Question about "smoothing over" marker lights...

[nakita7]

...just wondering how that is legal??

Unless the law has changed, vehicles are to have marker lights on the side for visibility and safety, and I am curious how these cars get inspected/safetied and registered? Your thoughts or experience please...

[garner7555]

69 only has reflectors, no lights.   In my state they don't inspect the car so I could delete the taillights, headlights, blinkers, ect. and still get registration.     The law enforcement is the only people to enforce the rules here, and if you "behave" then chances are the cops aren't going to write you up over side reflectors.   

[Lennard]

I deleted mine on my 68. Here in Arizona nobody cares what you do with your vehicle as long as the brakes work.

[Mike DC]

                    
We get away with this stuff mostly by the law's ignorance & indifference.  The late 1960s was so far back that the inspectors usually aren't sure what equipment these cars were built with.  


The front & rear signal lights are the main signals that the law really wants here (those are under the front bumper, and incorporated into the rear taillights).  I think technically you aren't supposed to "remove any safety gear it was originally built with".  But as long as you smooth over the fender/quarter light holes reasonably well, they won't know anything is gone.  

In 1969 Chrysler exploited a loophole in the Federal laws and only used clear reflector lenses in the fender & quarter lights.  They had no bulbs or wiring.  (1968 and 1970-up all had real lights) So a 1969 Charger with those reflectors smoothed over is technically not missing any LIGHTS that it was built with.  

[Kern Dog]

Just like with the emission laws...
The equipment is required to remain in place and functional, but if nobody is testing for compliance, it is moot.
It is like being given a spending limit on a credit card, yet nobody ever checks the balance. Reminds me of Congress.

[PrisonHack]

 Yeah in my state pretty much anything goes as long as you have headlights and tail lights

[Troy]

Each state is different with regards to inspections. Here in Ohio, we don't have to pass any tests. The police can stop you for "equipment" or "safety" violations but that's usually limited to tail light or license plate lights when they're looking for drunk drivers. Most citations I've seen are related to loud/nonexistent exhaust or bumper height (lifted trucks).

Troy

[PrisonHack]

 Yeah same here in Arkansas, I used to be a police officer, we no longer have yearly inspections but we could stop people for cracked windshields ect.

[Old Moparz]

Some cars look good smoothed over but I'd rather have the markers or lights because I don't trust the other idiots on the road & want to be as visible as possible. Having said that, I plan to upgrade any lighting I can to be brighter & better.

If I have to mount a 5000 watt strobe light on the roof I will. 

[HPP]

...just wondering how that is legal??

Unless the law has changed, vehicles are to have marker lights on the side for visibility and safety, and I am curious how these cars get inspected/safetied and registered? Your thoughts or experience please...

Your assuming everyplace has an inspection and that the inspectors are aware of the details around these old car's side markers.

Way back when my local area had safety inspections, I had one idjit inspector that was going to fail my '69 Satellite because the side markers didn't light up. Fortunately, there was someone on site that was old enough to know better and corrected my inspector.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Covering those chrome beautiful working '68 Christmas light side lights is a sin, but if it was a '69, who would care as they are just reflectors.   

[nakita7]

Thanks for all the replies. I understand they can't inspect every vehicle, but when cars go from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, they usually have to pass inspections. Obviously they don't notice these little things.

It's similar to open fenders. All truckers know that they can't run equipment without mudflaps, yet there are lots of jeeps with no fenders and T-buckets/rods out there throwing rocks all over the road. Not trying to change the topic, just wondering what police officers and MOT/Inspection agents can, or are able to do. You have lowriders, cars with shaved (or no) bumpers, etc. and yet the car manufacturers HAD to install safety equipment when they were new or they couldn't sell them on the lots. I know it's not a life or death issue (or, is it?), just wondering if anyone has ever ticketed, or taken off the road for a 'safety equipment' issue?

[Mike DC]

     
It's the general attitude of the govt towards vehicle production.  They are tight about how things can be originally constructed but looser about what the owners do with them. 

It works out well enough.  The vast majority of the cars on the road are pretty safe/clean.  The people who want to spend money modifying them are allowed to.   


The USA totally embraced the "everyone should have a personal car" attitude generations ago, and it remains as true as ever now.  If the vehicle inspection rules were too strict then millions of lower-income people's cars would be failing, which would kick off a bunch of other problems.  This factor plays a role in keeping the inspections relatively loose & basic.   

