would give me ad eventually worked 10-12 hours per day for 6 days a week, sometimes I'd throw in a Sunday as well. At the tail end of that career I split a garage with a buddy and we would take on side jobs. I think I made more money after hours than I did at my regular job. I didn't do anything else but work though beause I didn't feel I was entitled to just get this shit handed to me. Nothing comes easy. I'm in one of the roughest spots right now trying to get through one of the hardest graduate programs in the country, but it'll pay off in the end. I'll get that 6 speed trans eventually.   

[Mike DC]

  
Geography plays a role in this stuff.  

Car insurance in LA is a different animal from insurance in a small midwestern town, for example.  

Same with the prices of housing and many other things.  

[G-man]

Explains why in Australia, kids can only dream about getting the car.

Down here by the time you convert 30,000 and ship the car over you are at 55,000.

Living expenses down here (purely things you have to pay for, rent, food, fuel etc) - Not including holidays, drinking, going out, clothes, etc (wants not needs) is pretty much the entire average wage earned.

35,000 Average income. 35,000 average expense = 0. There is no ifs buts or maybes about it. 0 = 0 and for 1000 years your still gonna be on 0 and therefor the car unless free cant be gotten.

So mathematics tells me the younger generation cant afford it unless they are earning over 60,000 a year (higher than average) which would leave them some extra to save after expenses and hopefully by the time they got what they need the car isn't costing 20,000 more than it did before.

So to me that really is the only thing holding back the 'next generation' getting into these cars.

[Dino]

If all you do is work a job that barely pays the bills, then that's what you'll be doing and not much else. So if you want more you need to go beyond working a 9 to 5 job and either work way more hours and/or get a degree so you can earn more salary. Now this easier said than done for a lot of folks, but that's what needs to be done. You can dream all you want, but it won't get you anything more than frustration. The vast majority of people that can afford and enjoy these toys have put in the time and effort.

[Mike DC]

  
This hobby takes more than buying a car.  

You basically need a house or a permanent shop/garage place.  

You can't live in apartment without somewhere else to put it.  And you need somewhere to work on it.  Somewhere to store parts.  Somewhere to take things apart & lay them out.  Etc.

Tools.  I'm not just talking about the Mopar-specific torsion bar removal tool or the upper balljoint socket.  I'm talking about a set of basic wrenches, the channel-lock pliers, the hacksaw.  Etc.  That "little stuff" that you'll end up dumping $1500 into if you had to buy it ALL new today in stores.  And you probably weren't born owning a workbench with a decent vice at one end. 


For most of us this stuff all fits in with our general lifestyle.  But try getting into the classic car hobby without any of it.  And you may not have any friends/family who are into it either.  I have a friend who lives in a big urban city.  He's a gearhead type.  He's been there for years and he still doesn't even know anyone with a pickup truck, much less have his own.   He couldn't hit local garage sales for things like used tools either. 

[Dino]

I was in that same boat for a long time. Big, crowded city with barely room to park let alone find work space or storage. Buying the car was much easier than storing it so it ended up being my daily for years. Life got easier when I moved out of the city.

[G-man]

Good points Dino and Mike.

That is what I was basically getting at. For a regular younger person without all that 'leg up' so to speak... it is near impossible to get without that big paying job which is all I said from the start. Either make over 60,000 a year (choose how) or, have mum and dad cover your food/rent etc while you work for the regular wage to save up to buy one or have parents (like what you guys are) that have these cars and teach your kids how to work on them etc so that one day they can take over.

As much as people want to say they are sick of the whole "costs too much"... sadly, it does for most people.

[Lennard]

This turned out to be a very entertaining topic. 

[Offblue]

Well i guess it is very true for the average joe to not be able to afford one ... but I've been around cars for a while and 100k is honestly something i only ever see in people who buy a rust bucket and need to do a ton of body work, or even a guy who wants a complete nut and bolt rotisserie, or the guy who wants it "built or bought". I have a brother who went through this on his mustang and he's spend well over 100k over 10 years ... acid dip, body work, you name it and even his job isn't that well paying ...

I bought mine for 23k (CAD) and it hardly needs any work, it runs, drives, and stops. Anything i need to do with it now is for sheer pleasure as a hobbyist.

[nakita7]

[/quote]

I guess to me it makes no sense. A regular 'driver' car costs what, $30,000-$50,000 on average?

The regular wage is around 35,000-40,000 a year.

Rent 300-400 Average. - 15600-20800 Gone out of that 35,000.
100 on food - theres 5000 gone
Fuel - 80 per week average - 4160 gone
Tax - Theres 5000 gone
Car registration + license (all auto related government stuff + insurance) 2000
Bills and other expenses - 2000

Total spent - $33760-38960 depending on the rent situation. (note: 35,000 a year income can not even afford a place that costs 400 a week, which would be considered a decent place not a shack)

So if you earn around 35,000, on the bare minimum you can save 1000 dollars by the end of the year. x that by what, 30 years to buy one car? By the time you save 30,000 the car now worth 30,000 is gonna be 50,000+ which means again you wont have what you need to buy it.

The whole problem is, the amount one can save does not offset the increase in price. You save up 5 years, but the price of car has gone up by the amount you saved, which puts you back at the same spot you were in 5 years ago before you even started saving.

And considering most people don't live on the cheap... those above figures are things that need to be paid. This does not include going to the movies (extra cost) does not include drinking/smoking (Huge cost), does not include going on holidays (costs) etc.

So essentially, live in a box, do nothing all year long, don't go anywhere, no holidays, no new clothes (be happy in old stuff), no buying fun stuff for your partner, cards, gifts, kitchen things etc (literally do not spend on anything except the above things that need to be paid) and at that rate and lifestyle (which nobody has), you might save 1000 dollars by the end of the year.

