Firewall holes

[bannedbird]

When did punching holes in the firewall take place: before or after paint?  What instructed a person to put a hole into an RM23 car for Charger style vacuum lines?

Let's assume the holes are put in before paint.  Where would the call out be to punch the holes: broadcast or fender tag?  Would there be a broadcast on the body before painting?  The N85 (Tach) on a fender tag makes sense in a "no b'cast sheet until after paint scenario". Why else put N85 on a metal tag when it is on a b'cast? So based on N85, let's assume no b'cast until after paint

I am guessing, but I see this.  A person at the "hole punching" station before painting station looks at the body tag. He/she scans for Hxx codes for heater and air conditioning holes.  Also for N85 and Charger codes (vacuum head lights).  So what does he/she spot on a Superbird that says to put in a hole for the vacuum lines?  V19? The tag does not call out A13 "superbird".  Maybe the A13 hole comes in after paint?

Anyone have facts? Any photos showing a b'cast on an unpainted body?  Does the top line of fender tag reflect holes needed or are those numbers only production line cart or gate codes? Thx.

[bannedbird]

For reference, the hole question came up on this thread:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,113395.0.html

[charger chris]

The holes was put in when the part was stamped.

[Troy]

The holes was put in when the part was stamped.

I would have expected that too. How many combinations would there have been?

Troy

[bannedbird]

Chris, doing the holes when stamping make perfect sense.

Anyone: Were Chargers made at Lynch Road?  If so, was it same firewall stamping as other B-bodies (i.e. Road Runner)? 

Side question: do the 1969 C500's have the hole in firewall for the headlight vacuum lines?

[5hunert]

Side answer. C500s had the entire vacuum shebang. Creative industries snipped the ends where they passed through the core support and let them dangle. They even left in the vacuum canister under the battery tray.

[charger chris]

As far as I know they was the same. B body is b body. They had the ac fire wall. And non ac as far as the vac hole I believe they they  added that after they was stamped.  Or they had one with that already just for the charger but I wouldn't  think so because of cost of making a new die just for charger.

[bannedbird]

Stamping the Firewalls.
I was thinking the die would be the same for all B-bodies.  Example: You would do a run of 1000 with "normal" holes in firewall.  Then 200 with the A/C holes (you place in a few "inserts" in the single die, or along the progressive die stations).  Then you do another 200 with no A/C but with Tach wire hole.  Then 50 with A/C and Tach holes.  Then a dozen A/C + Tach + Charger firewalls.   Is there a 4-speed vs auto difference in stamping? Did anyone figure the possible combinations yet - lol?  Hold-on... this can be an inventory mess. 

So, making all combinations (or is that permutations?) may not be desired.  Maybe stamp heater and the 90% common holes in the firewalls, but every hole option?  I'd be voting on putting the A/C holes (what could it be: 1 out of 50 had A/C?) in on the assembly line once a car was tagged with options.  Then pop in the other holes needed after welding.  This "on-line" hole popping is supported by the dimples where optional holes be located. 

I have no facts for this other than my idea of logistics, so maybe every hole WAS done during the stamping of firewall.  Any photos of the welding of the unit bodies circa 1969-1970?  Who is the photo historian? Didn't a wing club web site have an interview that followed the cars down the assembly line? Any mention there? Thx.

[charger chris]

I.am.not sure but all.the fire.Wal.are.the same but there are some.that had AC and some that had a tac hole.  But I do know that if you restamp metal it disstores the metal and you would see the add on the metal that was 1pressed.

[Redbird]

David Patik's excellent written description of how a Superbird was built is pretty much the definitive article on construction. Find it on the Winged Warrior web site.

David's article explains the firewall  of a AC car and a non AC car.

Once you read David's article you'll understand you'll how a B body was framed. I do not believe anyone else has come even close in detailing the assembly line process.

I don't believe there are any videos of a Superbird being built.

There is a Chrysler/Plymouth commercial with Arthur Godfrey showing a Plymouth Cricket being framed in the U K it is available on you tube.

[bannedbird]

Redbird: thanks! I thought I had read something like that before- that was the place (wwnboa.org/patik.htm). It makes sense how they did it.

[white]

When I first seen this thread I though is was about internet security.