[alfaitalia]

Really?.... I think not. It just leaves unroadworthy and unsafe cars on the road. In the UK we have to pass this EVERY year...no pass you are off the road. Have a look through.....its quite some test!!
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518634/mot-inspection-manual-for-class-3-4-5-and-7-vehicles.pdf
And that's every State (County here) as in legal terms we are one State so don't have different laws for different regions. So whether you have a $2million super car or run a 80s $200 VW you have to pass the same test (emissions vary based on age of course). Low incomes or not....same test.....you now its coming so put cash aside as needed. Only exceptions are pre 1960 cars which have recently become exempt due to mostly being collectors cars and being a tiny number)....so the first thing I will have to do before my 69 goes on the road is the MOT. Never been a problem here so would prob not be over there. Its reassuring to know that if you know nothing about cars and buy a used one that, as long as its got a fresh MOT that the important bits (lights, brakes, structure, seat belts etc etc etc) at least reach a minimum standard. If you even vaguely look after you car when you have the test done it should not be too difficult to pass. I'm on the JeepForum and when I see some of the structurally unsound Jeeps full of rust and all the owner wants to spend his £1000 is a big lift I have to laugh. This guy wants to carry his family in this and it would probably not survive a head on with a bicycle!! Not all rules are bad and it helps keep us safe on the roads. I still find it amazing that's in some US states you have no inspections at all or just emission's......but then have strict rules on spot lights being covered when not off road!!! I would at least want to know the car my family in is safe. I know we are all car guys and out cars are generally sound......but lots of folks are not!!

We, unlike one or two other Euro Countries, are also allowed to mod as we see fit along as it passes the test....which largely does not concern modded parts as long as they are not dangerous to the driver or other road users.

[Mike DC]

 
If the vehicle sales & safety inspections had been tighter in the USA all these years, there would be far, far fewer classic cars out there to work with now.  The majority of these cars that we restore & modify have been thousands of dollars outside the bounds of any decent inspection at one point or another.  When that happens in a time period before every nut & bolt on it is valuable, the car gets scrapped.   

I'm not saying the safety inspection argument makes no sense.  I'm just saying it has a downside and that downside would probably have decimated this hobby.

Meanwhile, when I look around the roads every day, the vast majority of the cars around me do not look dangerous.  They are mostly 0-15 years old and would probably pass any safety inspection they were given.  Most people drive relatively new cars in unmodified condition and get repairs done by professionals. 

[alfaitalia]

Not the best argument imo...If those cars had been tested each year then they would not have got into such a state in the first place. As for fifteen year old cars passing...well most folks here will start failing on bits and pieces ( tyres, brake and brake hoses etc) after about five years of average mileage driving. I would not not mind betting that we have a higher percentage of classics cars on the road per capita than the US because cars have been looked agree to get then through the test each year....no figures to back that up though..So who knows!

Classic cars in storage or barns etc and not taxed for road use(a nother motoring cost we have here!) ..don't have to have an MOT so we still have barn finds and the odd car rotting away in a field...just like you lol. They rot faster here too thanks to our climate!

[Mike DC]

  

I've seem some real world examples of this.  We've had periods of different laws in many states.  At one point in my state they were failing anything with a 'check engine' light on, or a crack in the glass, etc.  It made at least as many cheap cars get junked as fixed.   It costs money to fix that stuff and that includes labor charges for most people.  These muscle cars were cheap clunkers for a long time before they got past their low-point.  If you make it cost people $500 just to get a $1000 car legal (and that cost won't make it any nicer looking or feeling or lower mileage) then a lot of people start trading up rather than paying for repairs.


And that example was only basic stuff.  If they were demanding things like no rust holes or worn chassis bushings then huge numbers of cars would have been scrapped.

[cbrestorations]

if i ever had to pass a brake and light test, good thing for me on my 69 is all i gotta do is slap a reflective sticker on the side to pass the test and then rip it off lol

[Troy]