Good luck buying a charger in this lifetime.  

Now if a decent driver can be had for 15,000-20,000 - Then I agree it can be gotten within a few a years of saving.

So where are these 15k Daily driver chargers?




[/quote]

Yep...welcome to life. The average wage in North America is around $37k a year. We spend (more than) a years wage on a vehicle...it's crazy when you step back and think about it.

My kids (who make much more than $37K a year) are aged 22 and 25. They love Chargers like every other person on planet earth, but for them to buy, fix up and maintain one is exactly the same as me being 18 again and trying to get a Dusenberg...

[Baldwinvette77]

When i got my charger i was working at a shop across from my house, i didn't need to drive, pay car insurance or buy fuel, i was still in highschool and almost all the money i made went into my charger, once i started college and then changed jobs it was getting harder to find the time and money to continue it. im not sure i would have been able to do it if i started now 

[cooldude]

Back when us old greybeards started buying the nice Mopars, they werent that old and didnt really need that much work done to them.

Now though, we are dealing with 40 plus year old cars,and a many of what is left unrestored are, well, too far gone.

And lets face it, there arent that many cars from the 80s on up that are interesting enough to bother restoring. Let alone the impossible to find computer stuff from 30 years ago.

I think our hobby is like the sailing ship era in a way, in that it is passing out of time, and wont ever return again.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Good points Dino and Mike.

That is what I was basically getting at. For a regular younger person without all that 'leg up' so to speak... it is near impossible to get without that big paying job which is all I said from the start. Either make over 60,000 a year (choose how) or, have mum and dad cover your food/rent etc while you work for the regular wage to save up to buy one or have parents (like what you guys are) that have these cars and teach your kids how to work on them etc so that one day they can take over.

As much as people want to say they are sick of the whole "costs too much"... sadly, it does for most people.

A 16 year old might not be able to buy a 69 charger today but if he saves his money and works for it, he can afford a hotrod. I just checked craigslist and there are a handful of mustangs and camaros from 79 to 98 that are between 1200 and 3400, all in my local area.
    Im only 32, so im still close enough to the youth of today that money and theories havnt changed that much. If kids today would actually go out and work, its not hard to save money and buy a car. Hell, my 17 year old brother just did it. He works at taco bell, saved his money, and bought a 95 gt mustang with a few bolt on mods done to it. He is tickled pink with it. My 19 year old sister works at taco bell as well, is a full time college student living on campus, and has saved enough money that she just bought a loaded 05 gt mustang as a 2nd car. My parents didnt pay a penny towards either one.
   As far as having your parents teach you how to work on it??? Seriously? Lol. Its called take it apart and put it back together. Read a book, or in todays world, google it and watch a youtube video. You can buy a basic toolkit at walmart for 30 bucks. 50 buys you a nice setup to start tinkering. You dont need snapon to be a weekend warrior. I started with the mopar books and a harbor freight socket set.
     Most kids today are whiny brats that are couch potatoes waiting for their participation trophies. THAT is why hotrods are a dying breed. You have to get up, go outside and god forbid, get your fingers dirty.

[Mike DC]

  
I think it's still possible to be a hot-rodder as a young kid.  But it's much, much harder than it was 25-50 years ago.  

Kids might complain more today.  I don't really know if that's true or not.  But IMO they have more reason to complain than kids used to, both car-wise and life in general.  Having a Playstation & Iphone is a shitty consolation prize for being born into a world of ridiculously overpriced colleges, unworkable modern cars, overpriced classic cars, and half as many good jobs as they need.  

In the next 20 years this hobby is primed for a big, um, well, die-off.  The Baby Boomers' cars won't all stay in the families.  Many of those cars will end up on Ebay.  This may eventually lend the hobby a "second wave" later on.  

[G-man]

 
I think it's still possible to be a hot-rodder as a young kid.  But it's much, much harder than it was 25-50 years ago.  

Kids might complain more today.  I don't really know if that's true or not.  But IMO they have more reason to complain than kids used to, both car-wise and life in general.  Having a Playstation & Iphone is a shitty consolation prize for being born into a world of ridiculously overpriced colleges, unworkable modern cars, overpriced classic cars, and half as many good jobs as they need.    

Very well put.

[Lennard]

Here's a youngster realizing his dream:

http://moparconnectionmagazine.com/finders-keepers-forrest-mackays-1969-dodge-charger-rt-se/?utm_source=MASTER+2&utm_campaign=4e8544011d-JACK-20%25-B%26BB-6%2C761-HP1&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cdb8f8637b-4e8544011d-105760165

[Dino]

Here's a youngster realizing his dream:

http://moparconnectionmagazine.com/finders-keepers-forrest-mackays-1969-dodge-charger-rt-se/?utm_source=MASTER+2&utm_campaign=4e8544011d-JACK-20%25-B%26BB-6%2C761-HP1&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cdb8f8637b-4e8544011d-105760165

Awesome! I can't believe he found the original engine as well.

[Baldwinvette77]

Thats awesome! i really enjoyed reading that 

[Kern Dog]

The money question cuts both ways; this is more about Platonic solids and the persistence of archetypes through the human psyche. When Enzo Ferarri called the E-type the most beautiful car ever made he wasn't being subjective, and what Richard Sias pulled off is just as objectively real. These are things that don't go away, emergent properties of the universe like time and space and our own consciousness.  These are deep waters. If Max Tegmark of MIT can claim that the universe is literally made of numbers, then we can confidently expect that the design of the 2d Gen will always continue to find purchase in the awareness of every generation.

What the heck is all this?

I used to work with a guy that would ramble on like this. Nice guy but a real enthusiast of the rolled herb.