Really?.... I think not. It just leaves unroadworthy and unsafe cars on the road. In the UK we have to pass this EVERY year...no pass you are off the road. Have a look through.....its quite some test!!
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518634/mot-inspection-manual-for-class-3-4-5-and-7-vehicles.pdf
And that's every State (County here) as in legal terms we are one State so don't have different laws for different regions. So whether you have a $2million super car or run a 80s $200 VW you have to pass the same test (emissions vary based on age of course). Low incomes or not....same test.....you now its coming so put cash aside as needed. Only exceptions are pre 1960 cars which have recently become exempt due to mostly being collectors cars and being a tiny number)....so the first thing I will have to do before my 69 goes on the road is the MOT. Never been a problem here so would prob not be over there. Its reassuring to know that if you know nothing about cars and buy a used one that, as long as its got a fresh MOT that the important bits (lights, brakes, structure, seat belts etc etc etc) at least reach a minimum standard. If you even vaguely look after you car when you have the test done it should not be too difficult to pass. I'm on the JeepForum and when I see some of the structurally unsound Jeeps full of rust and all the owner wants to spend his £1000 is a big lift I have to laugh. This guy wants to carry his family in this and it would probably not survive a head on with a bicycle!! Not all rules are bad and it helps keep us safe on the roads. I still find it amazing that's in some US states you have no inspections at all or just emission's......but then have strict rules on spot lights being covered when not off road!!! I would at least want to know the car my family in is safe. I know we are all car guys and out cars are generally sound......but lots of folks are not!!

We, unlike one or two other Euro Countries, are also allowed to mod as we see fit along as it passes the test....which largely does not concern modded parts as long as they are not dangerous to the driver or other road users.

Your country is the size of Alabama yet it has about 1/5th the population of the US. There are vast stretches of this country where there's no alternative to having a car if you need transportation (no buses, trains, taxis, etc.). Europe typically has the attitude that people are better off stuffed into cities. Part of the way they can accomplish this is by making it prohibitively expensive to live in sparse areas. Regulations and taxes on vehicles is a particularly good way to accomplish this. Mike's statement above is a very important distinction between the US and many other countries (particularly European ones):

The USA totally embraced the "everyone should have a personal car" attitude generations ago, and it remains as true as ever now.

Is safety a bad thing? Absolutely not! Can it be taken overboard? Fairly often. It's rare that I have seen an accident blamed on the roadworthiness of a car. The vast majority are the result of the ineptitude, incompetence, or inattention of the idiot behind the wheel. But today, cars are so safe that you aren't likely to get seriously injured - which only makes drivers less careful. I can literally do insanely stupid things in my new cars and never feel at risk. Things that would most certainly put me in the hospital or morgue in a vehicle more than 15 years old.

Our society is also turning to "throw away" commodities and there are a HUGE number of new cars sold every year. All those old ones get tossed so there are a very large number of relatively new, safe vehicles on the roads. Yes, sometimes you'll see a rust bucket 4x4 on giant tires with tube bumpers and body parts held on with wire and/or rivets (especially where I live) but, in reality, that may be 1 in 5,000 vehicles. You'll see some (not a LOT) really, really poorly maintained cars out there that typically seem to be driven by criminals, very destitute families, and/or illegal aliens. The police are thankful for the "look at me" signs. Besides, who needs turn signals when 1/3rd of the cars around you have adaptive cruise control and collision avoidance? (Especially when their drivers are reading texts and having breakfast!)

I was just having a discussion the other day about cars from the 80s and how few of them even still exist. There are whole model lines that you just can't even find any more. Those things were so bad and so cheap that no one bothered to fix them AT ALL after the first major break down (and since no one fixed them the junk yards just scrapped them all). I bought my first 1970 Challenger in 1986 for $300 and my first 68 Charger a few months later for $1,100. Crashed (and totaled) the Charger twice and fixed it for less than $400 in used parts. Realize that both were nearly 20 years old at the time and at least 10 years older than Chrysler had expected them to survive. Had there been strict inspections these cars would have been scrapped. My Toyota trucks have 15 year rust through warranties on them right now so that says a little about how manufacturing has changed.

Troy

[phantom]

Up until a year ago this was the opposite case here in Norway. We had to remove the side marker lights or at least disconnect the bulbs to make our imported american cars road legal 

Also, red turn signals was forbidden....dont ask me why. But luckily we had a new government 3 years ago and they fixed a lot of these stupid laws that some morons made many years ago.

[alfaitalia]

Red turn signals are still illegal here....must be converted to amber before taking older US cars on the road....Not difficult to sort though. Some more lenient MOT testers will just let it go....doubt the cops would though!

[6pkrtse]

I prefer the looks of them personally.  That is my least favorite thing about 69's because they are only reflectors.

[charge69]

[Highbanked Hauler]

I deleted mine on my 68. Here in Arizona nobody cares what you do with your vehicle as long as the brakes work.

  Here in North Carolina I could register a stock car if I put lights  and street tires on it. Your more likely to get stopped for not wearing a seat belt..